When the rudder is in the raised position (looking at an elevation view - ie, a side view), the elevation of the bottom of the rudder is still about six inches below the keel, and WAY below the skeg. Therefore, with the rudder raised, there is room on the lower part of the rudder below the skeg to extend the leading edge forward . My M-17 was built in 2000, and the skeg extends just a few inches below the hull. I appreciate the subject being brought up, as it has prompted me to consider and additional alteration to my rudder. I shortened it so that when it is in the raised position the bottom of the rudder is at the same elevation (maybe an inch higher) as the keel. Now I may be able to add to the leading edge and regain the surface area that I lost in shortening it, and regain the lost windward performance, while at the same time reducing weather helm. Clarence Andrews M-17 Carpe Ventum #604 Original Message ----- From: "Honshells" <chonshell@ia4u.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 10:45 PM Subject: M_Boats: Chimpanzee . . .
John Tyner might enlighten us . . .
What I don't understand about those early 17's, though . . . Could that
balanced rudder be raised? If so,
how? How did it clear the skeg? If not, then the centerboard was only for trailering convenience, "back in the day"? Jerry never expected anyone to sail in thin water?
----- Original Message ----- From: "William B. Riker" <wriker@mindspring.com> To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 9:06 PM Subject: 12-28 fasteners?
Tom,
John Harris (Chesapeake Light Craft) built a balanced rudder, like you describe, for Chimpanzee. He says it does improve the helm balance.
Bill Riker M15 #184 Storm Petrel
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces+wriker=mindspring.com@mailman.xmission.com
[mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces+wriker=mindspring.com@mailman.xmission.com]
On Behalf Of Smith, Tom Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 7:38 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: 12-28 fasteners?
You are correct Tod, our rudders differ.
The leading edge of my rudder (and Larry Yake's too, but the way, and probably others of our vintage up to maybe late '76) drops straight down the transom, like yours, but rather than continuing to drop straight, at just below the waterline it angles 90 degrees forward and extends 4 or 5 inches under the skeg (so the rudder looks like an "L"). The width (fore/aft) of the rudder above the waterline is 7 or 8 inches, but it widens to approximately 12 or a bit more the remaining 30 inches or so to the bottom. Probably clear as mud.
The original idea as Jerry has explained it to me was to help balance the helm. I'm sure it made fabricating the rudder more complicated too. Anyway, I think he went to the straight rudder after the mid-70s boats and never looked back...
Tom Smith & Jane Van Winkle Sandpoint, Idaho M15-345, Chukar M17-064, Unnamed
-----Original Message----- From: htmills@bright.net [mailto:htmills@bright.net] Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 4:07 PM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: 12-28 fasteners?
I read your post and re-read it. And re-read it. Your rudder is different than Busca's it would seem.
Busca's rudder slides up and down. Consequently it can't cut forward under the skeg....
http://www.bright.net/~htmills/BuscaTransom.JPG
Am I missing something? The only gap I had to watch was to keep the rudder gudgeon centerline far enough forward that the transom gudgeon would clear the rudder when hard-over.
Tod
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces+htmills=bright.net@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces+htmills=bright.net@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Smith, Tom Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 12:15 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: 12-28 fasteners?
Hey Jerry. I'm doing some work on the M17 rudder. Can you remember what the gap between where the rudder cuts forward under the skeg and the skeg itself should measure? I can see where the wider that gap is, the more turbulance will be created. This rudder's been damaged and I don't know how everything was set up originally, but it's about two inches right now... Thanks. t
Tom Smith & Jane Van Winkle Sandpoint, Idaho M15-345, Chukar M17-064, Unnamed
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats