Yup, I'm saying the end is too low Jerry. It droops down--by design apparently because no mods have been made to either the tiller or the cheek plates or the location of the pin the tiller lands on in the working position. I agree that ideally the end of the tiller should clear one's legs, and that the stick itself should run parallel with the seats. I like the idea that the length be added to butt or cheek plate end, and that the stick comes unfinished so we can trim it off to suit our personal requirements. For the record, I don't like the idea of an extension. Too complicated and there's potentially a weak point at the joint. But that's just me. Also for the record, I've never thought you were a bad asshole. t Tom Smith & Jane VanWinkle M15/345--Chukar M17/064--Unamed