Older M17s have a jam cleat behind the winch to hold the sheet; newer ones have a clamcleat. A few of us have customized setups - mine came with the original jam cleats, and also cam cleats further aft (too far aft) on the coaming. I've changed that already but will be changing it again soon (see further below). My guess from your picture is that the jib sheet was led thru the forward block (fancy nautical term for pulley :-), then to the aft one, then back up to the winch. From the look of it, leading the sheet from the forward block direct to the winch would have it chafing on the cockpit coaming...which you generally don't want to do. For the port winch anyhow, which leads from the outside. But on the other side, the winch leads from the other side and coming from the rear block (or the front block) might chafe the coaming. Also, the forward block could be positioned for a smaller jib and the aft block a larger jib, either one going direct to winch (chafing be hanged...). My M17 has the aluminum toe rail also, but came with a pair of clip-on swivel blocks for jib sheet. So they could be moved easily to different holes to suit jib size/sheet angle. Since I switched to a cruising cut furling jib - higher clew - my jib sheet blocks need to be further back on the rail to get the right angle on the jib sheet. Last season I used a pair of blocks on each side, somewhat like your pic but clip-on swivel blocks. Sheet went to aft block, then to forward block, then to winch (to keep sheet from crossing over itself on way from aft block to winch, also to keep it off the coaming). I will be changing that as soon as I have time, to run the sheet aft to a block attached to the toe rail with a soft shackle (instead of metal swivel clip), then direct to a swiveling eye/cam cleat on the coaming. I never use the winches to actually trim the sail, so they are just a hassle to wrap and release with every tack. I moved the fixed cam cleats forward to a more usable position and with a better angle for set/release...better but still not great. New setup will be easier to cleat/uncleat, easier to trim, quicker/easier tacking, less friction overall, and with the soft shackles no thrashing of metal swivel clips on metal rail when jib sheets flap around when tacking. Henry's Monita has this setup or close to it, I had posted something last year on thinking about doing this and he'd already done it...thanks for testing it out Henry! :-) cheers, John On 5/20/20 7:31 PM, Rob Bultman wrote:
With the photo...
On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 10:31 PM Rob Bultman <rob.bultman@gmail.com> wrote:
Tim,
I only count 5 cleats on the boat, one on the bow and two on the top of the cockpit coaming (if I am using the term correctly) on either side of the boat, one just aft of the winch and one towards the stern. I assumed that the cleats just aft of the winches were meant to secure the jib sheet on a particular point of sail. Other boats I have sailed typically have a v-cleat or cam cleat instead of a "yacht" cleat for securing a jib sheet.
There are two pulleys (fairleads?) on each side of the boat, one about even with the rear of the cabin and one about even with the cleat just aft of the winch. These are tied to the perforated toe rail with 3 strands of small line. I assumed that the forward ones were used to lead the jib sheet towards the winches, which is how I planned to use them. I'm not sure what the rear ones were used for.
The attached photo shows the positions of the two pulleys and cleat on the port side.
Regards, Rob
On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 8:23 PM TIm Brown <tim-brown@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Rob...
It is the cleat you have bolted to the toe rail. It looks like the previous owner fabricated it from the picture. I have a jib furler line that I would like to cleat about where that cleat seems to be located on your boat.
Tim
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats [mailto: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Rob Bultman Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 10:19 AM To: John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net>; For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: outboard questions
Tim, you will have to forgive me. The boat is rigged as I received from the previous owner, and being new to sailing I don't know what a springline cleat is!
On Wed, May 20, 2020, 1:16 PM Rob Bultman <rob.bultman@gmail.com> wrote:
John, both Mercury and Tohatsu are making 20" propane models.
On Wed, May 20, 2020, 12:55 PM John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Is someone making a 20" shaft propane now? I looked into the Lehr models but they only had short shaft a couple years ago. They are a bit heavier for same HP as gas motors (2.3 and 3.5 hp gas that is - as mentioned if you go to 4 hp you have the weight of a 6 hp).
More shortly re my setup...
cheers, John
On 5/20/20 8:21 AM, Rob Bultman wrote:
Thanks or the replies so far. I'm frankly on the fence regarding gas vs propane. I'm leaning towards the Mercury 5 HP sail power model, 20" long shaft, mostly because it has reverse on the handle. Is the 20" adequate or is the extra long shaft better?
Dave - I have a 1977 M17 with the cutout. I've attach two photos that I happen to have that show the transom of my actual boat. What is the concern here?
Thanks, Rob
On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 10:17 AM Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
> Rob: > > First a question for you - what year is your M17? There is one > issue that > relates to the older 'first desk version' Mk1 boats with the > outboard cutout in the transom that is different than the second > generation Mk2 boats. > > A 4HP motor is more than enough for the M17. Sadly there are no > more true > 4HP motors made - most are now the same as a 6HP with de-rated carbs. This > also means the motors weigh more than a true 4HP motor. Weight > aft is bad. (Motor I always wish I had was the true 4HP Yamaha.). > The new Honda > 4/5/6 are excellent but way to heavy. I had a Suzuki 4 (6 is the > same motor with external tank and alternator options). > > Place your external tank at the aft end of the cockpit footwell. > Two > reasons: #1 is the aft locker of the Mk2 boats is NOT safe for > fuel storage > as it is open to the cabin. #2 is the fuel can sitting at the aft > end of > the cockpit will encourage you to sit at the proper location near > the head > of the tiller NOT at the back of the cockpit! For most M17s this sitting > location is just aft of the cockpit mainsheet floor traveler track (again > there are some differences in the boats with traveler placement). > > The gas can doesn't get in the way. > > Propane has some negatives - mainly fuel tank storage, less range, > refilling when cruising and the Lehr build quality is poor. IMO gasoline > is still the best bet for a cruiser. > > > :: Dave Scobie > :: M6'8" #650 > :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com > :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com > :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/ > > > On Wed, May 20, 2020, 4:31 AM Rob Bultman <rob.bultman@gmail.com> wrote: > >> I'm looking at getting an outboard for my M17 and I have a few questions. >> >> 1) If you have an external fuel tank, where do you keep it when >> you are >> under sail? >> 2) If you have an external fuel tank, where do you keep it when >> you are >> under power? >> 3) To what degree does the fuel tank get in the way either when >> under > sail >> or power? >> 4) Any opinions on gasoline vs propane outboards? >> >> Thanks, >> Rob >> >
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com