I have an m15 and i toss in a 45 lb thrust minn kota and deep cycle batt. every time i go out for the becalmed scenarios...rarely do i need to use it for more than 4 miles at a time but there have been no issues at those run times (less than 3 hrs consecutive). However it is less than useless in windy conditions. I can only assume slight current would negate progress as well.) but as an auxiliary for calm winds and no current, trolling motors are perfect. As a close quarters maneuvering aid, a trolling motor is also viable - until the wind blows. Then it is kinda worse than no motor for me because i get myself into spots where sails cant easily/quickly get me out. As for safety, like out running a storm or quickly returning to port to address an on-board emergency i would not put any faith in the trolling motor-dont get me wrong, id clamp it on and make an effort if it was an option but it would not be counted as a piece of safety equipment on my boat when planning a voyage. Never-the-less, as earlier stated, it goes in the boat every time I go out. On Mar 7, 2017 1:00 PM, <montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com> wrote: Send montgomery_boats mailing list submissions to montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ montgomery_boats or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com You can reach the person managing the list at montgomery_boats-owner@mailman.xmission.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of montgomery_boats digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Roller furlers for a Monty 17 (Jim Ellsworth) 2. Re: Trolling motor for auxiliary propulsion (John Schinnerer) 3. Re: Trolling motor for auxiliary propulsion (Dan Farrell) 4. Re: Trolling motor for auxiliary propulsion (Wilson Frye) 5. Re: Trolling motor for auxiliary propulsion (Wilson Frye) 6. Re: Trolling motor for auxiliary propulsion (John Schinnerer) 7. Trolling motor for auxiliary propulsion (brad kurlancheek) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2017 11:01:19 -0800 From: Jim Ellsworth <jellsworth603@gmail.com> To: STANLEY WHEATLEY <swwheatley@comcast.net>, For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Roller furlers for a Monty 17 Message-ID: <D858DA25-6550-4F6F-AE95-FF2F7437702A@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Retaining clip is in but with washers as Dave mentioned that should do the trick. Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 6, 2017, at 8:59 AM, STANLEY WHEATLEY <swwheatley@comcast.net> wrote:
Did you use the "turnbuckle retaining clip" that should have come with the furler? It is specifically designed to prevent what you describe.
On March 5, 2017 at 11:44 PM Jim Ellsworth <jellsworth603@gmail.com>
wrote:
I have the snap furl on Grace and a new Genoa with the foam to keep
the
shape when furled half way. I have not used it yet so can't comment on performance although it seems to be a top notch piece of equipment. I really did not want to go furling but I sail solo 95% of the time so it just made sense to get. I have one issue when trying to get the pin in the forestay the furler drum falls down over the turnbuckle hole making it impossible to get the pin in. I have been able to get it in by using a screwdriver to go through the hole and trying to slide the pin from the other side. Has anyone else experienced this? This will add at least 1/2 hour to launching trying to get the pin in. Other than that is seems great and I like that you can still use the jib halyard to get the sail up and down.
Jim Ellsworth M-17 #603 Grace
On Sun, Mar 5, 2017 at 7:48 PM, Stan Susman <stanpfa@pacbell.net> wrote:
I've seen that furler take some tremendous punishment and keep
on ticking.
It's really in a different class then the CDI, I'm not knocking
the CDI,
it's good for what you pay for them. But it only takes 1 time
when stuff is
breaking that you wished you paid the freight on a stronger
unitStan
On Sunday, March 5, 2017 1:43 PM, Stanley Wheatley < swwheatley@comcast.net> wrote:
I have a Schaefer Snapfurl CF500 on my M17 and like it a lot.
Bought it to
replace a CDI FF1 that came with the boat because I did not care
for the
CDI's halyard setup.
I paid something in the $500s, but that was two years ago during
Defender's
annual sale. I would expect to pay more today.
It should fit over your existing forestay.
You will want to get a new genoa with uv protection and a padded
luff. The
size depends on conditions you sail in. For my circumstances, a
150% would
be too big. I got a 135% from Elliott-Pattison and even that
gets reefed as
often as not.
-----Original Message----- From: Dave Scobie Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2017 3:09 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Roller furlers for a Monty 17
Tom:
i recommend the Schaefer Snapfurl.
i recommend having a new headsail made. get a 150% ... this is
the sail
that Lyle designed the M17 to use. recutting a sail will only
result in
disappointing performance.
i recommend getting both the sail & furler from JudyB - http://www.hydesailsdirect.com/ Judy knows the boats, can get
you the
correct items and will treat you right.
order soonest as this is the time of years backorders happen as
folks get
ready for the sailing season!
be aware that a furling unit will increase rigging time by 15-20
minutes if
you 'dry sail' the boat.
:: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner #288 - http://www.freewebs.com/m15-name-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - http://www.m17-375.webs.com :: Sage 17 #1 - AIR BORN - http://sagemarine.us/sage_17.html :: Sage 15 sloop #001 - ASOLARE - http://sagemarine.us/sage_15.
html
:: SageCat #000 - SAGECAT - http://sagemarine.us/sagecat.html
On Sun, Mar 5, 2017 at 10:26 AM, Thomas Buzzi <
thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com>
wrote:
Sailors, Asking for input from those that have installed roller
furlers on their
Monty 17's. What brand do you have and what did it cost?
Did you have to
change out your forestay to install the unit? Do you like
what you have?
Did you have to have a special jib made for the furler? Thanks for your help.
Fair winds, Tom B,Monty 17 "AS-IS"
------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2017 12:26:34 -0800 From: John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Trolling motor for auxiliary propulsion Message-ID: <d714e4bd-1970-d9ec-4401-9fa0c3243125@eco-living.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Forgot to respond to this part... On 03/05/2017 05:22 PM, Wilson Frye wrote: ...
Will any M17 owner who has used a trolling motor as auxiliary propulsion for leaving and approaching the dock, and for short term auxiliary propulsion when winds are light, share what you may have learned from the experience?
Haven't used one on my own M17, but have used them on a Potter 19 and a Venture 17. Both are somewhat lighter overall than the M17 - Potter at ~1200 and Venture at ~900. But the Potter has more windage than an M17, I reckon. Both boats had to be launched at a ramp, then motored several hundred yards under a low bridge to rig up at another dock past the bridge. The channel has a constant current, ~1 kt. at the low end (tide coming in against river outflow) and probably ~2.5 kt. at the high end (tide and river going out). The trolling motors were fine for this. On the return there was motoring back into the basin/dock to de-rig, against the same current and sometimes against some wind for the first part. The trolling motors also did fine with that. They were not fancy trollers - just ordinary old small ones. I think the Venure 17 one was just a 30 or 35 lb. thrust. The Potter might have had a 40-45 lb. thrust. Against max current and some headwind progress could be slow back to the dock, barely a knot or so over ground. So the motor might be running full or near full power, but only for a short time, a few hundred yards or maybe 1/4 mile at most when returning. As long as the battery was charged up, this was all fine. cheers, John S. -- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2017 19:13:50 -0600 From: Dan Farrell <msog@danf.us> To: Msog List <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Trolling motor for auxiliary propulsion Message-ID: <nvn5gphapimn2uqoj8ofg4or.1488849230935@email.android.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Will, A few years ago I purchased a 12v, 55lb thrust minnkota transom mount trying motor for use with my m17 on a lake that didn't allow gas engines. Like others, I found it powerful enough for only benign conditions. I grew to distrust its ability to power through heavier wind and waves. Nowadays I just use the sails as I feel more comfortable with sick and mooring approaches in force 5 or 6 under sail than I did with the troller. And if you can't trust it, what's the point? I did once use it on mille lacs, a 130,000 acre shallow choppy lake, to get out of a marina and into the lake, and I guess it worked, but I also was going maybe 50? into the wind and raised the sails as soon as I could. Since then I've considered the power it provides too low for any serious duties. If I were to repower with electric I'd look closely at a 24v, 100+ lb thrust model, but even that I fear just isn't made for aux work. For now I intend to use the old 6 horse Johnson on any water requiring auxiliary power. If I can only get it running again that is... Dan Farrell M17 #301 Wilson Frye <fryewe@mac.com> wrote:
All,
Will any M17 owner who has used a trolling motor as auxiliary propulsion for leaving and approaching the dock, and for short term auxiliary propulsion when winds are light, share what you may have learned from the experience?
I have a 6hp Tohatsu SailPro. It drives the boat at hull speed in benign conditions with very little throttle (perhaps quarter throttle). it sips fuel. It has a 6 amp alternator that is advertised as capability for recharging batteries.
Fact is, the alternator is inadequate for battery charging. We will be cruising with a 50 quart Dometic refrigerator this year, and as a result we?ll be taking a 1000EUi Honda generator and a Noco Genius 26000 (26 amp capability?@14VDC that?s 364W) along to charge the 200AH of deep cycle batteries to keep them near topped up from day to day.
Today it occurred to me that if my 45 pound thrust 12V trolling motor will push the boat at a reasonable speed when needed, why not leave the Tohatsu at home?
Here?s my thinking? - The outboard uses about a half gallon an hour at 6K RPM?about 5 knots under good conditions. - The generator?s 0.6 gallon tank will run the generator at full load for 7 hours. - Useful energy in the batteries is about 40 percent of capacity to avoid discharge below 50 percent?which is about 80AH. - The battery charger will provide up to 26A when bulk charging the battery if it is significantly discharged. - The trolling motor will draw 40A if run at position 5 (maximum speed), 32A at position 4, and about 24A on position 3. - The Dometic draws about 3A when running to maintain temperature, after cooled down, and it?s duty cycle is likely to be about 40-50 percent of the time while cruising in summer in the Gulf. - The Honda generator is quieter than the Tohatsu. - The outboard is a heavy load on the transom when not in use. - Solar panels are not mounted and are stored when underway. - On days when the wind is unreliable, on the trolling motor we can move about 20 miles (assume 3.5 knots) in 6 hours. If we run the generator long enough to bulk re-charge the batteries for their overnight use, about an hour, before getting underway, then the charger should be able to complete the absorption phase of charging during the six hours of re-positioning (is the assumption that the charger will provide 20A to the trolling motor while charging the battery a good one?)
And the overall effect will be that I will use about a third of the fuel using the generator and charger and trolling motor in this fashion, rather than the Tohatsu. And be able to keep the batteries charged efficiently without running the generator for extended time at anchorage on days that we move to a new location (solar will be used if at anchor all day), and be able to leave that heavy outboard off the transom.
Thanks for any comments on the feasibility of doing this?
Will
------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2017 19:21:05 -0600 From: Wilson Frye <fryewe@mac.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Trolling motor for auxiliary propulsion Message-ID: <A51B0FA6-D158-4556-9E94-2F1A911C40E2@mac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Thanks, Dan. Because I envision the trolling motor being used when there is NO wind rather than when there is a lot of wind, I?m going to give it a shot? Will
On Mar 6, 2017, at 7:13 PM, Dan Farrell <msog@danf.us> wrote:
Hi Will,
A few years ago I purchased a 12v, 55lb thrust minnkota transom mount trying motor for use with my m17 on a lake that didn't allow gas engines.
Like others, I found it powerful enough for only benign conditions. I grew to distrust its ability to power through heavier wind and waves. Nowadays I just use the sails as I feel more comfortable with sick and mooring approaches in force 5 or 6 under sail than I did with the troller. And if you can't trust it, what's the point?
I did once use it on mille lacs, a 130,000 acre shallow choppy lake, to get out of a marina and into the lake, and I guess it worked, but I also was going maybe 50? into the wind and raised the sails as soon as I could. Since then I've considered the power it provides too low for any serious duties.
If I were to repower with electric I'd look closely at a 24v, 100+ lb thrust model, but even that I fear just isn't made for aux work. For now I intend to use the old 6 horse Johnson on any water requiring auxiliary power. If I can only get it running again that is...
Dan Farrell M17 #301
Wilson Frye <fryewe@mac.com> wrote:
All,
Will any M17 owner who has used a trolling motor as auxiliary propulsion for leaving and approaching the dock, and for short term auxiliary propulsion when winds are light, share what you may have learned from the experience?
I have a 6hp Tohatsu SailPro. It drives the boat at hull speed in benign conditions with very little throttle (perhaps quarter throttle). it sips fuel. It has a 6 amp alternator that is advertised as capability for recharging batteries.
Fact is, the alternator is inadequate for battery charging. We will be cruising with a 50 quart Dometic refrigerator this year, and as a result we?ll be taking a 1000EUi Honda generator and a Noco Genius 26000 (26 amp capability?@14VDC that?s 364W) along to charge the 200AH of deep cycle batteries to keep them near topped up from day to day.
Today it occurred to me that if my 45 pound thrust 12V trolling motor will push the boat at a reasonable speed when needed, why not leave the Tohatsu at home?
Here?s my thinking? - The outboard uses about a half gallon an hour at 6K RPM?about 5 knots under good conditions. - The generator?s 0.6 gallon tank will run the generator at full load for 7 hours. - Useful energy in the batteries is about 40 percent of capacity to avoid discharge below 50 percent?which is about 80AH. - The battery charger will provide up to 26A when bulk charging the battery if it is significantly discharged. - The trolling motor will draw 40A if run at position 5 (maximum speed), 32A at position 4, and about 24A on position 3. - The Dometic draws about 3A when running to maintain temperature, after cooled down, and it?s duty cycle is likely to be about 40-50 percent of the time while cruising in summer in the Gulf. - The Honda generator is quieter than the Tohatsu. - The outboard is a heavy load on the transom when not in use. - Solar panels are not mounted and are stored when underway. - On days when the wind is unreliable, on the trolling motor we can move about 20 miles (assume 3.5 knots) in 6 hours. If we run the generator long enough to bulk re-charge the batteries for their overnight use, about an hour, before getting underway, then the charger should be able to complete the absorption phase of charging during the six hours of re-positioning (is the assumption that the charger will provide 20A to the trolling motor while charging the battery a good one?)
And the overall effect will be that I will use about a third of the fuel using the generator and charger and trolling motor in this fashion, rather than the Tohatsu. And be able to keep the batteries charged efficiently without running the generator for extended time at anchorage on days that we move to a new location (solar will be used if at anchor all day), and be able to leave that heavy outboard off the transom.
Thanks for any comments on the feasibility of doing this?
Will
------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2017 19:22:09 -0600 From: Wilson Frye <fryewe@mac.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Trolling motor for auxiliary propulsion Message-ID: <8AC340EC-9932-452E-81A9-8D598BE76E88@mac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Thanks, John. Just the kind of experience I was hoping to get a synopsis of? Will
On Mar 6, 2017, at 2:26 PM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Forgot to respond to this part...
On 03/05/2017 05:22 PM, Wilson Frye wrote: ...
Will any M17 owner who has used a trolling motor as auxiliary propulsion for leaving and approaching the dock, and for short term auxiliary propulsion when winds are light, share what you may have learned from the experience?
Haven't used one on my own M17, but have used them on a Potter 19 and a Venture 17. Both are somewhat lighter overall than the M17 - Potter at ~1200 and Venture at ~900. But the Potter has more windage than an M17, I reckon.
Both boats had to be launched at a ramp, then motored several hundred yards under a low bridge to rig up at another dock past the bridge. The channel has a constant current, ~1 kt. at the low end (tide coming in against river outflow) and probably ~2.5 kt. at the high end (tide and river going out). The trolling motors were fine for this. On the return there was motoring back into the basin/dock to de-rig, against the same current and sometimes against some wind for the first part. The trolling motors also did fine with that. They were not fancy trollers - just ordinary old small ones. I think the Venure 17 one was just a 30 or 35 lb. thrust. The Potter might have had a 40-45 lb. thrust.
Against max current and some headwind progress could be slow back to the dock, barely a knot or so over ground. So the motor might be running full or near full power, but only for a short time, a few hundred yards or maybe 1/4 mile at most when returning. As long as the battery was charged up, this was all fine.
cheers, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2017 20:07:52 -0800 From: John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Trolling motor for auxiliary propulsion Message-ID: <14cefb08-1450-3e2e-27e0-1ab2170095d8@eco-living.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Glad it is helpful... I'm not sure how the bigger trolling electrics compare with Torqeedo's electrics. I have a little experience with a Torqeedo 1003, which the club also bought as a gas-free auxiliary, mainly for one or two larger boats. It was used some on the Potter 19 and was plenty of power - Torqeedo compares it to a 3hp gas engine. Mostly it is used for one or another of two international folkboats the club has, which for those not familiar is a full keel 4750 lb. displacement boat. Again not as a long-range or intense conditions motoring solution, but for getting on and off a mooring in a fairly tight and flukey-wind location, or for motoring in and out under the bridge and back to the intermediate dock to rig up or down, same as described for the Potter 19 and Venture 17. Definitely enough power for that. And, range is still an issue, for any electric...I don't have enough experience to back, or buck, Torqeedo's claims of range/running time. It does have a high-tech monitor screen which tells you power usage, remaining run time at current usage, etc. etc. so at least in terms of information you've got more than with a regular trolling motor and battery. cheers, John S. On 03/06/2017 05:22 PM, Wilson Frye wrote:
Thanks, John. Just the kind of experience I was hoping to get a synopsis of?
Will
On Mar 6, 2017, at 2:26 PM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Forgot to respond to this part...
On 03/05/2017 05:22 PM, Wilson Frye wrote: ...
Will any M17 owner who has used a trolling motor as auxiliary propulsion for leaving and approaching the dock, and for short term auxiliary propulsion when winds are light, share what you may have learned from the experience?
Haven't used one on my own M17, but have used them on a Potter 19 and a Venture 17. Both are somewhat lighter overall than the M17 - Potter at ~1200 and Venture at ~900. But the Potter has more windage than an M17, I reckon.
Both boats had to be launched at a ramp, then motored several hundred yards under a low bridge to rig up at another dock past the bridge. The channel has a constant current, ~1 kt. at the low end (tide coming in against river outflow) and probably ~2.5 kt. at the high end (tide and river going out). The trolling motors were fine for this. On the return there was motoring back into the basin/dock to de-rig, against the same current and sometimes against some wind for the first part. The trolling motors also did fine with that. They were not fancy trollers - just ordinary old small ones. I think the Venure 17 one was just a 30 or 35 lb. thrust. The Potter might have had a 40-45 lb. thrust.
Against max current and some headwind progress could be slow back to the dock, barely a knot or so over ground. So the motor might be running full or near full power, but only for a short time, a few hundred yards or maybe 1/4 mile at most when returning. As long as the battery was charged up, this was all fine.
cheers, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2017 13:47:42 -0500 From: brad kurlancheek <bkurlancheek@gmail.com> To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: M_Boats: Trolling motor for auxiliary propulsion Message-ID: <CALpQOtDBFEx_QxB8SbuJ7PwMLJU1SzU0fdYHRx8w0eJFWJiMuA@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 You could just dish the fridge, generator, gas motor, and generator. Here'd be your weight savings: Honda generator 29 lbs Tohatsu (empty) 55 lbs Dometic Fridge (empty) 44 lbs Noco Genius Charger 8 lbs 10 gallons fuel 60 lbs Total Weight 196 lbs An empty M17 is 1600 lbs - so you're adding over 12 % additional weight with this stuff. You could just go with a minnkota 30 (25 lbs), and a 100 AH battery (25 lbs). A solar panel would be another 5 lbs. The boat would sail easier, meaning less need for the engine. Just a thought. ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ montgomery_boats mailing list montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! ------------------------------ End of montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 169, Issue 4 ************************************************