Sitting/sailing on my 1977 flushdeck today. The mast step appears to be where it has always been ( it lines up with deck penetrations and compression post mount position etc) and it's exactly 85 3/4" to the middle hole of the three holes in the stem head fitting to the leading edge of the mast. I will say every one of these few surviving flush decks I looked at for inspiration had a different deck setup. I ran with what this one had for J since here was no suggestions after many solicitations for what it should have been as I was restoring the boat. The rest of the deck layout I changed out of necessity or logic. So far so good... Yes, the North Channel, Les Chenaux Islands, Drummond Island and others Had fun this pm out there in Little Traverse Bay! Tim On Monday, May 30, 2016, <jerry@jerrymontgomery.org> wrote:
Henry- I'm 99% positive that my 17's have never strayed from the 6'7" measurement, as designed by Lyle Hess. The flush deck is longer but offhand I don't remember by how much. 7.16 seems a bit light. My drawing room is a wreck right now because of some drawing I'm doing for Sage, but when I run across the flush deck sailplan I'll post it here.
I know that Eg moved the headstay fitting back several inches; as to why I have no idea. Decreases performance, weakens the rig (I've fixed several of them that were cracking out by taking them back to the original). Unless he moved the mast aft a corresponding amount the J would be decreased. Sounds like something a non -sailor would do.
-----Original Message----- From: Henry Rodriguez Sent: Friday, May 27, 2016 5:53 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Genoa size...
Jerry, could you chime in and help clarify the differences in the M17 "J" measurements ?
Tim and Gary, I'm aware of the Sailrite data and have a copy of the handwritten chart of sail sizes in my files. That's where the 6.58 J measurement comes from. But on the MSOG web site under "Measurements as supplied by Jerry Montgomery" the M17 J is shown as 7.16 The tall rig is shown as having the same 7.16 J. No info on the flush deck version. I would think getting the J measurement for a flush deck boat would be a simple matter of measuring from the forestay fitting to the mast. Not so simple with a conventional boat; the cabin is in the way. You can get an approximation but not an exact measurement. I suppose you can using trig and math too advanced for my simple brain. My 1979 boat has the bow fitting for the forestay all the way forward. I know that some later models have the fitting mounted quite a bit further aft. Could that be the reason for the different published measurements?
Tim, I would love to see the dimensions of your reacher and 150 if you don't mind posting them.
Henry
On Friday, May 27, 2016, Timothy JarviMD <tjarvi@esnm.us> wrote:
Sailrite has some of the original handwritten sail sizes and dimensions:
http://fabric-calculator.sailrite.com/ShowAd.aspx?id=5832&SourceID=%200%20&BoatName=MONTGOMERY+17
Also I had a local friend who's a big boat engineer/sailboat cruiser and racer/local rep for Mack Sails come measure my flush deck 17 to get it right on the money for my odd duck of a 17. We climbed all around the boat for a while with a long tape measure. You probably have the same ability to find a maker there. There are a few articles in the depths of MSOG.org where Jerry M talks about his "suit" of sail for the M17 and the Sage 17, though that's a fractional rigged boat. He was a big fan of a super light BIG reacher as well as a 150. Both of which I have if there's any interest in dimensions (not too many flush decks though). Have fun! New sails from my late 70's M17: wow!
Tim
On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 1:40 AM, GILASAILR--- via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;>> wrote:
Henry,
I have a rigging drawing dated '1973' that shows the 'J' dimension as 6'-7" - you are fine at that number - that is approx. .04" less than > 'J' - as my grandson likes to say (20 mo) "OOhh myy!
We can ask Jerry if the 7.16' is for the flush deck??
Have Fun Go sailing.
GO
In a message dated 5/26/2016 8:33:50 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, heinzir@gmail.com <javascript:;> writes:
I have seen two different figures published for the "J" measurement of the M17: 6.58 ft and 7.16 ft. I'm guessing that the longer one is for the original (and newest?) boats that have the forestay pinned at the tip of the bow and the shorter is for the newer style boats that have the forestay pinned back from the bow about 6".
I think I ordered sails using the shorter "J" measurement and shortchanged myself! My 150 is actually 137 and my 135 is closer to 125!
Henry
On Thursday, May 26, 2016, <swwheatley@comcast.net <javascript:;>> wrote:
Genoa size is luff perpendicular (LP) expressed a percentage of the J measurement. LP is the length of a line drawn from the clew to the forestay intersecting the forestay at a 90 degree angle. The J measurement is the length of a line from the forestay pin back to the mast intersecting the mast at a 90 degree angle. On an M17 it is an imaginary line because the mast doesn't actually extend down that far down. There is some conflicting info out there but I believe the J measurement on an M17 is approximately 6 1/2'. Maybe someone else can chime in with the exact number. Measure your LP and compare it to that to determine what you have. For example, an LP of 10' corresponds roughly to a 150 genoa.
If your genoa is an older hank-on, it is probably a 150. If it is on a roller-furler, it might be a little smaller. I run a 135, which is a popular size for a roller furling genoa.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jazzy" <jazzydaze@gmail.com <javascript:;> <javascript:;>> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> <javascript:;>> Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2016 2:41:37 PM Subject: M_Boats: Genoa size...
Hi all, was just pondering my tired sails. How does one know what > size Genoa is installed? Thanks!
Couple of updates...
Stoked for Mem Day...trailering to Pleasant Harbor Marina where we have a slot for a night, full amenities and a motor couple coming to join > the festivities. Should be good pirate fun.
Last week I took my friends son out. He's 18 and had never been in a sailboat, we spent a few hours tooling around the harbor, I worked > him hard on terminology, parking, stopping at random buoys, starting and stopping the motor, approaching objects slowly... boy was he surprised when I hopped off and told him to take a solo lap at the end of the day! Hahaha. Reminded me of flight instructor days. His dad told me afterward he couldn't stop talking about it. Now dad wants to go. Maybe got us two new sailors... do share your boats and teach some youngsters! What's a dock ding or two compared to passing the torch?? Hahaha. A bonus was that I got to see my boat cruising around. They are quite graceful and salty looking when off their trailer aren't they ? ;) Much sexier than the Harbor 20 that was buzzing around.
Found a slip for 110 a month 8 minutes from home...sooo tempted. Comments? Is the bottom going to hell in a hand basket?
Jazz
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