Hi John, this is good information, thank you! There's just three of us. My daughter + wife = "the girls". I climbed into a Potter 19 recently and it felt a bit too confined to me with the way the keel splits the cabin in half. I looked up the Ensenada 20 and that looks like it could work for us - thanks for the suggestion! -Darrin On Wed, Sep 5, 2018 at 12:14 AM John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
I think an M-17 could work for your needs, while your daughter is small enough to sleep on the settee. Or is it daughters, plural? One place you say daughter, another "my girls"...?
Two kids and two adults on an M-17 would be IMO a bit crowded, even if the kids are small (and since you are not, you're almost as tall as me :-). Though the cockpit is plenty big for four, the sleeping would be a bit crowded unless you have the newer M-17 with settees both sides and your girl(s) are small enough to sleep in them. And you could sleep in the cockpit, yes, it's 6 1/2 ft. long on the benches (but not in the well, so you'd have to rig some boards across the gap between benches, or lash yourself to one side or the other on the bench... :-). For a weekend or 3 days you could probably do it if you really wanted. For anything much longer, I think it would be a bit small.
I'm 6' 3" and just fit on one side of the V-berth without my head hanging over the edge, and with my feet all the way into the point of the V taking up that space. So if anyone else is on the other side, they need to be a enough shorter, or we'll be fighting over the space for our feet...
A couple of thoughts of other boats I have personal experience with that meet the trailerable option with a similar or less towing weight to the M-17 and more space for two adults and two(?) kids:
West Wight Potter 19 - http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=5156 More space inside, though middle of that space is constricted/obstructed by the daggerboard trunk somewhat, more so when the board is up, and the cable for the board is in the way even when the board is down. Less of an issue for kid-sized people; more of an issue for tall guys like you (and me). A bit lighter to trailer; at least as easy as an M-17 to rig & launch. Not quite the performance of an M-17 but certainly adequate for your needs, enjoying some trailer sailor cruising with family or solo. Sails a bit flatter than round hull boats due to hard chines, and a fairly dry ride in chop in my experience. Beach-able even on shallow shores with dagger-board up. Not as heavily built as M-17 but for your lake sailing/camping certainly adequate. Never had my own but a sailing club I was in had one that I've rigged (up & down) & trailer launched & retrieved & sailed a bunch & qualified to skipper. Not sure how easy to find one of these in decent shape for affordable price. They've been made for a lot of years so price will vary with age as well as condition.
Ensenada 20 (or Balboa 20 - same hull, different deck/cabin). http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=53 Also a Lyle Hess design (as is the M-17). About the same trailering weight. Swing keel, sits lower on trailer, beachable with keel up on fairly shallow shores, but has the disadvantages of a swing keel also (cable hum, performance, deeper draft with keel down, possible leaks at pivot bolt, etc.). But she sails OK, again I would say plenty adequate for your needs, and like most all Hess designs is seaworthy and safe even in relatively inexperienced hands. The Ensenada with its raised deck cabin design is very very roomy inside for a 20-footer (Balboa less so but still more than an M-17). Plenty of space for sleeping/cruising with a family of 4. Tradeoff is a rather small cockpit (but passengers can sprawl on the big raised deck). The one I owned for a little while I bought from a guy who had it 20 years and did lots of family camping when his kids were still kids. Not as heavily built as M-17 but for your lake sailing/camping certainly adequate. Mast is taller & heavier than M-17 or Potter 19 so raising/lowering solo will need some tackle, but it's a strong rig, heavy mast extrusion used to avoid need for any spreaders on shrouds. More windage due to raised deck design (less so on Balboa deck version). These can be had pretty cheaply when available, they were made 1972-1981 so all are fairly old.
Both of the above are fine to single-hand, or at least that's my experience.
cheers, John S.
On 08/23/2018 03:50 PM, Darrin Goodman wrote:
Hi,
My name is Darrin and I'm new to this list. I live in northern CO and I have developed the bug to go sailing - although I am a newbie here, I am no stranger to water; I'm an avid and long-time whitewater canoeist and whitewater rafter. I'm also used to doing long self-supported trips.
Recently someone pointed out to me that as a landlocked individual, I would have more frequent and varied sailing opportunities if I purchase a smaller trailerable boat as opposed to a larger boat, and I can see the wisdom in that. A larger (25-28') boat will likely take longer and be more involved to set up, will be more difficult to store, will likely stay for the whole season at one single body of water, will potentially be more difficult to single hand (at least for a newbie like me), and will be more expensive to own/store/maintain.
I'm 6'1" tall and weigh about 220 lbs. I'd like to have the ability to do the following: - be mobile so that I can sail in various CO lakes and not be limited to just one body of water - single-hand the boat during times when I am alone - have enough room on and in the boat for weekend overnight trips with my wife and daughter - having the ability to beach the boat or get close to shore would be a plus
I'm considering an M-17. I like it's lines and its simplicity; it's trailerable and I believe that it would be reasonably easy to set-up/take-down by myself. We don't need to bring a lot of stuff other than food, cold beer and a change of clothes. I am hopeful that sometimes perhaps I could sleep in the cockpit under a tarp, which would free up space in the cabin for my girls.
Here's what I'd like to know.... given what I have listed here, do you feel like the M-17 would be a good fit for my family and I? Will my wife and I be able to fit in the v-berth for sleeping and will my small daughter fit on the quarter birth? If not, is there another boat that you would recommend based on the criteria that I have listed here?
Thanks so much in advance!
-Darrin
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com