Many years ago while living aboard on Chuckanut Bay I would hang my dirty pots and pans on lanyards off the stern. Not only did the fish clean them for me, but I had little problem with kiting. Sent from my iPad
On Apr 24, 2014, at 12:35 PM, montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com wrote:
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Today's Topics:
1. Avoiding Kiting at Anchor (David Grah) 2. Buying Aviation Fuel (David Grah) 3. Re: Avoiding Kiting at Anchor (stevetrapp) 4. Re: Jib Sheet Length (Wilson Frye) 5. Re: Avoiding Kiting at Anchor (Wilson Frye) 6. Re: Avoiding Kiting at Anchor (Bill Day) 7. Re: Avoiding Kiting at Anchor (Wilson Frye) 8. Re: Avoiding Kiting at Anchor (Larry Yake) 9. Kiting at anchor (Thomas Buzzi) 10. Jib sheets (Thomas Buzzi) 11. Re: Jib sheets (Wilson Frye) 12. Re: Jib sheets (Thomas Buzzi) 13. Re: Buying Aviation Fuel (speedernut2@gmail.com) 14. restoration process of #44 - Keel way worse than thought (Sean Mulligan) 15. Re: Avoiding Kiting at Anchor (Sean Mulligan) 16. Re: Avoiding Kiting at Anchor (Tom Jenkins) 17. Re: Avoiding Kiting at Anchor (Conbert Benneck) 18. Re: Avoiding Kiting at Anchor (Thomas Buzzi)
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Message: 1 Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2014 17:55:05 -0700 (PDT) From: David Grah <d_b_grah@yahoo.com> To: "montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: M_Boats: Avoiding Kiting at Anchor Message-ID: <1398300905.66286.YahooMailNeo@web125206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
This is my third and final "dumb wheel" question for the group this evening.
I have spend a lot of nights on my Montgomery 15.? Most of the time the wind has died in the evening so it has been close to calm overnight.? A few times it has blown all night but I as secured by lines to different parts of the boat from more than one place off the boat. A time or two the wind has blown during the night and I have been at anchor and the boat has moved all over the place, back and forth, all night, which I think is called kiting.
I think I remember a group discussion about this and I think it was suggested that, assuming the anchor line is secured near the bow of the boat, that running a second line from the anchor line to near the stern so that the boat is kept at an angle to the wind reduces or eliminates the kiting.? I have found I am not very successful finding things in the group archives including not finding this discussion on how to deal with kiting.? So I thought I would ask the group this third question and see if anyone could detail a good process to deal with kiting with a second line from the anchor line to the stern of the boat.? The ways I can think of to attach this second line to the anchor line do not seem elegant, to say the least.
Thanks much!
David Grah Bishop California Montgomery 15 Serial 369 "Sky"
------------------------------
Message: 2 Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2014 18:27:08 -0700 (PDT) From: David Grah <d_b_grah@yahoo.com> To: "montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: M_Boats: Buying Aviation Fuel Message-ID: <1398302828.40069.YahooMailNeo@web125201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Most small general aviation airports have self serve 100 octane low lead aviation fuel available 24 hours per day.? The 100 octane sounds great but I think it is measured differently so that doesn't mean it is 13 octane points higher than regular auto gas.? In fact my plane would prefer 87 auto gas to the 100 low lead because it doesn't have the lead in it and is otherwise similar - except for the possibility of getting alcohol in it.
Anyway, back to the self serve pumps.? If you want to get aviation fuel that way you will just need to pretend you are a plane.? The pump will ask you if you grounded the plane and then you swipe your card.? It may ask if you want 100 low lead or jet fuel (kerosene, essentially) and whether you want a set amount or fill up.? Turn on the pump, pump the gas, turn off the pump, get your receipt.? That's about it.? I do it all the time in my plane at small airports all over the place.? The security at more urban airports may make it harder to drive to the pumps.
David Grah Bishop California
------------------------------
Message: 3 Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2014 18:28:14 -0700 From: "stevetrapp" <stevetrapp@q.com> To: "David Grah" <d_b_grah@yahoo.com>, "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Avoiding Kiting at Anchor Message-ID: <55C3D0EDDB184158B52476C7F1C8A2F0@STEVEEW> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
David, Thank you for changing the subject line on your e-mail to the subject you are actually discussing. I get weary of opening M-boat e-mails with a subject line indicating thing-a-jigs, but the discussion is about whatch-ma-callits. I like to have an approximate idea about the subject before I read half of it. I also want to encourage to feel free to ask questions, they are not "dumb wheel", but questions to which many of us appreciate answers. The only dumb question is one that is not asked. Steve M-15 # 335
----- Original Message ----- From: "David Grah" <d_b_grah@yahoo.com> To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2014 5:55 PM Subject: M_Boats: Avoiding Kiting at Anchor
This is my third and final "dumb wheel" question for the group this evening.
I have spend a lot of nights on my Montgomery 15. Most of the time the wind has died in the evening so it has been close to calm overnight. A few times it has blown all night but I as secured by lines to different parts of the boat from more than one place off the boat. A time or two the wind has blown during the night and I have been at anchor and the boat has moved all over the place, back and forth, all night, which I think is called kiting.
I think I remember a group discussion about this and I think it was suggested that, assuming the anchor line is secured near the bow of the boat, that running a second line from the anchor line to near the stern so that the boat is kept at an angle to the wind reduces or eliminates the kiting. I have found I am not very successful finding things in the group archives including not finding this discussion on how to deal with kiting. So I thought I would ask the group this third question and see if anyone could detail a good process to deal with kiting with a second line from the anchor line to the stern of the boat. The ways I can think of to attach this second line to the anchor line do not seem elegant, to say the least.
Thanks much!
David Grah Bishop California Montgomery 15 Serial 369 "Sky"
------------------------------
Message: 4 Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2014 20:57:08 -0500 From: Wilson Frye <fryewe@me.com> To: David Grah <d_b_grah@yahoo.com>, For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Jib Sheet Length Message-ID: <31F82E19-D120-4DF5-A4FA-8B53697E40D9@me.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Jib sheets should be sized so that lazy sheet will still be available at its station (the winch or cleat) when the working sheet and jib clew are farthest from that station (for the 85 and storm jib that would be when on a run).
On Apr 23, 2014, at 7:52 PM, David Grah <d_b_grah@yahoo.com> wrote:
This is the first of three questions I have for the group this evening. I hope I can avoid "reinventing the wheel" when others here have probably already dealt with these questions. I also hope you all consider these questions with the attitude there are no dumb questions.
I am the proud owner of a new storm jib and 85% jib for my Montgomery 15 from Elliot Pattison Sailmakers. I have 5/16 inch (per this group) line for jib sheets and need to figure out how long to make the sheets for these new sails. I am not certain the sheets on my regular jib are the "right" length.
It seems to me the sheets should be long enough that the jib can be let out at least to be perpendicular to the center line of the boat. I could also see going longer than that so the jib could actually be forward of the forestay but then I wonder if the sheets would be too long most of the time.
Does anyone have a suggestion on how to determine the best length for jib sheets? Thanks for the wisdom and opinions too.
David Grah Bishop California Montgomery 15 Serial 369 "Sky"
------------------------------
Message: 5 Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2014 21:02:54 -0500 From: Wilson Frye <fryewe@me.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Avoiding Kiting at Anchor Message-ID: <88B6BD6D-6C56-4CDB-B687-DC7D1F3AA21B@me.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
The second line is attached to a snatch block that is placed on on the rode. The second line is attached to the windward quarter and the rode payed out while taking up on the line until the wind broad is on the bow.
On Apr 23, 2014, at 8:28 PM, stevetrapp <stevetrapp@q.com> wrote:
David, Thank you for changing the subject line on your e-mail to the subject you are actually discussing. I get weary of opening M-boat e-mails with a subject line indicating thing-a-jigs, but the discussion is about whatch-ma-callits. I like to have an approximate idea about the subject before I read half of it. I also want to encourage to feel free to ask questions, they are not "dumb wheel", but questions to which many of us appreciate answers. The only dumb question is one that is not asked. Steve M-15 # 335
----- Original Message ----- From: "David Grah" <d_b_grah@yahoo.com> To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2014 5:55 PM Subject: M_Boats: Avoiding Kiting at Anchor
This is my third and final "dumb wheel" question for the group this evening.
I have spend a lot of nights on my Montgomery 15. Most of the time the wind has died in the evening so it has been close to calm overnight. A few times it has blown all night but I as secured by lines to different parts of the boat from more than one place off the boat. A time or two the wind has blown during the night and I have been at anchor and the boat has moved all over the place, back and forth, all night, which I think is called kiting.
I think I remember a group discussion about this and I think it was suggested that, assuming the anchor line is secured near the bow of the boat, that running a second line from the anchor line to near the stern so that the boat is kept at an angle to the wind reduces or eliminates the kiting. I have found I am not very successful finding things in the group archives including not finding this discussion on how to deal with kiting. So I thought I would ask the group this third question and see if anyone could detail a good process to deal with kiting with a second line from the anchor line to the stern of the boat. The ways I can think of to attach this second line to the anchor line do not seem elegant, to say the least.
Thanks much!
David Grah Bishop California Montgomery 15 Serial 369 "Sky"
------------------------------
Message: 6 Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2014 21:03:39 -0500 From: Bill Day <bill@gotrain.org> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Avoiding Kiting at Anchor Message-ID: <CABVZyiOjO1q3Bz9mRbVWtOi0fnUE_WHVaquvt2oGYfUPhtGkKA@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
I also want to encourage to feel free to ask questions, they are not "dumb wheel", but questions to which many of us appreciate answers. The only dumb question is one that is not asked. Steve
I don't know about that Steve. I once asked my ex-wife, "Will you marry me?" Even a face palm couldn't undo that question.
Bill "C" Day
M-15, "Gee Whiz!", 363
On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 8:28 PM, stevetrapp <stevetrapp@q.com> wrote:
David, Thank you for changing the subject line on your e-mail to the subject you are actually discussing. I get weary of opening M-boat e-mails with a subject line indicating thing-a-jigs, but the discussion is about whatch-ma-callits. I like to have an approximate idea about the subject before I read half of it. I also want to encourage to feel free to ask questions, they are not "dumb wheel", but questions to which many of us appreciate answers. The only dumb question is one that is not asked. Steve M-15 # 335
----- Original Message ----- From: "David Grah" <d_b_grah@yahoo.com> To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2014 5:55 PM Subject: M_Boats: Avoiding Kiting at Anchor
This is my third and final "dumb wheel" question for the group this evening.
I have spend a lot of nights on my Montgomery 15. Most of the time the wind has died in the evening so it has been close to calm overnight. A few times it has blown all night but I as secured by lines to different parts of the boat from more than one place off the boat. A time or two the wind has blown during the night and I have been at anchor and the boat has moved all over the place, back and forth, all night, which I think is called kiting.
I think I remember a group discussion about this and I think it was suggested that, assuming the anchor line is secured near the bow of the boat, that running a second line from the anchor line to near the stern so that the boat is kept at an angle to the wind reduces or eliminates the kiting. I have found I am not very successful finding things in the group archives including not finding this discussion on how to deal with kiting. So I thought I would ask the group this third question and see if anyone could detail a good process to deal with kiting with a second line from the anchor line to the stern of the boat. The ways I can think of to attach this second line to the anchor line do not seem elegant, to say the least.
Thanks much!
David Grah Bishop California Montgomery 15 Serial 369 "Sky"
------------------------------
Message: 7 Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2014 21:03:43 -0500 From: Wilson Frye <fryewe@me.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Avoiding Kiting at Anchor Message-ID: <E7DB5C83-1D9C-45B4-8C91-57E447C8CCE5@me.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Why not use your new storm jib as a riding sail?
On Apr 23, 2014, at 8:28 PM, stevetrapp <stevetrapp@q.com> wrote:
David, Thank you for changing the subject line on your e-mail to the subject you are actually discussing. I get weary of opening M-boat e-mails with a subject line indicating thing-a-jigs, but the discussion is about whatch-ma-callits. I like to have an approximate idea about the subject before I read half of it. I also want to encourage to feel free to ask questions, they are not "dumb wheel", but questions to which many of us appreciate answers. The only dumb question is one that is not asked. Steve M-15 # 335
----- Original Message ----- From: "David Grah" <d_b_grah@yahoo.com> To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2014 5:55 PM Subject: M_Boats: Avoiding Kiting at Anchor
This is my third and final "dumb wheel" question for the group this evening.
I have spend a lot of nights on my Montgomery 15. Most of the time the wind has died in the evening so it has been close to calm overnight. A few times it has blown all night but I as secured by lines to different parts of the boat from more than one place off the boat. A time or two the wind has blown during the night and I have been at anchor and the boat has moved all over the place, back and forth, all night, which I think is called kiting.
I think I remember a group discussion about this and I think it was suggested that, assuming the anchor line is secured near the bow of the boat, that running a second line from the anchor line to near the stern so that the boat is kept at an angle to the wind reduces or eliminates the kiting. I have found I am not very successful finding things in the group archives including not finding this discussion on how to deal with kiting. So I thought I would ask the group this third question and see if anyone could detail a good process to deal with kiting with a second line from the anchor line to the stern of the boat. The ways I can think of to attach this second line to the anchor line do not seem elegant, to say the least.
Thanks much!
David Grah Bishop California Montgomery 15 Serial 369 "Sky"
------------------------------
Message: 8 Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2014 19:33:51 -0700 From: Larry Yake <larryyake@gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Avoiding Kiting at Anchor Message-ID: <CANjZbomBSM71CAtt66D-E4ni9_TPQ=gSb7+uD9g8E-=-qcifPw@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
I've tried an anchor riding sail on my M17 CornDog without much success. The mounting position on the backstay above the bridle puts it too high up and too far forward. I've also experimented with the technique of running a line from a stern cleat to the anchor line with the objective of holding the boat on one "tack" so to speak. It's pretty easy to rig, but only works well if the wind is steady. I've found that shifting or gusting winds will still swing the boat to the other tack and then you have a bit of a mess with your stern line now going under the boat. You can rig it by simply pulling in your anchor line the desired amount, tying your stern line to it with what I call a clinch knot ( similar to a prussik), letting it back out and then adjusting the angle at the stern cleat. But again, only effective is a steady wind. About the only thing I've found that works real well is to run a stern line to shore if you can get in close enough. Good luck.
Larry
On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 7:03 PM, Wilson Frye <fryewe@me.com> wrote:
Why not use your new storm jib as a riding sail?
On Apr 23, 2014, at 8:28 PM, stevetrapp <stevetrapp@q.com> wrote:
David, Thank you for changing the subject line on your e-mail to the subject you are actually discussing. I get weary of opening M-boat e-mails with a subject line indicating thing-a-jigs, but the discussion is about whatch-ma-callits. I like to have an approximate idea about the subject before I read half of it. I also want to encourage to feel free to ask questions, they are not "dumb wheel", but questions to which many of us appreciate answers. The only dumb question is one that is not asked. Steve M-15 # 335
----- Original Message ----- From: "David Grah" <d_b_grah@yahoo.com> To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2014 5:55 PM Subject: M_Boats: Avoiding Kiting at Anchor
This is my third and final "dumb wheel" question for the group this evening.
I have spend a lot of nights on my Montgomery 15. Most of the time the wind has died in the evening so it has been close to calm overnight. A few times it has blown all night but I as secured by lines to different parts of the boat from more than one place off the boat. A time or two the wind has blown during the night and I have been at anchor and the boat has moved all over the place, back and forth, all night, which I think is called kiting.
I think I remember a group discussion about this and I think it was suggested that, assuming the anchor line is secured near the bow of the boat, that running a second line from the anchor line to near the stern so that the boat is kept at an angle to the wind reduces or eliminates the kiting. I have found I am not very successful finding things in the group archives including not finding this discussion on how to deal with kiting. So I thought I would ask the group this third question and see if anyone could detail a good process to deal with kiting with a second line from the anchor line to the stern of the boat. The ways I can think of to attach this second line to the anchor line do not seem elegant, to say the least.
Thanks much!
David Grah Bishop California Montgomery 15 Serial 369 "Sky"
------------------------------
Message: 9 Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2014 22:12:20 -0500 From: Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: M_Boats: Kiting at anchor Message-ID: <CA+TbpAV69ByXsNSRAxCP95qXGVDwK1U+Pk_AaVW_J7=XDKnwXA@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Saw a picture once of a boat using a "riding sail" to keep its bow into the wind while at anchor. Perhaps a small triangular sail big enough to keep the aft end away from the wind "weathervane style" would work. It could be fairly small, maybe two feet on the luff with its clue cringle attached to the outhaul fitting at the end of the boom, its head attached to the main halyard, or the line that holds up the boom when the main is douced, and its tack tied to the boom with a small looped line. The boom in turn held amid ships by the main sheet cleated off properly.
------------------------------
Message: 10 Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2014 22:32:02 -0500 From: Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: M_Boats: Jib sheets Message-ID: <CA+TbpAUef41fPHVAyyYGt99z7ZuH3ti_nWmYiEupJsApk8fHRA@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
David, To Wilson's advice I would add--then add about 7 feet to the length. You will need line length to add a splice and you will need some extra length to handle the line at the cockpit end of things. This advice comes from someone who bought a 25' rope/wire halyard for a Montgomery 17 in 1982, at great expense and then cut it 25 feet long for a mast that was 25 feet tall. Think about that. This from a fellow that lost his whole rig because the outhaul line he used was two feet too short and he had to stand up in the stern of his boat in rough water to reach the cleat to adjust it, fell overboard, grabbed the only thing he could, the end of that outhaul line and pulled the whole mast in after him with a nifty 75 degree bend right at the spreaders. Moral, better several feet too long than even an inch too short.
Tom B, Mont.17 (the second) #258, 77'
------------------------------
Message: 11 Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2014 22:40:27 -0500 From: Wilson Frye <fryewe@me.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Jib sheets Message-ID: <18DA8038-F16C-4C91-A4CA-654626FCA387@me.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
Tom?that?s a SAD story?
On Apr 23, 2014, at 10:32 PM, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:
David, To Wilson's advice I would add--then add about 7 feet to the length. You will need line length to add a splice and you will need some extra length to handle the line at the cockpit end of things. This advice comes from someone who bought a 25' rope/wire halyard for a Montgomery 17 in 1982, at great expense and then cut it 25 feet long for a mast that was 25 feet tall. Think about that. This from a fellow that lost his whole rig because the outhaul line he used was two feet too short and he had to stand up in the stern of his boat in rough water to reach the cleat to adjust it, fell overboard, grabbed the only thing he could, the end of that outhaul line and pulled the whole mast in after him with a nifty 75 degree bend right at the spreaders. Moral, better several feet too long than even an inch too short.
Tom B, Mont.17 (the second) #258, 77'
------------------------------
Message: 12 Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2014 02:05:02 -0500 From: Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Jib sheets Message-ID: <CA+TbpAUsv+Vs=PUfbVW0wRC+60yLEOy7Msd=ya+i_WyP05fj3w@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
It could have been worse, I had brand new contact lenses in that day and they could have been lost when I dunked overboard. As it was I kept my eyes shut and when I came up under the sail I was able to feel my way to the edge of it and get to the surface.
On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 10:40 PM, Wilson Frye <fryewe@me.com> wrote:
Tom?that?s a SAD story?
On Apr 23, 2014, at 10:32 PM, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:
David, To Wilson's advice I would add--then add about 7 feet to the length. You will need line length to add a splice and you will need some extra length to handle the line at the cockpit end of things. This advice comes from someone who bought a 25' rope/wire halyard for a Montgomery 17 in 1982, at great expense and then cut it 25 feet long for a mast that was 25 feet tall. Think about that. This from a fellow that lost his whole rig because the outhaul line he used was two feet too short and he had to stand up in the stern of his boat in rough water to reach the cleat to adjust it, fell overboard, grabbed the only thing he could, the end of that outhaul line and pulled the whole mast in after him with a nifty 75 degree bend right at the spreaders. Moral, better several feet too long than even an inch too short.
Tom B, Mont.17 (the second) #258, 77'
------------------------------
Message: 13 Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2014 08:01:13 -0400 From: <speedernut2@gmail.com> To: "David Grah" <d_b_grah@yahoo.com>, "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Buying Aviation Fuel Message-ID: <F40F49FA38304048BF89EC1B68C00A58@ultrabookPC> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original
I would like to add to the av-gas comments.
I would really avoid using so-called 100 LL. We have forgotten the problems created by lead in the fuel and our little engines are not designed for it. Granted most of us don't burn enough to matter, but lead deposits can gum the rings in all and foul the oil in your 4-stroke in a hurry. To say nothing of the plug. Try and stay with 87 octane "auto-gas".
If I was looking to buy fuel at an airport I would start at Airnav. A little weird to find your way around at first. Find an airport, then scroll down to see what fuel is available. Should also give hours attended and other info to save you a wasted trip.
The pertinent links:
Just remember.....buy your gas and leave. If you start hanging around at the picnic table watching planes you could end up with a whole new addiction.
Mike (recovering)
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Message: 14 Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2014 08:58:35 -0700 From: Sean Mulligan <nebwest2@aol.com> To: "montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: M_Boats: restoration process of #44 - Keel way worse than thought Message-ID: <D72A88BE-3F99-48EB-BEB4-95B539904BD3@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
yeah....it's bad...LOL Click for the link to see the progress and plan
http://forum.trailersailor.com/post.php?id=1378892
Sent from my iPad
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Message: 15 Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2014 09:20:10 -0700 From: Sean Mulligan <nebwest2@aol.com> To: "montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Avoiding Kiting at Anchor Message-ID: <B6E39FB7-634E-49AC-9B6D-A9D03A89F41B@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Haven't used a riding sail....but I have tried the same thing as Larry, running a line from a stern cleat to the anchor line and adjusting length to try to keep boat from tacking. I got the same less than satisfactory results. I did find that trailing the inflatable astern does tend to calm the boat down a bit but in a crowded anchorage..it is probably not going to be very appreciated. When some inattentive bonehead runs over the painter...well....that will probably be worse than tacking back and forth...LOL
Sent from my iPad
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Message: 16 Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2014 09:59:43 -0700 From: Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Avoiding Kiting at Anchor Message-ID: <B76215B6-1FA2-4B9F-AF22-87D963365B1B@gte.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
Directing the rode through the tow eye with a caribiner should reduce the complexity of motion (at least it worked on my Nor?Sea), but it won?t stop the kiting per se. Might it be possible to deploy some type of parachute (like a storm anchor) on a float off the stern? Of course, a stern anchor is ideal for crowded anchorages and stops most of the kiting as well, but they take some work to deploy without a dinghy.
On Apr 24, 2014, at 9:20 AM, Sean Mulligan <nebwest2@aol.com> wrote:
Haven't used a riding sail....but I have tried the same thing as Larry, running a line from a stern cleat to the anchor line and adjusting length to try to keep boat from tacking. I got the same less than satisfactory results. I did find that trailing the inflatable astern does tend to calm the boat down a bit but in a crowded anchorage..it is probably not going to be very appreciated. When some inattentive bonehead runs over the painter...well....that will probably be worse than tacking back and forth...LOL
Sent from my iPad
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Message: 17 Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2014 12:29:23 -0500 From: Conbert Benneck <chbenneck@gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Avoiding Kiting at Anchor Message-ID: <535949F3.6000201@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
On 24-Apr-14 11:59 AM, Tom Jenkins wrote:
Hi gang,
Things get even more interesting if you have tide changes to worry about.
Suggestions I have read about and had contemplated trying out were:
- Add a heavy weight on a line so that it can easily be retrieved, to your anchor rode. This is called a traveler, and it serves to: A) keep the pull on your anchor horizontal (also the reason why you want several feet of chain at the anchor). The Traveler effectively shortens the anchor rode scope, thereby cutting down the amount of yawing that the boat can do. B) Attaching the anchor rode to the winch eye at the waterline, will also help to reduce yawing. C) The riding sail at the stern does work well (and is why long distance cruisers like ketches and yawls - they set the mizzen sail, and sleep comfortably) but the problem is it has to be as far aft as possible. On an M15 it would mean fastening the clew of the sail to the end of the boom; having some place to put the tack fitting; and using the main halyard to hold it in position. Of course, the boom has to be fastened to each corner of the transom so that it can't move. A version of this approach is to have a riding sail that is "Vee shaped" with the leading edge forward, and the two "wings" of the sail going P/S to the stern . This improves the riding sail action in holding the bow to the wind D) Another thing that works is a pail on a lanyard hung over the stern and cleated off. The pail is full of water, hangs straight down so it doesn't attract propellers, and acts as a brake to keep the stern from swinging back and forth as soon as the boat tries to move.
Happy playing with the ideas,
Connie
Directing the rode through the tow eye with a caribiner should reduce the complexity of motion (at least it worked on my Nor?Sea), but it won?t stop the kiting per se. Might it be possible to deploy some type of parachute (like a storm anchor) on a float off the stern? Of course, a stern anchor is ideal for crowded anchorages and stops most of the kiting as well, but they take some work to deploy without a dinghy.
On Apr 24, 2014, at 9:20 AM, Sean Mulligan <nebwest2@aol.com> wrote:
Haven't used a riding sail....but I have tried the same thing as Larry, running a line from a stern cleat to the anchor line and adjusting length to try to keep boat from tacking. I got the same less than satisfactory results. I did find that trailing the inflatable astern does tend to calm the boat down a bit but in a crowded anchorage..it is probably not going to be very appreciated. When some inattentive bonehead runs over the painter...well....that will probably be worse than tacking back and forth...LOL
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Message: 18 Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2014 12:34:31 -0500 From: Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Avoiding Kiting at Anchor Message-ID: <CA+TbpAU8bGMJdzcdbQtA9QJVZ7SkFZy1UciM=rFQWo2AU4M6fQ@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
The pail off the stern sounds like the "biggest bang for the buck".
On Thu, Apr 24, 2014 at 12:29 PM, Conbert Benneck <chbenneck@gmail.com>wrote:
On 24-Apr-14 11:59 AM, Tom Jenkins wrote:
Hi gang,
Things get even more interesting if you have tide changes to worry about.
Suggestions I have read about and had contemplated trying out were:
- Add a heavy weight on a line so that it can easily be retrieved, to your anchor rode. This is called a traveler, and it serves to: A) keep the pull on your anchor horizontal (also the reason why you want several feet of chain at the anchor). The Traveler effectively shortens the anchor rode scope, thereby cutting down the amount of yawing that the boat can do. B) Attaching the anchor rode to the winch eye at the waterline, will also help to reduce yawing. C) The riding sail at the stern does work well (and is why long distance cruisers like ketches and yawls - they set the mizzen sail, and sleep comfortably) but the problem is it has to be as far aft as possible. On an M15 it would mean fastening the clew of the sail to the end of the boom; having some place to put the tack fitting; and using the main halyard to hold it in position. Of course, the boom has to be fastened to each corner of the transom so that it can't move. A version of this approach is to have a riding sail that is "Vee shaped" with the leading edge forward, and the two "wings" of the sail going P/S to the stern . This improves the riding sail action in holding the bow to the wind D) Another thing that works is a pail on a lanyard hung over the stern and cleated off. The pail is full of water, hangs straight down so it doesn't attract propellers, and acts as a brake to keep the stern from swinging back and forth as soon as the boat tries to move.
Happy playing with the ideas,
Connie
Directing the rode through the tow eye with a caribiner should reduce the complexity of motion (at least it worked on my Nor?Sea), but it won?t stop the kiting per se. Might it be possible to deploy some type of parachute (like a storm anchor) on a float off the stern? Of course, a stern anchor is ideal for crowded anchorages and stops most of the kiting as well, but they take some work to deploy without a dinghy.
On Apr 24, 2014, at 9:20 AM, Sean Mulligan <nebwest2@aol.com> wrote:
Haven't used a riding sail....but I have tried the same thing as Larry,
running a line from a stern cleat to the anchor line and adjusting length to try to keep boat from tacking. I got the same less than satisfactory results. I did find that trailing the inflatable astern does tend to calm the boat down a bit but in a crowded anchorage..it is probably not going to be very appreciated. When some inattentive bonehead runs over the painter...well....that will probably be worse than tacking back and forth...LOL
Sent from my iPad
------------------------------
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End of montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 134, Issue 19 *************************************************