M_Boats: M17 foam floatation

27 Feb 2008

      Hi folks:

I have a '78 M17... no foam floatation. Because of the displacement (appx
1550 lbs, plus, maybe, 450 lbs for a battery, motor, my not-so-svelte self,
and misc gear), it would require a large amount of foam.

How much? ( I'm doing this from memory, so I might not get it right, but...
) Water weighs about 64 lbs per cubic foot, so dividing 2000/64= 31 cubic
feet of foam, BUT... that's the amount of foam needed to float her on the
design waterline. If you filled the boat with foam, it'd probably come to a
foot above the cabin sole.

You don't need that much foam to float a swamped boat, but I believe
conventional practice is to use anywhere from 50-70% of that number. (One of
my books says that reductions of 30-70 percent are possible.) So you'd still
need 15 cu feet at minimum, and it would have to be distributed correctly...
if you stuck it all under the V-berth, the boat might float, but it also
might roll over with just the bow above water... not a good situation in a
storm.

That's why most larger, heavier boats don't have built-in floatation... it
usually requires too much interior space to be practical. I suppose it would
be possible to do it on a 17, 'cause there's plenty of dead space in the
after end and some under the V-berth, but it would take a lot of space. And
getting the calculation wrong might mean the difference in just barely
floating above water and sinking to the bottom VERY slowly.

Best
BG

-- 
Brian Gilbert
Author, Fix It And Sail, The Complete Trailer-Sailor
Marine Media
3404 Hartford Dr
Chattanooga, TN 37415
www.sailingsmall.com

From: montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com
Reply-To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 00:25:06 +0000
To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com
Subject: montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 60, Issue 24

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Today's Topics:

  1. Havasu Winter 2008 Event (Steve R.)
  2. Re: wet lockers (William Larson)
  3. Re: wet lockers (JDavies104@aol.com)
  4. Re: wet lockers (Gary M Hyde)
  5. Re: wet lockers (Gary M Hyde)
  6. Interior of an M15 (W David Scobie)
  7. Re: montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 60, Issue 23 (Ben Smith)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 16:35:29 -0800
From: "Steve R." <stever707@mail.saabnet.com>
Subject: M_Boats: Havasu Winter 2008 Event
To: " For and about Montgomery Sailboats"
 <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>
Cc: Sean  <Nebwest2@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20080226163529.57C299AA@resin17.mta.everyone.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

We are back home and had a wonderful time on Lake Havasu.  It was nice to
meet the M-boaters, P-boaters and other boaters.  I regret that some were
not able to come and some could not get out on the water.  You were missed.
The weather was pleasant, although with little wind Saturday, and often
times there were no other boats in sight.  Sean and Jo were great hosts.
Thanks for shuttling everyone around and organizing the event.

steve

Steve R.
M-15 #119
Lexington, KY

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 16:37:47 -0800 (PST)
From: William Larson <deuce3window@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: M_Boats: wet lockers
To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats
 <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>
Message-ID: <688485.75788.qm@web82908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Dave:
 You're right on the M17 - no foam floatation. I have tried on occasion to
bury the lee rail on a beam reach without success. Perhaps no need for the
foam flotation in that it's stiffer than M15? Maybe some of our "seasoned"
skippers can chime in on this one.
 Bill Larson M17 #632

W David Scobie <wdscobie@yahoo.com> wrote:
 ben:

the M15 has 'positive flotation' in the form of foam blocks installed at the
factory. the two foam locations are: under the cockpit floor, in the bow (in
a screwed shut locker).

the hull is solid fiberglass - not a floating sandwich like a 'whaler. so
without the foam the M15 would sink. i have no idea what the 'lift
potential' is for a swamped M15. thing is ... i've never read that an M15
has been swamped - neither by accident or by design.

i don't believe the M17 has positive flotation. i'll be corrected if wrong
;o)-

in a short bit i'm going to post some interior shots of my M15. this will
show the foam locations. the link will be shared on this email list.

dave scobie
M15 #288, not yet named

Ben Smith 
wrote:

So forgive me on the confusion but I don't yet own a Montgomery. Are these
boats made with foam in them to give them buoyancy even if knocked down
(like a Boston Whaler)? What is the extent of a Montgomery's reserve
buoyancy, what is installed at the factory?

Thanks,
Ben

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Message: 3
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 19:44:04 EST
From: JDavies104@aol.com
Subject: Re: M_Boats: wet lockers
To: deuce3window@sbcglobal.net, montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com
Message-ID: <c8c.1c0690db.34f60c54@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

As a new M-17 single-handing sailor planning some Chesapeake Bay sailing
this 
season, I'd also be interested in experiences of M-17 sailors in unexpected
squalls, etc.   Does a knock-down in an M-17 present a danger of swamping?
Or 
(assuming the lockers are secure) does it reliably self-right?   Any
exciting 
sea-stories from the old hands?

Thanks

Rick
M-17 #633 Lynne L

**************
Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on
AOL Living.

(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-du
ffy/2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 19:35:33 -0800
From: Gary M Hyde <gmhyde1@mac.com>
Subject: Re: M_Boats: wet lockers
To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats
 <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>
Message-ID: <52269559-BC98-4B67-ABE8-A4CD6A886A6F@mac.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes

Dave:
I think you are right. The M15 is required to have floatation,  about
10 cubic feet if I remember what Jerry emailed me once. The M17 is in
a larger class and isn't required to have it.
--Gary
On Feb 26, 2008, at 4:11 PM, W David Scobie wrote:
...
ben:
the M15 has 'positive flotation' in the form of foam blocks
installed at the factory.  the two foam locations are: under the
cockpit floor, in the bow (in a screwed shut locker).
the hull is solid fiberglass - not a floating sandwich like a
'whaler.  so without the foam the M15 would sink.  i have no idea
what the 'lift potential' is for a swamped M15.  thing is ... i've
never read that an M15 has been swamped - neither by accident or by
design.
i don't believe the M17 has positive flotation.  i'll be corrected
if wrong ;o)-
in a short bit i'm going to post some interior shots of my M15.
this will show the foam locations.  the link will be shared on this
email list.
dave scobie
 M15 #288, not yet named
Ben Smith <productiongreatscott@hotmail.com> wrote:
So forgive me on the confusion but I don't yet own a Montgomery. Are
these boats made with foam in them to give them buoyancy even if
knocked down (like a Boston Whaler)? What is the extent of a
Montgomery's reserve buoyancy, what is installed at the factory?
Thanks,
Ben
---------------------------------
Looking for last minute shopping deals?  Find them fast with Yahoo!
Search.
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Message: 5
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 19:40:40 -0800
From: Gary M Hyde <gmhyde1@mac.com>
Subject: Re: M_Boats: wet lockers
To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats
 <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>
Message-ID: <C314B6EB-F951-48FB-9694-85868E8D7744@mac.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes

The second time out in my M17 when new I couldn't release the main
sheet in a jibe and shipped several gallons of water over the lee
gunwale and all around my buddy Vince! But not went into the cabin
even though the hatch boards were not in place. Vince had a change of
clothes along, so all ended well.
--Gary Hyde
2005 M17 sailboat #637 'Hydeaway 2'
We can't change the wind, but we can trim our sails. Sailing is a bit
like "African Queening" thru life.

On Feb 26, 2008, at 4:44 PM, JDavies104@aol.com wrote:
...
As a new M-17 single-handing sailor planning some Chesapeake Bay
sailing this
season, I'd also be interested in experiences of M-17 sailors in
unexpected
squalls, etc.   Does a knock-down in an M-17 present a danger of
swamping?   Or
(assuming the lockers are secure) does it reliably self-right?   Any
exciting
sea-stories from the old hands?
Thanks
Rick
M-17 #633 Lynne L
**************
Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on
AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-du
ffy/2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598
...
)
_______________________________________________
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 22:15:35 -0800 (PST)
From: W David Scobie <wdscobie@yahoo.com>
Subject: M_Boats: Interior of an M15
To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats
 <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>
Message-ID: <790616.14160.qm@web38613.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Monty Fans:

 i've put together a short video slideshow that shows the interior spaces of
an M15.

 http://s57.photobucket.com/albums/g203/spankmeairlines/M15number288/?action
=view¤t=6b150b28.pbr

 individual slideshow images may be viewed through this link -

 http://s57.photobucket.com/albums/g203/spankmeairlines/M15number288/

   NOTE - password required to view album (not the video slideshow).  the
password is:

 monty15fan

 the album images are not in any order (photobucket wouldn't allow me to
'organize' within an album).  if you watch the slideshow you can see the
approx name of each picture.  in the image album you can review details
about each photo.

 if anyone has a challenge let me know.  i'll then work at getting a
different format for sharing these photos.

 dave scobie
 M15 #288 - not yet named

---------------------------------
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now.

------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 07:25:03 +0000
From: Ben Smith <productiongreatscott@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: M_Boats: montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 60, Issue 23
To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>
Message-ID: <BAY123-W3016C561CC273DB64B2DE0D61A0@phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Thanks Dave, Does anyone know if the 17s have "positive flotation" blocks
installed?
Thanks,
     Ben

ben: