Hello Jerry: I bought a M15 #167 from Kit Cooney (I think that was his name) 29 years ago in 1982. I believe he either worked for you or did some work for you and he ended up with a M15 kit that he built. I may have the story wrong. I remember meeting you several times at the Long Beach Boat shows in the 80's and also at your company in Costa Mesa. The boat itself has held up great through the years. Unfortunately, I have had it stored on the side of my house for some time. I am now planning to get it ready for sailing again and want it refitted with new standing rigging. This M15 has always been mast head rigged (with spreaders) like a M17. I know years ago you told me that I should consider re-rigging the boat to the original fractional rig as Kit Cooney did not install a compression post inside the cabin to deal with the downward pressure from the mast. My questions are: Do you know why Kit Cooney would have rigged the boat this way? Also, have you ever installed or heard of a compression post being installed in a M15? I rather like the mast head rig and the boat has always sailed very well especially after I learned about putting some rake into the mast. Would love to hear your thoughts and anyone elses concerning the rigging. Mike Hall M15 #167 Tustin, CA ----- Original Message ----- From: "jerry" <jerry@jerrymontgomery.org> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, May 16, 2011 10:08 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 rudder performance
A possibiity is that the boat had too much mast rake, which would have a tendency to overpower the rudder.
jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "W David Scobie" <wdscobie@yahoo.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 1:38 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 rudder performance
IMO to stall the M15's rudder you have already significantly overpowered the boat.
i've never stalled the rudder on any of jerry's boats (M15, M17, S17).
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 - SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: Sage Marine - www.sagemarine.net (or .org, or .com, or .us)
--- On Sat, 5/14/11, Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> wrote:
In the M15 review years ago in Small Craft Advisor somebody complained that the M15 rudder would stall. But that has not been your impression? I will look over my tiller and rudder assembly, and if it looks easy, I may swap back to the wood blade for a while to try it. The shape looks just like what Jerry describes in his article. One would imagine he designed this rudder to work well with the boat. As I said, my main issue is the weight of the much larger plastic blade. But if the wood blade works well, I could even put the rudder on before backing the boat into the water. That would actually help a lot.
Daniel On May 14, 2011, at 1:30 PM, W David Scobie wrote:
the ruddercraft rudder on the M15 is heavy when compared to jerry's wood design. the M15 is less forgiving of having weight aft than the M17. you want the M15 to be very close to level on the waterline (bow to stern) when off the wind, or just a bit forward on the bow to get the best performance when sailing to weather.
i never felt the M15 had any rudder problems. some feel she can have to much weather helm ... but to me she is just giving you important feedback you are overpowering the boat and need to reef the main.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 - SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: Sage Marine - www.sagemarine.net (or .org, or .com, or .us)
--- On Sat, 5/14/11, Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> wrote:
Interesting. I have an Ida sailor blade installed on my M15 stock tiller assembly,
and have
the old wood blade in my garage. They were like that when I purchased the boat. The previous owner far preferred the Ida sailor blade, as it is deeper and he felt he had better control. My complaint with the blade is it weighs a ton, and since I can't put the boat in the water with the rudder installed on the trailer first, since it droops down and might get wrecked, I have to install it on the water. Wrestling the thing into the gudgeons is hard! So, do you think the performance of the stock blade is pretty good? And if so, should I reinstall it and try that?
Daniel On May 14, 2011, at 12:52 PM, W David Scobie wrote:
smiley:
the M15's rudder is _really_ good. discussion of jerry's design expectations for rudders can be reviewed here
http://www.sagemarine.us/SCA_articles/smalltalk_55.html
(thanks to SMALL CRAFT ADVISOR for allowing
Sage Marine to host jerry's article)
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 - SWEET PEA -
www.m17-375.webs.com
:: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: Sage Marine - www.sagemarine.net (or .org, or .com, or .us)
--- On Sat, 5/14/11, Karen and Smiley <magoo252@comcast.net> wrote:
Anybody have thoughts on this subject and while we are at it is an IDA rudder worth the investment for a M 15?
Thanks Smiley
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