PS on the main halyard to cockpit - more details below if anyone wants. I can get some better pictures when I get the boat in the water, hopefully by mid-July. The relatively short version is, one block attached with eye strap to mast base/tabernacle (only partly visible in pic) turns halyard at base of mast. One block on cabin top (fully visible in pic) turns halyard aft to cam cleat mounted near aft edge of cabin top. There was already a flared/line guide type eye strap a ways up the mast above the OEM halyard cleat, which keeps the halyard close to the mast down to that point. If not present you'd probably want to add one. The two blocks and one eye strap are from Racelite, and the cam cleat is from Ronstan. I attached the first turning block on the mast base/tabernacle, with the eye strap aligned vertically, for several reasons: 1) two less holes in cabin top! 2) heavy strong stainless plate to attach to (vs. fiberglass cabin top needing backing plate), and, force is on mast base & mast not cabin top. 3) with eye strap oriented vertically, block hangs down in natural alignment with halyard, No need for 'stand-up'/spring block. Little to no chance of a tangle/jam from block flopping sideways relative to halyard. 4) vertically oriented holes for eye strap can be well forward/clear of any interference with base of mast when raising/lowering (if strap were horizontal then aft eye strap bolt location could interfere). Yes, it adds a bit of friction to the halyard run. Not enough to be any kind of problem in my experience. You could spend 2 or 3 or probably even 5 times as much on the blocks, get fancier larger diameter ball bearing ones, for a bit less added friction. The ability to haul back on the halyard, thru a cam cleat, from a braced position in cockpit more than makes up for the two extra turns, for me. I could probably throw it on the starboard winch even. Can't imagine needing to though. Beats standing on/in the companionway or hunkering on cabin top trying to keep it tight while cleating off, or trying to uncleat in a hurry. I did that for the first three years or so... cheers, John On 6/29/21 9:49 AM, John Schinnerer wrote: ...
Re the main halyard, I ran mine (M17) to cockpit a few years back and for single-handing it is a big improvement, safety and efficiency.
Especially when needing to reef quickly, or drop the main quickly for any reason. I don't have to leave the cockpit and tiller and sheets to reach the main halyard and de-power the boat.
There's only two blocks and a cam cleat, simple and clean, minimal odds of tangles or jamming. Many many larger boats have similar setups, it is proven to work.
I've attached a crop of the only pic I seem to have at present that shows my main halyard to cockpit setup. The bottom of the turning block at base of mast is cut off, but you can see the rest OK (green line is the main halyard).
cheers, John
On 6/29/21 9:08 AM, Dave Scobie wrote:
Ernst:
Welcome to the group.
I only recommend leading the jib halyard aft. Reason: adjusting jib luff tension.
The main and reefing hardware should stay at the mast. Why: faster, easier and less prone to jams and problems.
To raise/lower the main and put in/out a reef is faster and safely done sitting in the cabin top with legs hanging into the cabin.
If correctly set up, lines all at the mast, a reef is easily done in under a minute ... 30 seconds with practice. I've used the same sytem, as Jerry designed, on the M15, M17, Sage 15 and Sage 17.
I've covered the details on reefing and raising/lowering the main extensively on the MSOG Facebook page. Are you a member of Facebook?
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com <<-- new site!
On Tue, Jun 29, 2021, 8:57 AM Ernst van Gulijk <Ernst@nteglobal.com> wrote:
Good morning all,
As of last week, I am the proud new owner of a 2007 M-15. I live in central Minnesota, and have been on the lookout for a boat for a couple of years, and surprisingly located one on Craigslist 30 minutes down the road for me. As per the previous owner(s), the boat has seen little to no time on the water during the last 10 years. In learning about the rigging this past weekend, it appears that all is pretty generic - basically how she came from the factory 14 years ago.
A couple questions for the group:
- I am envisioning sailing the boat solo on most occasions, and as such was considering having all control hardware lead to the cockpit. I have read about this, but have not seen any clear instructions/tips how others have done this. Would anyone be able to share some pix as to how they have this set up in their boat? - Secondly, it appears that the main sail has never been reefed. I found a zip lock bag with (what I assume) are various bits and pieces of rope for this arrangement. Here too, I would like to be able to reef from the cockpit. Any suggestions as to what works best (pix would help here too).
In ending, I am not new to sailing, having been the owner of a small 12 foot Kolibri (German) sailboat for a number of years. It's rather small, and its sail plan is pretty basic (main and jib, but no reefing option), but conceptually to same to the M-15. Used more or less as a fair weather boat. With the M-15 I was hoping to gradually work my way up to larger lakes, and potentially end up along the shores of Lake Superior at some point.
I am looking forward to your replies.
Ernst van Gulijk
-----Original Message----- From: Cap Keith <orionkeith@msn.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2021 10:54 AM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: M_Boats: Re: montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 220, Issue 16
Thank you to all regarding the cut-out for an outboard engine! I do appreciate all the insightful information. I enjoy this site... again, thank you
Keith
________________________________ From: montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com < montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2021 7:56:10 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 220, Issue 16
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Motor mount (John Schinnerer) 2. Motor noise reduction - was Re: Re: Motor mount (John Schinnerer) 3. Re: Motor mount (Saltm17) 4. Re: Montgomery site? (Dave Scobie)
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Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2021 14:35:13 -0700 From: John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> Subject: M_Boats: Re: Motor mount To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Message-ID: <4d5a18b9-9a07-fede-c67d-6b06c1b187cb@eco-living.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Ditto that, forgot to mention in my previous post.
It's nice to be able to adjust motor height a bit to match conditions and boat loading if/as necessary.
For me it's always one of two 'down' positions that are only a few inches different, but a few inches can make all the difference sometimes. for example bouncing in chop I can set it a bit deeper so it doesn't cavitate when the stern bounces up.
I think Jerry has said that the notch was partly designed around a particular motor of that era, which was a 2-cycle, so smaller lighter power head, maybe could be turned while in the notch, and maybe it had reverse too?
Anyhow the notch is not well suited to more recent 4-cycle motors with larger power heads...you'd have to enlarge the notch, which is not a minor DIY project.
cheers, John
On 6/27/21 2:01 PM, Michael Witkin via montgomery_boats wrote:
Keith,With the long shaft outboard motor in the cut out, the prop wasn't low enough in the water for the cooling intake unless at least one person was in the boat. When sailing alone, I couldn't start the engine and step onto the dock. Now with a motor mount I can let the engine warm up while I deal with dock lines and gear.Fair Winds,Mike Faiand On Suay, June 27, 2021, 09:27:03 AM PDT, Cap Keith <orionkeith@msn.com> wrote
Hello all,
Just a quick question... I own a M17, 1980 model. Purchased with an attached, adjustable motor mount thru-bolted where the cut out for an outboard. Question: Why not use the existing, cut-out for say, a 4-5hp motor? (Wanting to re-power). cKeith K Ginger Snap
Get Outlook for iOS<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2F aka.ms%2Fo0ukef&data=04%7C01%7CErnst%40nteglobal.com%7C1c0fe5b4a1d a4b6d1c5508d93b163509%7Ca433be3d5ba04873a173a72aee7c225d%7C0%7C0%7C637 605788844434651%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2 luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=ikfrV5ua1KXH4qpZ 4oOgkqD95w5Cs87o2OMolF17VyI%3D&reserved=0>
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334
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Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2021 14:44:43 -0700 From: John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> Subject: M_Boats: Motor noise reduction - was Re: Re: Motor mount To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Message-ID: <b00d25e9-12a6-c879-64df-a022c0e5d964@eco-living.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Also forgot to mention - with the motor on a mount behind the notch, you can put a piece of foam insulation board in the notch, and it makes a significant reduction in motor noise.
I'll post a picture when I get my boat back in action later this summer. I tried this out last year and it really helps cut motor noise.
I started by just propping a throw cushion up where the notch is and that helped a bit.
So I took some scrap XPS foam board (extruded polystyrene - the blue or pink stuff used by builders to insulate foundations etc.), 2" thick, and shaped it to fit in the notch and extend a bit above it.
2.5" would be even better for making a sturdier flange on both sides of the notch, but I happened to have some 2" at the time.
cheers, John
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334
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Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2021 01:42:44 +0000 (UTC) From: Saltm17 <saltm17@aol.com> Subject: M_Boats: Re: Motor mount To: "montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Message-ID: <1147764317.1576490.1624844564785@mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Hi, I've been trying to get on the Montgomery boats site but can't find it. Can you help? Thanks John Edwards
-----Original Message----- From: Henry Rodriguez <heinzir@gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Sun, Jun 27, 2021 3:14 pm Subject: M_Boats: Re: Motor mount
I didn't try to use the motor to steer. My problem was that the motor head intruded in to the cockpit so far when tilted up that it blocked the tiller from swinging all the way over. Not a problem in normal sailing but a pain when approaching my mooring.
Henry
On Sun, Jun 27, 2021, 10:55 AM Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
The reason people don't like the cutout is: can't use motor to steer (easily), and many outboards do not fit.
IMO use the rudder to steer ... just like boats with inboards do.
A Suzuki 4/6 HP long (20") will fit. Do a www-search for 'Larry Yale Montgomery 17 Corn Dog's and you will see pictures of his boat using a Suzuki in the cutout.
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com <<-- new site!
On Sun, Jun 27, 2021, 9:26 AM Cap Keith <orionkeith@msn.com> wrote:
Hello all,
Just a quick question... I own a M17, 1980 model. Purchased with an attached, adjustable motor mount thru-bolted where the cut out for an outboard. Question: Why not use the existing, cut-out for say, a 4-5hp motor? (Wanting to re-power).
Keith K Ginger Snap
Get Outlook for iOS<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F% 2Faka.ms%2Fo0ukef&data=04%7C01%7CErnst%40nteglobal.com%7C1c0fe5b 4a1da4b6d1c5508d93b163509%7Ca433be3d5ba04873a173a72aee7c225d%7C0%7C0 %7C637605788844434651%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLC JQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=ikfrV5 ua1KXH4qpZ4oOgkqD95w5Cs87o2OMolF17VyI%3D&reserved=0>
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Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2021 19:55:36 -0700 From: Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> Subject: M_Boats: Re: Montgomery site? To: Saltm17 <saltm17@aol.com>, For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Message-ID: <CAGjBOA4+62u_N1jg3p_ZX-HS= s5Zai4Q9oDGCBabErwjQqPq0g@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Which site are you referring to John?
msogphotosite.com MSOG.org Facebook page Other
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com <<-- new site!
On Sun, Jun 27, 2021, 6:43 PM Saltm17 via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Hi, I've been trying to get on the Montgomery boats site but can't find it. Can you help? Thanks John Edwards
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End of montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 220, Issue 16 *************************************************
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com