Jason, Consider figuring the length of your rigging to include toggles for the shrouds - no real need for them on the stays. If your shrouds are too long tension the lowers to support the mast - use a piece of line to tension both of them across the boat if needed and take one upper shroud (one only!) off and add the total length of turnbuckle (at 65% extension)-toggle and measure to the spot on your turnbuckle where it should show the end of the stud, mark where the END of the shroud terminal stud should sit in the t-buckle body with a marker - this will get you the approx. length of the shroud - OR, even easier- tie a small diameter piece of dyneema to the upper tang pin -run it thru the spreader and down to the chainplate at the appropriate hole, mark and subtract the length of the t-buckle and toggle to the location for the end of the stud. For the lowers - reverse the process and use the 'tensioned' upper shrouds to hold the mast in place - Do BOTH sides and check twice as it is a pain to get a set of shrouds that are too long - Too short and you can add another toggle (messy but works till next time!) Make sure your spreaders are set at the correct angle when measuring and sailing -bisect the angle the shroud makes as it is deflected at the spreader tip. (aiming UP maybe 7 degrees) Check for plumb as you go and be sure to get that 10-12" of rake in the rig as Jerry states - HE REALLY DOES KNOW WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT - in this case at least..... I did all of my standing rigging using small diameter line when I switched to a new rig that had t-terminals and was taller. -worked fine, but about a 1/2 day of agonizing over it! Shrouds and stays came out darn near spot on. Good Luck - Be careful - measure thrice! When you get it put together - come on out to the Cruiser Challenge - your boat should be faster than Jerry's! {;>) Gary Oberbeck M-17t ("t" is for 'tight rig' or 'tall') fairandsquare1@gmail.com -----Original Message----- From: jerry <jerry@jerrymontgomery.org> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tue, Jun 19, 2018 2:53 pm Subject: Re: M_Boats: Bow pulpit. My boat did not come with a bow pulpit. Is there any resource for getting one made or used. Rake the mast until the rudder blade is straight fore-aft, or even cocked to weather a tiny bit, but the rudder pointing to leeward, caused by lee helm, even a slight bit, is a disaster trying to sail upwind. Go by the feel of the helm. -----Original Message----- From: Jason Leckie Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2018 1:49 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Bow pulpit. My boat did not come with a bow pulpit. Is there any resource for getting one made or used. Ok Jerry, the boat does have newer mylar sails so will add that in to the mix. The fore and aft stays aren't too bad for tension, it's more the side stays that are ridiculously loose. Cheers, Jason On Tue, Jun 19, 2018, 1:39 PM , <jerry@jerrymontgomery.org> wrote:
Jason- the 17 will sail far better with about 10 or 12" of rake- the exact amount depends on what kind of shape your main is in.
-----Original Message----- From: Jason Leckie Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2018 1:26 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Bow pulpit. My boat did not come with a bow pulpit. Is there any resource for getting one made or used.
Thanks John, some very helpful information there from someone who has had a somewhat similar situation.
Jason
On Tue, Jun 19, 2018, 1:05 PM John Schinnerer, <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Mine came with a forestay and backstay that didn't allow for any aft rake at all...the mast was vertical at best, maybe even a tiny bit fore-raked unless the backstay was maxed out closed and the forestay was closer than I liked to wide open in the turnbuckles (they were NOT the original stays).
Even if you can find the original specs...on a used boat from 1980 with possible modifications you couldn't know about...you are probably safer measuring for the new stays yourself. You could order a "stock" set and end up with some (or all) not fitting. At the least, measure what you've got and check against any spec you do find for originals.
You can base new rigging on the existing ones that are too long, just factoring in how much shorter each piece needs to be. Make sure to measure that your mast is vertical side to side and adjust if/as necessary for shroud length. And adjust for rake if that needs changes in stay length also.
I tried and tried to find someone in my area that does machine swaging of stainless fittings and cable but couldn't come up with anything (mostly motorboat shops and semi truck fabricators and logging riggers and trailer builders around here). I have had good experience so far with Rigging Only: http://www.riggingandhardware.com/
They have been able to answer all my "I don't know about some of these little rigging bits and pieces" questions clearly and patiently on the phone and/or by e-mail, they provide a quote before you commit to order, and service is quick so far (fitted, swaged and shipped out in a couple days at most). Prices are as good or better than any others I found, for both parts and labor.
This is definitely one of those "measure seven times, order once" kind of situations...even have someone else do the measuring separately and check vs. your numbers. Mine came out just right, with enough paranoia in my measuring and re-measuring.
cheers, John
On 06/19/2018 12:33 PM, Jason Leckie wrote:
New member here from Point Roberts, WA / Vancouver, BC, I just bought a 1980 Montgomery 17.
I have a curious issue, my standing rigging is too long despite tightening the turnbuckles to the shortest length. I am planning on buying new stays from Dwyer (who apparently makes the Montgomery rig) Are the rig specs posted anywhere? The person who I talked to at Dwyer couldn't find them for the 17.
Cheers, Jason
On Mon, Jun 18, 2018, 9:20 PM Doug, <doug9326@gmail.com> wrote:
New member here from Bend, OR. just bought a Montgomery 15.
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-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com