Chris, Julie, & Joe The following are comments on my 2008 M17 “Spirit” but some issues may apply to M15’s as well. The way Spirit handles San Francisco Bay conditions is simply stunning. Spirit has also been day-sailed in the Pacific Ocean and her handling instills confidence. The build process with Bob Eeg was very positive. I am extremely happy with the boat, so the following is offered as constructive criticism and should not be taken as grumblings of overall dissatisfaction. Issue #1: Lack of a credible reefing system. The standard gear consists of reef points on the sail but no dedicated boom or mast hardware to support it. Yes, something can be cobbled together with slug stops and bits of line - but it's a hassle. I suspect many Monty owners make-do by simply dropping the jib - but this is asking for trouble in places like San Francisco Bay, so... Solution: Order the boat without a mainsail, then get with your favorite sailmaker to work out the details of a reefing system that fits your needs. Issue #2: Boom Length. Booms should not hit backstays under any circumstances. Mine does, even when the mast is raked as far back as the hardware allows. Measurements of older M17s indicate that booms were a few inches shorter. I haven’t figured out a solution that doesn’t involve cutting down both the boom and mainsail leech. Maybe I’m being paranoid. Spirit sails fine with the standard boom. It’s just that if you do get knocked down… and the boom angles up a bit and gets caught in the backstay… and the mainsail fills with water… well, you get the picture. Issue #3: Cockpit drainage. The cockpit sole is too low and water backs up into the cockpit. This has been discussed ad-nauseum (including a post I wrote a few weeks ago). Solution A: have Bob install seacocks in the drain lines so that you can close them while sailing (he offers this as an option on new M17s). Solution B: Simply plug the drains. The problem is that both these solutions completely defeat the purpose of a self-bailing cockpit. I went with flip-ring drain plugs because they can be snatched out in a panic. This beats rummaging through the lazarette and trying to twist the fragile plastic handles on notoriously cantankerous seacocks when your boat is half-full of seawater. Issue #4: Rudder hum. Spirit's rudder vibrates loudly at normal sailing speeds. This may be an isolated case because I haven't heard many others raise this issue (see recent posts for possible cures). Issue #5: Gel coat wrinkles Spirit has small lines around many corners that look something like stress cracks (they’re not). I’ve seen these wrinkles on other Montys as well. Solution: Don’t sweat the small stuff. Montys have lots of “corners” in their lapstrake hull. This gives the boats structural hull strength and longitudinal stiffness that other fiberglass boats simply don’t have. Issue #6: I can’t keep up with Corsair 24 trimarans on a power reach. Okay, I figured if you read through all this doom and gloom you deserved a chuckle. Let me end by reiterating; I liked doing business with Bob Eeg, and I LOVE this boat. It’s a real adventure-sailer for those of us who’d rather explore new areas then sit in a slip swilling vodka martinis, or go to the same three anchorages over and over and over again (been there-done that). Monty On Jim Poulakis M17 “Spirit” On Oct 4, 2008, at 7:20 AM, Joe Murphy wrote:
Congradulations Chris, I, too, just bought Seafrog, an M-17 from Bob. Sounds like he gave you the same advice that he gave me... keep it simple and figure out what you really need. Previously I owned a NS 27 and figured that I would need a lot of the same things I had on her but here's what I've discovered with a boat 10 feet shorter and 7,000 lbs lighter... - anchor - I drop anchor a lot at get-togethers here on the Bogue Sound (NC) I get a lot a strange looks dropping anchor from the stern and walking the rode up to the bow to cleat off. A lot of good friends have lent me various types of anchors and I found the aluminum Fortress to be the easiest to manage and holds extremely well. I keep all the anchor rode in a heavy duty nylon bag with a net bottom. The bitter end goes thru the bottom of the bag with enough length to cleat off. I pull out what I need and cleat it off the bow and keep the bag on the foredeck with bitter end also cleated as a precaution. The bag has a 20" diameter opening so it's fairly easy to fake the rode back into the bag and carry the whole mess back to the cockpit locker. I am looking at a bow solution. I miss the ease of doing it all from the bow and dropping the rode down the hause pipe into its own anchor line locker. - reefing lines - I started off with a single jiffy method with cheek blocks, etc on the boom. It worked great, but the downside was having a combined 60 ft of line draping all over when the sails are down. So I made it simpler by having two separate contol lines at each clew and tack. Getting to the lines is so easy with a boom that is a tad under 9 ft and a mast that is within easy grasp from the cockpit. - cockpit led lines - I too was an inch away from getting blocks, turning blocks, and line clutches to run the halyards aft, but I find that I can easily manage the halyards and stay mostly in the cockpit. If I have the hatch open and the drop boards out, I can easily do it. So for right now, I'm keeping that part simple. Besides, stretching is supposed to be good for me... That's my two cents. The temp is 72. winds are 8-10 out of the northeast. Gotta go. Fair winds, Joe Seafrog, M-17 651 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris and Julie" <candj1@bellsouth.net> To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2008 8:40 AM Subject: M_Boats: New M15 Owner
Hello everyone. My wife and I have begun the process with Bob Eeg to have an M15 built. Her name will be "Julie Suzanne". As of right now we are going with the following decisions & options:
Ivory Hull with Single Blue Stripe Camcleats Longer handrails mounted atop the sliding hatch teak runner covers Electrical package with group 24 battery under v-berth with space for 2nd battery for longer cruise Tracks on the coaming for jib cars or moving cleat Stern pulpit Opening stainless ports in cabin (Can never have too much ventilation in my opinion.)
Although this will be our 5th boat (22-36 feet and lived aboard the 36 footer) we are both pretty excited about this boat. They are such great looking boats and we have always heard great things about them. It will be nice to own a small boat that we can store in our garage, trailer to where ever we want, and yet still overnight on with some comfort.
Honestly this is the first boat whose design I would not change (at least based on my research thus far). Everything from the cockpit size to the v-berth and the storage seems to be the best compromise for the size and the intended use.
Our primary uses will be long daysails and 1-3 day short cruises with both my wife and I aboard. We live in Florida and anticipate doing plenty of trips to various cruising grounds all over the Southeast. Like most others, I work plenty of hours and will be limiting most of our trips to vacations and long weekends.
Also, like every boat I have owned, I will always have a project going on with 2-3 in the planning stages....
Some already planned projects include:
Leading halyards back to cockpit Jib downhaul (Have always had furlers, but with trailering and the fractional rig, I wonder if it makes sense here....) Some sort of anchor and rode storage that makes sense based on balancing the weights on the boat and the ability to quickly deploy if needed. Boom tent (Need something to make the cockpit a part of the interior based on the situation) Interior storage (Looking at some minor teak and some canvas based pouches in strategic locations) Tiller tamer or autopilot (Probably a tiller tamer at least in the immediate future) Special hatchboard for instrument mounting (Custom built board with hold GPS, depth finder and can be locked in place)
We dont own a tow vehicle yet, but will be purchasing one shortly. Right now I am leaning towards a used Toyota RAV4 or Honda CRV or something similar. Based on my research the M15 is not a difficult boat to tow, and I need to keep the MPG as high as possible for obvious reasons.
The intent right now is to get the 2hp 4stroke Honda outboard which appears to be standard equipment on the M15 based on my readings. I DO NOT look forward to refilling the tank while underway. I anticipate some sort of a solution to this in the near future. I know I have read some information about some great solutions to this already.
Any recommendations regarding the boat or outfitting it as we move forward with the construction? Anything not listed above is currently standard and already included(such as swim ladder). Like most people who are considering a new M-boat, I have been lurking on the email group and have scanned quite a bit of the older messages (although you cant scan everything...). I have also been through all the websites I can find and have appreciated all the great information.
Bob has been great to work with so far. I have had a number of email and phone discussions with him. He is working with me on options while also helping me to keep the boat simple (at least for the initial build....).
Thank you all for the great information I have received from this group so far....
Chris Rechtin _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
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