I understand the trim/ballast issues. What I didn't know was whether the lead production phase was ingots or pellets. The bricks i have a relatively small - I think I estimated 1-1.5x3-4" (?) which would mean 75-100 lbs or so IIRC. . I'll try to get back in and take a look. I think I could remove them w/out too much trouble if i needed to. Will see how she sits w/out crew. I did find this Jerrry quote on webs: *Summer 85; # 335, Added 50 lbs of trim ballast forward, making total of 75, then changed 50 of that to a steel plate to make more room for those who wanted to install an elect pkg. *(my M15 is #405) And I think the previous (known) two owners sailed mostly solo. Or at least a great deal of hardware was added to bring all control lines to the cockpit... Thanks all for replies! Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2014 12:04:27 -0700
From: "stevetrapp" <stevetrapp@q.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: M-15 Ballast Message-ID: <C2DDF781177C42E080145529BDCFAA30@STEVEEW> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
One way to avoid the problem of too much weight in the aft of an M-15 is to not sail solo. The weight of the crew person helps balance the boat, plus I think it is more fun to always have another person aboard, and it is safer. Steve M-15 # 335
----- Original Message ----- From: "Howard Audsley" <haudsley@tranquility.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2014 6:30 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M-15 Ballast
Difficult to tell the scale as to the size of those ingots and how much they might weigh.
There has been some discussion over the years about how the M15 points better with the skipper's weight forward. The idea is to keep her level, fore and aft, vs. squatting in the aft end. When that happens, the bow weathercocks away from the wind. Think lee helm. Nothing wrong with the design of the boat, it is just that it is small enough to be affected by weight in the aft end. If one skipper weighs 150 pounds, and another 250......they extra weight in the aft end will matter.
To compensate, people will move the weight of coolers, water jugs, etc. forward when under sail, and will sit as far forward as possible, use tiller extensions, hiking sticks, longer tillers, etc. to enable them to do it. All this being an attempt to balance the weight fore and aft.
This looks like an attempt by someone to install more permanent ballast forward. Again, nothing wrong with the boat as designed, it is simply a small boat that is affected by as little as the skipper's weight. The M17's are too, just not as much.
If those are small ingots, and are permanently attached with epoxy, you might be "stuck" with them.
On Oct 6, 2014, at 6:55 PM, AM wrote:
http://icenine.smugmug.com/Sailing/i-fpFGP2J/0/L/M15%20ballast-L.jpg
Dave: You are correct - I misspoke... I meant to say forward most compartment (usually screwed shut). Take a look at photo in link. These are directly against bulkhead in the bow compartment. I've read that Monty's eventually went to lead ballast - is this what replaced all the little steel punchings? Or does this look added?
The boat sails well, but of course it's my first M-15 so I would not necessarily know if it's been mucked with.
Cheers, a
Message: 1 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2014 07:02:31 -0600 From: Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: M-15 Ballast Message-ID: <CAGjBOA67JBQNBY=cO4R0LX=z4138Lfg=pUhD6m0c+6YkRwkpaA@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Those bricks are not stock. Where are they located?
You wrote 'aft locker'. The 15 does not have a aft locker, just two port and starboard lockers.
Foam should fill 2/3rd of the under forward vberth and under the cockpit floor.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA :: Former M15 owner On Oct 6, 2014 6:37 AM, "AM" <middleriverstudio@gmail.com> wrote:
New-to-me M-15. Aft locker is missing most of the foam (will soon remedy with noodles) and I see lead (?) ballast bricks. Is this stock, or did someone add more lead? I know it's supposed to have a hump here, but photos I've seen looked a bit different. Anyone else have same bricks?
Thx
a
Message: 3 Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2014 15:13:30 -0600 From: Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: M-15 Ballast Message-ID: < CAGjBOA5AwdFXwzzk2anQMZ1dzxC0OwsFQnYmBfPPUJUKusLm6w@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Jerry did go to lead ballast. the ballast used is lead shot, the same product used in #6 or #8 shotgun shells.
with the added description i agree with others that this is someones effort to ad trim ballast.
if there is no more than about 50lbs of lead you should be fine. this is about the same as the weight i had on my M15 after i installed the electrical system (a group 24 battery weights about 50 lbs).
another check is to put the boat in the water. look at how she is sitting. if she no more than a 'bit' bow down you are OK.
the M15 isn't under-ballasted so what you want to do is assure the boat is not sitting off her lines.
-- :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
On Oct 6, 2014, at 6:55 PM, AM wrote:
http://icenine.smugmug.com/Sailing/i-fpFGP2J/0/L/M15%20ballast-L.jpg
Dave: You are correct - I misspoke... I meant to say forward most compartment (usually screwed shut). Take a look at photo in link. These are directly against bulkhead in the bow compartment. I've read that Monty's eventually went to lead ballast - is this what replaced all the little steel punchings? Or does this look added?
The boat sails well, but of course it's my first M-15 so I would not necessarily know if it's been mucked with.
Cheers, a
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Message: 4 Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2014 18:06:42 -0400 From: Rick Davies <jdavies104@gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Outboard Motor for M17 Message-ID: < CA+0OvVh66BwWgzHX5-pUP8Cjy49aNMsk2hKK5hujZBgQvivhMQ@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Can't beat a 2 horse long shaft Honda for an M17. Weighs less than 30 lb. Had mine for 7 years and never needed anything more.
Rick M17 #633 Lynne L
On Wednesday, October 8, 2014, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
6HP is more than is needed. the weight is the real problem of a 4-cycle outboard of the 6HP type
my 4HP suzuki is just a 'de-tuned' 6HP outboard. weights about 65 or so lbs. no fun to carry or lift onto the outboard bracket. also a lot of weight hanging aft of the transom.
so i say use that old Johnson! it is lighter than my 4HP!
-- :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
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Message: 5 Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2014 17:35:29 -0500 From: Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: M_Boats: Outboard Motor for M17 Message-ID: <CA+TbpAUAOrDAA8hEm= 23euBu9kJpd-_X+nv45uyWsnv8Z101fA@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
That's good news, Rick, I will end up with a 3.5 for mine for the very reasons that Dave mentioned earlier. Was concerned that the 3.5 might not be enough. Tom B
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