No, I meant the 17, not the 15, and all I can say is "Well said." Also, I couldn't agree more about rollers.> From: tim@timtone.com> To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 08:13:23 -0800> Subject: RE: M_Boats: Re: M17 heavy weather capabilities> > >" We're talking about an M17 here, right?"> > > That was what I was thinking as well Tom.....that he must have meant a 15.> Although it has been three months since the boat was put to bed for> hibernation, I seem to recall that distance being much too far to reach the> forestay at any point let alone the stemhead.> > Either way. A down haul is about as easy as it gets. It is actually faster> than a roller in a panic and costs next to nothing.> When we adopted our 17 it had a CDI roller unit on there. > At first it was a fun new toy....Daphne, my wife, actually loved the> thing....but I ended up taking it off and having the 155 converted to hank> on.> There were a few aspects of the roller that bothered me and limited my> sailing style. I like the correct sail for the occasion. You are stuck with> whatever is on your furler. Even though ours was a 'reefing' furler, the> mods that are done to the sail to be able to do this are not acceptable in> my mind....all that line and foam stuff sewn into the sail.....nutty.> Anything other than full sail was a compromise as far as sail shape goes.> You could get by on a rolled reef on anything bellow a beamer....but even> forereaching the sails shape sucked.> The secondary parts of the roller that pushed me to convert back to basics> was it was awkward to stow when taking down rig. > And when the sail was rolled up it presented a huge amount of windage. If> you consider the layers here it was one huge mother of a sausage sticking> way up there. With a reefing sail you have the foam and stuff, then in some> cases (such as mine) the UV protective layer, then accounting for the fact> that it is a 155 with all the material involved here....and in my case I> have a Sunbrella cover for when the boat is left fully rigged on trailer for> most of the season. That is huge. Even without the Sunbrella cover. One June> afternoon I was at the boat doing some work when one of our Okanagan Ninja> winds passed through. Standing on deck and feeling the amount of pressure on> the rig and boat coming via the big blue sausage was the last time the> roller saw the light of day. If the trailer wheels weren't chocked, we might> have trailer sailed right across the marina parking lot. With the big blue> banana gone there is almost no windage effect on the boat.> > I could see going back to roller(s) if I converted to a cutter rig and> different style rollers. That way you could sail with a 130 on the forestay> or the staysl on the inner....or both. Both could be furled or set from the> cockpit.> > As far as being on or getting to the foredeck on a 17. Piece of cake. Just> remember the old saying, "one hand for you and one hand for the boat". There> is lots to hang on to on a 17. Once I am on the foredeck there is a great> area for standing or kneeling and doing headsail changes. I have been out> there and had bow buried deep enough in a trough to get me very wet. At no> time have I felt threatened enough to be bothered. If the conditions are bad> enough I sit on the hatch as soon as I get up there and then slide my butt> down to the deck, then either butt my heels into the toe rail or hang my> legs (from the knees) over the side while I do whatever needs doing. The> life lines are right there at that point so hang on to one if you can, when> you can't, just keep in mind where they are for one you might need to snatch> one up. It is always exciting, but that's the fun part of sailing.....for me> anyway.> I am no super youngster. I am about 20 lbs. overweight (but very active and> healthy) 51 year old. I feel that if someone is not able move freely about> the decks or to get on the foredeck of their sailboat to make a sail change> to fix something that is broken, then they should consider a physical> training program or look at a taking up a different hobby. The decks and> foredeck are a vital area of any sailboat and you need to be able to work> there. As much as sailing is fun and relaxing at times, it can also be> wicked serious as well.> A roller will not always prevent the need for your presence on the> foredeck....those thing jam. Mine did, and I read about failures now and> again. There is not one piece of gear on a sailboat I would trust to work> all the time.> > Oh right, one tool not mentioned that makes foredeck work> easier........beer. ~:0)> > That's my humble opinion and I am sticking to it until I forget what I> said......2 Canadian cents worth.> > Cheers, Tim Diebert> M17 #369 'Puff'> Kelowna BC....(currently in hibernation and experiencing 31 degrees, snow on> the way and 28 knot gusts.)> > ..............................................................> > Tom said:> > We're talking about an M17 here, right?> > > You aren't reaching the forestay from the hatch regardless of where the> hinges are. It's too far. If you're changing sails, you're going out on> the deck. Lacking roller furling, use the downhaul to get the headsail> down until you can get your act together. > > t> > -----Original Message-----> From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of edward> haile> Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2008 12:02 PM> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats> Subject: RE: M_Boats: Re: M17 heavy weather capabilities> > > My previous email was written without reviewing some of your comments here.> But what would you think of this idea? Turn the hatch hinges around (BoB Eeg> told me something about how the law will require sooner or later foreward> hinges so he's doing it now). This will allow you to standup and reach the> forestay easily. Cast off the jib tack and jib halyard and you are there.> You can now pull the peak and the tack together and snap on another jib. Or,> if the wind is really screaming, depending on how much slack you build into> the tack and peak lines, you could haul the jib, still attached top and> bottom, through the hatch and change sails in the cabin, reemerge and let go> the new sail and reset it with the two lines. What's the boat doing in the> meantime (if you're alone)? What if you raised the rudder out of the water> and sheeted the main down amidships. Shouldn't the boat weathercock? The> forefoot shd dig in from your weight and the stern will have little lateral> resistance. The centerboard down might be a problem. What's yr take on this?> ED> From: Nebwest2@aol.com> Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 12:34:00 -0500> To:> montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: M_Boats: Re: M17 heavy> weather capabilities> > I'd have to second Gary's observations about the M17> hatch. I'm a pretty big > boy and honestly I never tried it. My 17 had the> backwards opening front > hatch, so even if you fit, the hatch lid would> prevent you from leaning forward. > In this photo you can see the hinges are> on the front of the hatch and that > there's no way you'd be able to work> around it to deal with the luff of the > jib.> >> _http://msogphotosite.com/MSOG/b17thomps/b17thomps7.jpg_ >> (http://msogphotosite.com/MSOG/b17thomps/b17thomps7.jpg) > > On later> versions and I believe the new M17's that Bob builds the hatch > opens from> the front...> Hey Gary H.! Doesn't your hatch open from the front??? Could> you manage a > headsail change through it???>> (http://msogphotosite.com/MSOG/b17thomps/b17thomps7.jpg) > Lately, I have> been experimenting for the first time ever (for me) with a > simple downhaul> attached to the jib/genoa head. Holly cow, why I never did this > before is> beyond me. I don't mind going forward and pulling a sail down when >> someone's on the helm but when singlehanding it's a pain. When I'm alone I >> try to make sure I don't overcanvass for the conditions, but if I do, now I> can > at least get the sail down on the deck and secure before I ever leave> the > relative safety of the cockpit. It also allows me to hank on a jib at> the dock > , and attach the halyard without worry that the halyard is going> to foul > something by swinging around slack before I'm ready to raise it. I> just hook up > the downhaul and tension the halyard. I know, I know, roller> furling would > solve that issue. Someday I may go back to a furler, but for> now I'm happy with > hank-ons.> > Sean> > > > **************Start the year> off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. >> http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489>> _______________________________________________>> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats> _________________________________________________________________> Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live.> http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008_> ______________________________________________> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats> > > _______________________________________________> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats> > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message.> Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.7/1233 - Release Date: 1/19/2008> 6:37 PM> > > _______________________________________________> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats _________________________________________________________________ Climb to the top of the charts! 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