John- there is quite a bit to discuss on this- if you'll send me your ph # and a good tome t9 call, incl time zone, i'd be happy to give you a call. Probably best to PM me at jmbn1@outlook.com. jerry ________________________________ From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces+jmbn1=outlook.com@mailman.xmission.com> on behalf of John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2020 10:17 AM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 bow repair On 6/24/20 10:10 AM, Alex Conley wrote: ...
I can explain the first time I found lots of water under the v berth by zealous grandkids spraying away as they helped granddad get the boat ready to sell. But the other times I found just a little moisture- would that be condensation from warm air against cold hull?
Could be condensation, if you're in a climate that promotes that. If it rained on the boat, and/or you washed it down, and then you find a bit of water inside, there could be small leaks from through-deck fittings (pulpit, cleats, blocks, mast step, etc. - basically anything that has a bolt or screw penetrating the deck). cheers, John
Looking forward to sailing, and have learned a ton about fiberglass repair and how this Boat is put together even just planning a repair- so if that crack does expand enough to worry me again, I’ve got a strategy!
Thanks all for the input.
Alex
On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 9:59 PM Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
Alex:
I'm just not seeing, stated after looking at pictures, there being a failure in that location. That area is 1/2"+ of fiberglass and bonding compound. There area is also 'backed' by the bowplate that is thru-bolting the hull/deck joint.
Next there is no connection between the hull liner and the bow. That interior joint you pictured isn't structural. It is aesthetic to hide the gap between the edge of the liner and underside (interior) of the deck.
If there was a failure of the hull deck joint there would be cracking all along the outer gel coat edge and along the bonding putty within the joint. You would see gaps in the bonding putty and maybe pieced falling out. I've seen such damage on a M15 that was squeezed between two much larger boats. (The joint still didn't fail ... it just didn't look nicely finished).
Jerry designed an extremely strong joint - besides it being bonded it is thru bolted every few inches along the port and starboard side (the only section of hull/deck joint without this thru-bolting is the transom).
I think you are seeing cracked gel coat when looking up into the joint at the point of the bow between the two nuts. Maybe the gel coat was applied to thickly (making it brittle) or the nuts were tightened just a bit to much? I doubt the fiberglass and bonding putty are damaged.
You wrote that fastener(s) were rusting. Fasteners holding what? The bow plate fasteners are thru the hull/deck joint. The bow cleat?
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/<http://www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/>
On Mon, Jun 22, 2020, 6:13 PM Alex Conley <conley.alex@gmail.com> wrote:
Dave, thanks for looking at that. Re hearing noises, I have not, but I do think it has grown since I first noticed it, likely in a romping 20 knot /3' chop sail where I doubt I would have heard anything. I have not seen water through the crack between liner and deck (though coloring makes me wonder if it has seeped a touch and bolts behind are rusted) but I do see water under the v-berth (you may remember my posts about rust in the ballast lump down there a year ago). When I next pull her out of the shop I'll do a hose test, but that's the only place I imagine that water coming from. Have to admit I'm slightly intimidated by taking dremel to hull- wish our inland burb had a good boat shop and/or some boatyard mentors!
Alex
On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 12:02 PM Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
Alex:
for the past week I have looked at your pictures and reread your email. yes, the crack in the cabin and external crack in the hull/deck joint 'lip' at the bow are separated by a couple of inches (as your graphic to West shows).
I have some questions - are you seeing any water passing through the crack in the thickened putty between the hull liner and the deck at the forward end of the vberth? have you found any water under the vberth? . Are you hearing creaking or cracking when sailing?
:: Dave Scobie :: SV SWALLOW - https://sv-swallow.comf :: Montgomery 6'8" #650 :: Truck camper - https://truckpopupcamper.wordpress.com/ :: Ramblings - https://scoobsramblings.wordpress.com/ :: former M17 owner #375 SWEET PEA - https://m17-375.com/ <http://www.m17-375.webs.com/> :: former M15 owner #288 - http://www.freewebs.com/m15-name-scred
On Wednesday, June 17, 2020, 5:44:03 PM PDT, Alex Conley < conley.alex@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello all,
The attached pdf gives a good overview of the crack in the bow of
my M15
and my repair thoughts (I prepared it to send to one of the West System tech advisors). Any input and advice any of you have would be most welcome- I'm a newbie to fiberglass repair and I'm looking forward to getting this fixed so I too can get the boat in the water!
A secondary question- I'm actually starting to wonder if I should repair from inside. If I do open up the hull liner, is it worth adding a bow eye bolted through the stem? Has anyone retrofitted one and what would be the best way to install it? For those boats with one from the factory, how is it reinforced on the inside of the stem?
Hope others are enjoying the sailing season!
Alex Conley conley.alex@gmail.com
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com