When I had Lyle design the 17 I gave him about 6 mo worth of sketches, indicating what I wanted the boat to be like. In my sketches I drew it both as a fixed keel, similar to the Cal 20, which was a very popular boat in S CA at that time, and as a keel centerboarder. Lyle talked me out of the keel C/B concept and wanted a drop keel, similar to the Ventures, Catalina 22, and the Balboa 20, and designed a threaded rod setup to raise it rather than the trailing wire like the others. His motivation was that he thought of the 17 as a smaller, cheaper verion of the Balboa 20, which is a good boat, but I was not excited about making a price boat. He wasn't excited about the keel/CB because of concerns about righting moment, and the knowledge that the drop keel would sit a bit lower on the trailer, which was a help in launching. The drop keel doesn't have the ballast weight as low as a typical drop keel but it's close enough that the advantages far outweigh the disadvantage, at least in my mind. That's why we initially went with the drop keel. We first built the 17 with the cast iron fixed keel, then finished the tooling for the drop keel version and made about 20 of those, but I really wasn't happy with it. It took a lot of muscle and too much time to raise, and at speed there was a lot of sound and a lot of drag coming from the void (for the keel) in the bottom of the boat. I browbeat Lyle into refining the keel/CB that I had originally intended and retooled again. it was a real success. A 17 owner who had become a good friend (there are a few of those) got a serious case of biggerboatitus and sold the 17 and bought some kind of bigger deathtrap. That didn't last long, and he talked me into making him another boat, this time a fixed keel because he kept his boats in the water. I had made the original foundry pattern for the iron keel and it disappeared, along with Globe Iron Foundry, when they were banished by the EPA. A classic case of government in action. After a lot of talk and a few beers we decided to make a mold based on the keel of the keel/CB configuration, which extended the keel down a foot or so. He was delighted with the boat and last I heard still has it. it's probably a better set-up than the original iron keel because of maintenance, including the need to replace the bolts on the iron keel every 30 or 50 years or so. They were the same as used on the Cal 20, made of forged grade 8 steel, triple galvanized. Stainless is no good for this application because of internal electrolysis, also grade 8 bolts are far stronger. Incidentally, I still have a box of these bolts and nuts somewhere. I suggest that these be inspected when boats are hauled for re-finishing. It's as simple as pulling one out and take a look. You need a BIG wrench. Clear as mud? ________________________________ From: Jon Barber <brbrbarber@gmail.com> Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2022 8:30 AM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: M_Boats: Crank up keel Jerry, Will you elaborate about the crank up keel as "designed by Lyle Hess". It now seems that the M17 was offered with 4 keel configurations. Fixed cast iron bolt on Fixed fiberglass with ballast Keel centerboard Crank up cast iron. I'm so confused? The more I read about these great boats the more I find I need to learn. Being able to easily launch and retrieve my boat has allowed me to experience sailing in many different environments. I have sailed all over N. California in the last 6 years, from delta to ocean to sf Bay and found my boat able to handle everything I have encountered. I've always made it home safe. That was the driving design consideration when the boat was concieved, and it has succeeded admirably. Jon Barber Monty17 Ol'44