Hi, I need to replace the spreaders on my 1978 M-17. My current spreaders are 24" long and mounted on a rotating SS"U" brackets. Dwyermast has 1" diameter tubes that are 31" long. Of course I could cut them down to 24" but would like to know what the original or recommended spreader length is. Also, is there any feeling about the mount. Dwyermast has a fixed plug for sale for the 1" spreader. While the U bracket is convenient for taking down and putting up the mast, is there any structural difference. In rough weather, I have noticed that sometimes the spreaders lose their set. Thanks in advance for any perspective. Randy Wirth -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 12:05 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 109, Issue 26 Send montgomery_boats mailing list submissions to montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com You can reach the person managing the list at montgomery_boats-owner@mailman.xmission.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of montgomery_boats digest..." Today's Topics: 1. be aware if you have M 15 and are getting a new jib (Flickasf) 2. Re: be aware if you have M 15 and are getting a new jib (W David Scobie) 3. Re: M17 Storm Sails (Judith Blumhorst, DC) 4. Re: M17 Storm Sails (W David Scobie) 5. sailplans for Monty 15 (Karen and Smiley) 6. Sail Measurements Confusion (Jeffrey Johnston) 7. Re: Sail Measurements Confusion (jerry montgomery) 8. Re: Sail Measurements Confusion (jerry montgomery) 9. Re: Sail Measurements Confusion (Jeffrey Johnston) 10. Re: Sail Measurements Confusion (Judith Blumhorst, DC) 11. Re: Sail Measurements Confusion (jerry montgomery) 12. Re: Sail Measurements Confusion (Judith Blumhorst, DC) 13. Re: Sail Measurements Confusion (Judith Blumhorst, DC) 14. Fw: Sail Measurements Confusion (Judith Blumhorst, DC) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 21:56:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Flickasf <flickasf@aol.com> To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: M_Boats: be aware if you have M 15 and are getting a new jib Message-ID: <8CEDC2F7275A8EF-11C0-2034@webmail-d062.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Note: if you are getting a new jib made for a M 15 be aware that the forestays on the earlier boats, perhaps all of Jerry's, have a slightly shorter forestay. I had Pettison make one for me using the measurements from Bob's new 15's (I ordered the sail in 2010) and it had to be shortened. Bert Felton ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 19:10:04 -0700 (PDT) From: W David Scobie <wdscobie@yahoo.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: be aware if you have M 15 and are getting a new jib Message-ID: <1333073404.98009.YahooMailClassic@web162701.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 do as Bert says, there are differences between the rigs over the years and possibly from a modification from a prior owners. the Glessers had Bert's experience with they purchased a new set of sails for their M15. measure your current set of sails to 'get an idea' of the 'ballpark numbers'. not 100% perfect because your old sails are likely stretched. it is best to get rig measurements from the boat when she is rigged. :: Dave Scobie :: Sage Marine --- On Thu, 3/29/12, Flickasf <flickasf@aol.com> wrote:
Note:? if you are getting a new jib made for a M 15 be aware that the forestays on the earlier boats, perhaps all of Jerry's, have a slightly shorter forestay.? I had Pettison make one for me using the measurements from Bob's new 15's (I ordered the sail in 2010) and it had to be shortened.
Bert Felton
------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 19:17:21 -0700 (PDT) From: "Judith Blumhorst, DC" <drjudyb@blumhorst.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: M17 Storm Sails Message-ID: <1333073841.23507.YahooMailNeo@web5707.biz.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Nope.? The 128% goes on the M15, Jerry's rig dimensions and sailplan works out to 151 square feet with a (theoretical) 100% jib.? His plans for the M17 show: 170% with a luff of 22.42 (about 95-ish percent of max forestay length)? 150% with a luff of 22.42'? (the luff would have to be a little shorter for use on a roller furler.) 109% with a luff of 21.5' 80% with a luff of 19.25' 60% with a luff of 12' However, Bob Eeg has given me slightly different dimensions for his M17 rig so the sails are dimensioned ever so slightly differently.?? Bob's changes to the rig works means it pencils out at 148 sf.? ? The most significant difference is that his OEM 109% jibs are about a foot shorter on the luff.? Judy Blumhorst Hyde Sails of Northern California www.judybsails.com?? judy@judybsails.com cell: 925.208.1692 fax: 925.820.2327 skype: judith.blumhorst www.HydeSails.com/NorthAmerica ? ________________________________ From: Jeffrey Johnston <frjeff@gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 5:43 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M17 Storm Sails Is the storm jib the 80%? And the "working jib" the 128%? Jeff On Mar 29, 2012 6:33 PM, "jerry montgomery" <jerry@jerrymontgomery.org> wrote:
Joe- the storm jib is on the sailplan, which Harry and judy have.? It's pretty small but works great.? You can sail upwind with the storm jib and a single-reefed main in a 25 knot wind and point hi and go like crazy.
jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Murphy" <seagray@embarqmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.** xmission.com <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 1:58 PM Subject: M_Boats: M17 Storm Sails
Does anyone have a storm sail? If so, where did you get it and how much did you pay for it? How do you fly it? Do you have a separate track? Boy, that sounds pretty nosey of me. Thanks Joe SeaFrog ? ----- Original Message -----? From: W David Scobie ? To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats ? Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 4:23 PM ? Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 Foresail Size??
? the jib currently made by Elliot/Pattison Sailmakers for the M15 is 128%. get a jib the size that E/P is now making.
? for your quoted wind speeds, as you stated, a second reef point is nice insurance.? in my opinion (IMO) you should tuck in a second reef when the wind goes about 17/18 knots on the M15.? once the wind gets above the low-ish 20s you need a smaller jib.
? :: Dave Scobie ? :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-**scred<http://www.freewebs.com/m15-named-sc red> ? :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com ? :: Sage Marine - www.sagemarine.com
? --- On Thu, 3/29/12, Jeffrey Johnston <frjeff@gmail.com> wrote: ? > ? > If I'm to order new main and jib for ? > my Monty 15 (which I'm likely to do ? > soon): ? > ? > What size range (100%, 110%, 120%, etc) jib makes the most ? > sense. I believe ? > the boat came standard with a 100%. I can only afford one ? > jib at present. ? > ? > My sailing will be primarily near shore Great Lakes (Lake ? > Huron, Tawas Bay, ? > North Channel, Georgian Bay) and smaller inland lakes. I'm ? > guessing my ? > winds typically to be 5-18 MPH. My main will have two ? > reefs. ? > ? > Thanks for any and all advice. ? > ? > ? > *Jeff+* ? > Mol?n labe! ? >
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------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 20:24:10 -0700 (PDT) From: W David Scobie <wdscobie@yahoo.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: M17 Storm Sails Message-ID: <1333077850.42625.YahooMailClassic@web162703.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 first time i read judy's post i got confused for a second and thought ... WOW that reads like a lot of sail on an M15.? a second reading i saw that there is a 'boat being discussed' change between the first and second paragraphs. i use the word 'about' as each loft will cut the sail just a bit differently. M15 has about 122 sq.ft. of sail in the 'working' configuration (full main and 128% jib). a jerry M17 has about 151 sq.ft. based on judy's report (or 154 sq ft on jerry's brochure) in 'working' configuration (full main and 100% jib) remember that the M15 is really 'powered' by the main.? put two reefs in the main before going to a storm jib.? don't luff the main on the M15 ... she doesn't handle this well because of her lack of a backstay. it is no fun doing a headsail change on an M15 when the seas and wind have increased.? keep in mind before leaving the dock and you 'think' you may need the storm jib.? best to go out and change to a larger jib in seas and wind that are decreasing. the M15 will sail well with a double reefed main and a 128% jib just above 20kts of wind.? in my opinion the M15 will not sail well to weather under jib or main alone ... you need both sails pulling! :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com :: Sage Marine - www.sagemarine.com --- On Thu, 3/29/12, Judith Blumhorst, DC <drjudyb@blumhorst.com> wrote:
Nope.? The 128% goes on the M15, Jerry's rig dimensions and sailplan works out to 151 square feet with a (theoretical) 100% jib.? His plans for the M17 show:
170% with a luff of 22.42 (about 95-ish percent of max forestay length)? 150% with a luff of 22.42'? (the luff would have to be a little shorter for use on a roller furler.) 109% with a luff of 21.5' 80% with a luff of 19.25' 60% with a luff of 12'
However, Bob Eeg has given me slightly different dimensions for his M17 rig so the sails are dimensioned ever so slightly differently.?? Bob's changes to the rig works means it pencils out at 148 sf.? ? The most significant difference is that his OEM 109% jibs are about a foot shorter on the luff.?
Judy Blumhorst Hyde Sails of Northern California www.judybsails.com?? judy@judybsails.com
cell: 925.208.1692 fax: 925.820.2327 skype: judith.blumhorst www.HydeSails.com/NorthAmerica ?
________________________________ ? From: Jeffrey Johnston <frjeff@gmail.com> Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 5:43 PM ? Is the storm jib the 80%? And the "working jib" the 128%?
Jeff
------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 07:10:11 -0400 From: "Karen and Smiley" <magoo252@comcast.net> To: "Montgomery Sailboat Forum" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: M_Boats: sailplans for Monty 15 Message-ID: <001301cd0e65$aecbf3e0$0c63dba0$@net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Last year after my used purchase of M 15 #616 I sent my old sails to Dr Judy B and she measured them, she made me a new set of Hyde sails which are just superb. For insurance sake I went ahead and bought a new Potter 15 jib to use as insurance as a storm jib. I had done something similar for my Precision 21 and probably used that storm jib twice if my memory serves me right so the storm jib to me was plan B and nothing else. Got two reef points on the main sail. Judy B knows her stuff and she'd get my vote as the new old kid on the block cutting sails for Monties. New crisp well cut sails make any sailboat hummmm, I won't sail without a good well made suit of canvas..thanks Judy B J Smiley, Another Wrinkle M15 #616 magoo252@comcast.net ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 07:48:37 -0500 From: Jeffrey Johnston <frjeff@gmail.com> To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: M_Boats: Sail Measurements Confusion Message-ID: <CAFS5qAtz1qLdti2CqZP7aTqRc7P8yx+DLaYfXoBFgy=-DkNK6g@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 I am attempting to measure my M15 to determine if it is "standard" sail measurements or not. I already have determined that it is a bit different than some specifications given for mast length: my mast length appears to be 19'2" (Hull 176 - 1981). My confusion lies in the "I" measurement. Some measuring guides tell me to measure from the jib halyard block down to the deck (the cabin top). Another says to measure down to the deck sheer line (as if there were no cabin). Not sure how one would get that number in an attempt to guesstimate where that sheer line would be on our 15's. Which of these is the correct "I" measurement for a sail loft when having sails made? Jeff PS - It appears that I may never run out of questions for this group. Thankful that this group is so patient and helpful. *Jeff+* Mol?n labe! ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 07:59:57 -0700 From: "jerry montgomery" <jerry@jerrymontgomery.org> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sail Measurements Confusion Message-ID: <769CCC23E5414C189BB2351A71C8919E@jerryws10> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"; reply-type=original Actually, it goes down to the extended deck line, not the sheer. You pretty much need a sailplan drawing to do it accurately, because you need to project the deck line aft, on the centerline, ignoring the house, to the point where the extended front edge of the mast would intersect with it. You use the same imaginary point for calculating the J. When you measured the mast, you didn't include the masthead, did you? It should be 10' even; I just doublechecked the sailplan. #176 would be one of the boats that I made, and I used to buy the masts directly from the extruder, 1000 lbs at a time, cut to length. If it's longer than that, its got to be an aftermarket mast. I told someone incorrectly, a while back, that the mast was 19'6", but that was the M-12 I was thinking of. Hope this helps. If you have decided on a sailmaker, I understand that he/she can get a sailplan off the internet. If not, have them email me. jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey Johnston" <frjeff@gmail.com> To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 5:48 AM Subject: M_Boats: Sail Measurements Confusion I am attempting to measure my M15 to determine if it is "standard" sail measurements or not. I already have determined that it is a bit different than some specifications given for mast length: my mast length appears to be 19'2" (Hull 176 - 1981). My confusion lies in the "I" measurement. Some measuring guides tell me to measure from the jib halyard block down to the deck (the cabin top). Another says to measure down to the deck sheer line (as if there were no cabin). Not sure how one would get that number in an attempt to guesstimate where that sheer line would be on our 15's. Which of these is the correct "I" measurement for a sail loft when having sails made? Jeff PS - It appears that I may never run out of questions for this group. Thankful that this group is so patient and helpful. *Jeff+* Mol?n labe! ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 08:36:47 -0700 From: "jerry montgomery" <jerry@jerrymontgomery.org> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sail Measurements Confusion Message-ID: <ED456B1D813344BABEAE5D6AC90C9751@jerryws10> Content-Type: text/plain; format="flowed"; charset="utf-8"; reply-type="response" Whoops, another typo- the mast should be 19', not 10, unless you really want to go slow. jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "jerry montgomery" <jerry@jerrymontgomery.org> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 7:59 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sail Measurements Confusion
Actually, it goes down to the extended deck line, not the sheer. You pretty much need a sailplan drawing to do it accurately, because you need to project the deck line aft, on the centerline, ignoring the house, to the point where the extended front edge of the mast would intersect with it. You use the same imaginary point for calculating the J.
When you measured the mast, you didn't include the masthead, did you? It should be 10' even; I just doublechecked the sailplan. #176 would be one of the boats that I made, and I used to buy the masts directly from the extruder, 1000 lbs at a time, cut to length. If it's longer than that, its got to be an aftermarket mast.
I told someone incorrectly, a while back, that the mast was 19'6", but that was the M-12 I was thinking of. Hope this helps.
If you have decided on a sailmaker, I understand that he/she can get a sailplan off the internet. If not, have them email me.
jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey Johnston" <frjeff@gmail.com> To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 5:48 AM Subject: M_Boats: Sail Measurements Confusion
I am attempting to measure my M15 to determine if it is "standard" sail measurements or not.
I already have determined that it is a bit different than some specifications given for mast length: my mast length appears to be 19'2" (Hull 176 - 1981).
My confusion lies in the "I" measurement. Some measuring guides tell me to measure from the jib halyard block down to the deck (the cabin top). Another says to measure down to the deck sheer line (as if there were no cabin). Not sure how one would get that number in an attempt to guesstimate where that sheer line would be on our 15's.
Which of these is the correct "I" measurement for a sail loft when having sails made?
Jeff
PS - It appears that I may never run out of questions for this group. Thankful that this group is so patient and helpful.
*Jeff+* Mol?n labe!
-- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 6335 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 10:56:29 -0500 From: Jeffrey Johnston <frjeff@gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sail Measurements Confusion Message-ID: <CAFS5qAviPw-61xZYkevScKumiMoF-nEmd7VPrYdYtb8Om-H6vw@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Jerry, You are a treat to have handy! Not sure what you mean when you state that: *"You didn't include the masthead did you? It should be 10' even".* I measured top to bottom (excluding any windex, etc.) Not sure what you are referring to as the "masthead"? The specs say that the J should be 15'4". I get 13'8" down to the cabin top. Do you think I'd get the additional 1'8" (to equal 15'4") if we added the distance down to the extended line. If so, then I'd be right on. Many thanks! *Jeff+* Mol?n labe! * * On Sat, Mar 31, 2012 at 9:59 AM, jerry montgomery <jerry@jerrymontgomery.org
wrote:
Actually, it goes down to the extended deck line, not the sheer. You pretty much need a sailplan drawing to do it accurately, because you need to project the deck line aft, on the centerline, ignoring the house, to the point where the extended front edge of the mast would intersect with it. You use the same imaginary point for calculating the J.
When you measured the mast, you didn't include the masthead, did you? It should be 10' even; I just doublechecked the sailplan. #176 would be one of the boats that I made, and I used to buy the masts directly from the extruder, 1000 lbs at a time, cut to length. If it's longer than that, its got to be an aftermarket mast.
I told someone incorrectly, a while back, that the mast was 19'6", but that was the M-12 I was thinking of. Hope this helps.
If you have decided on a sailmaker, I understand that he/she can get a sailplan off the internet. If not, have them email me.
jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey Johnston" <frjeff@gmail.com> To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.**xmission.com<montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.c om>
Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 5:48 AM Subject: M_Boats: Sail Measurements Confusion
I am attempting to measure my M15 to determine if it is "standard" sail measurements or not.
I already have determined that it is a bit different than some specifications given for mast length: my mast length appears to be 19'2" (Hull 176 - 1981).
My confusion lies in the "I" measurement. Some measuring guides tell me to measure from the jib halyard block down to the deck (the cabin top). Another says to measure down to the deck sheer line (as if there were no cabin). Not sure how one would get that number in an attempt to guesstimate where that sheer line would be on our 15's.
Which of these is the correct "I" measurement for a sail loft when having sails made?
Jeff
PS - It appears that I may never run out of questions for this group. Thankful that this group is so patient and helpful.
*Jeff+* Mol?n labe!
------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 10:27:01 -0700 (PDT) From: "Judith Blumhorst, DC" <drjudyb@blumhorst.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sail Measurements Confusion Message-ID: <1333214821.24857.YahooMailNeo@web5716.biz.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 For those of you who wonder what measurements you need to supply to a sail maker, there are two answers.? If you're looking for a quotation, all you need to supply is the I, J,P and E.? If you're off by a couple of inches it won't matter in terms of price.? (In terms of design, 3" on the luff is Once you have chosen your sailmaker, you need to supply a lot more measurement.? However, if the sailmaker has made lots of the same sail before, they may not need all of the measurements.? We usually have a "stock" design that will fit most boats.?? Here are the links to the measurement forms I use.? There are a lot of measurements that go into the design of the sail, include matching mast rake, bow shear, location of genoa tracks, etc.? Headsail measurement form - pdfMainsail measurement form - pdf Headsail measurement form - xlsm Mainsail measurement form -xlxm ? Judy Blumhorst Hyde Sails of Northern California www.judybsails.com?? judy@judybsails.com cell: 925.208.1692 fax: 925.820.2327 skype: judith.blumhorst www.HydeSails.com/NorthAmerica ? ________________________________ From: jerry montgomery <jerry@jerrymontgomery.org> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 7:59 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sail Measurements Confusion Actually, it goes down to the extended deck line, not the sheer.? You pretty much need a sailplan drawing to do it accurately, because you need to project the deck line aft, on the centerline, ignoring the house, to the point where the extended front edge of the mast would intersect with it. You use the same imaginary point for calculating the J. When you measured the mast, you didn't include the masthead, did you?? It should be 10' even; I just doublechecked the sailplan.? #176 would be one of the boats that I made, and I used to buy the masts directly from the extruder, 1000 lbs at a time, cut to length.? If it's longer than that, its got to be an aftermarket mast. I told someone incorrectly, a while back, that the mast was 19'6", but that was the M-12 I was thinking of.? Hope this helps. If you have decided on a sailmaker, I understand that he/she can get a sailplan off the internet.? If not, have them email me. jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey Johnston" <frjeff@gmail.com> To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 5:48 AM Subject: M_Boats: Sail Measurements Confusion I am attempting to measure my M15 to determine if it is "standard" sail measurements or not. I already have determined that it is a bit different than some specifications given for mast length: my mast length appears to be 19'2" (Hull 176 - 1981). My confusion lies in the "I" measurement. Some measuring guides tell me to measure from the jib halyard block down to the deck (the cabin top). Another says to measure down to the deck sheer line (as if there were no cabin). Not sure how one would get that number in an attempt to guesstimate where that sheer line would be on our 15's. Which of these is the correct "I" measurement for a sail loft when having sails made? Jeff PS - It appears that I may never run out of questions for this group. Thankful that this group is so patient and helpful. *Jeff+* Mol?n labe! ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 10:29:15 -0700 From: "jerry montgomery" <jerry@jerrymontgomery.org> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sail Measurements Confusion Message-ID: <FBD918D56072429D97CFDF2ADED831CA@jerryws10> Content-Type: text/plain; format="flowed"; charset="utf-8"; reply-type="original" The masthead is the little casting that goes on the top of the mast! When we say the mast is 19', we're talking about just the extrusion, which does n ot include the masthead. When I said 10', it was a typo- I meant 19' (do as I mean, not as I say) Someone famous once said that, but my mind is having another typo and I can't remember who. I don't think it was me! I'm best known for saying "I may be stupid, but I'm not REAL stupid" The addition of 20" seems about right. jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey Johnston" <frjeff@gmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 8:56 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sail Measurements Confusion Jerry, You are a treat to have handy! Not sure what you mean when you state that: *"You didn't include the masthead did you? It should be 10' even".* I measured top to bottom (excluding any windex, etc.) Not sure what you are referring to as the "masthead"? The specs say that the J should be 15'4". I get 13'8" down to the cabin top. Do you think I'd get the additional 1'8" (to equal 15'4") if we added the distance down to the extended line. If so, then I'd be right on. Many thanks! *Jeff+* Mol?n labe! * * On Sat, Mar 31, 2012 at 9:59 AM, jerry montgomery <jerry@jerrymontgomery.org
wrote:
Actually, it goes down to the extended deck line, not the sheer. You pretty much need a sailplan drawing to do it accurately, because you need to project the deck line aft, on the centerline, ignoring the house, to the point where the extended front edge of the mast would intersect with it. You use the same imaginary point for calculating the J.
When you measured the mast, you didn't include the masthead, did you? It should be 10' even; I just doublechecked the sailplan. #176 would be one of the boats that I made, and I used to buy the masts directly from the extruder, 1000 lbs at a time, cut to length. If it's longer than that, its got to be an aftermarket mast.
I told someone incorrectly, a while back, that the mast was 19'6", but that was the M-12 I was thinking of. Hope this helps.
If you have decided on a sailmaker, I understand that he/she can get a sailplan off the internet. If not, have them email me.
jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey Johnston" <frjeff@gmail.com> To:
<montgomery_boats@mailman.**xmission.com<montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.c om>
Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 5:48 AM Subject: M_Boats: Sail Measurements Confusion
I am attempting to measure my M15 to determine if it is "standard" sail measurements or not.
I already have determined that it is a bit different than some specifications given for mast length: my mast length appears to be 19'2" (Hull 176 - 1981).
My confusion lies in the "I" measurement. Some measuring guides tell me to measure from the jib halyard block down to the deck (the cabin top). Another says to measure down to the deck sheer line (as if there were no cabin). Not sure how one would get that number in an attempt to guesstimate where that sheer line would be on our 15's.
Which of these is the correct "I" measurement for a sail loft when having sails made?
Jeff
PS - It appears that I may never run out of questions for this group. Thankful that this group is so patient and helpful.
*Jeff+* Mol?n labe!
-- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 6335 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 10:30:35 -0700 (PDT) From: "Judith Blumhorst, DC" <drjudyb@blumhorst.com> To: "Judith Blumhorst, DC" <drjudyb@blumhorst.com>, For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sail Measurements Confusion Message-ID: <1333215035.51433.YahooMailNeo@web5717.biz.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Those links to measurement instruction got stripped by the mailserver.? Here they are again, in cut and paste form: ftp://Jb1umh0rst@ftp.judybsails.com/Jb1umh0rst/vspfiles/knowlegebase/measure mentforms/HydeNorcal-Genoa-Measurement-v120332.pdf ftp://Jb1umh0rst@ftp.judybsails.com/Jb1umh0rst/vspfiles/knowlegebase/measure mentforms/HydeNorcal-Genoa-Measurement-v120332.xlsm ftp://Jb1umh0rst@ftp.judybsails.com/Jb1umh0rst/vspfiles/knowlegebase/measure mentforms/HydeNorcal-Mainsail-Measurement-V20111113.pdf ftp://Jb1umh0rst@ftp.judybsails.com/Jb1umh0rst/vspfiles/knowlegebase/measure mentforms/HydeNorcal-Mainsail-Measurement-V20111113.xlsm Judy Blumhorst Hyde Sails of Northern California www.judybsails.com?? judy@judybsails.com cell: 925.208.1692 fax: 925.820.2327 skype: judith.blumhorst www.HydeSails.com/NorthAmerica ? ________________________________ From: "Judith Blumhorst, DC" <drjudyb@blumhorst.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 10:27 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sail Measurements Confusion For those of you who wonder what measurements you need to supply to a sail maker, there are two answers.? If you're looking for a quotation, all you need to supply is the I, J,P and E.? If you're off by a couple of inches it won't matter in terms of price.? (In terms of design, 3" on the luff is Once you have chosen your sailmaker, you need to supply a lot more measurement.? However, if the sailmaker has made lots of the same sail before, they may not need all of the measurements.? We usually have a "stock" design that will fit most boats.?? Here are the links to the measurement forms I use.? There are a lot of measurements that go into the design of the sail, include matching mast rake, bow shear, location of genoa tracks, etc.? Headsail measurement form - pdfMainsail measurement form - pdf Headsail measurement form - xlsm Mainsail measurement form -xlxm ? Judy Blumhorst Hyde Sails of Northern California www.judybsails.com?? judy@judybsails.com cell: 925.208.1692 fax: 925.820.2327 skype: judith.blumhorst www.HydeSails.com/NorthAmerica ? ________________________________ From: jerry montgomery <jerry@jerrymontgomery.org> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 7:59 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sail Measurements Confusion Actually, it goes down to the extended deck line, not the sheer.? You pretty much need a sailplan drawing to do it accurately, because you need to project the deck line aft, on the centerline, ignoring the house, to the point where the extended front edge of the mast would intersect with it. You use the same imaginary point for calculating the J. When you measured the mast, you didn't include the masthead, did you?? It should be 10' even; I just doublechecked the sailplan.? #176 would be one of the boats that I made, and I used to buy the masts directly from the extruder, 1000 lbs at a time, cut to length.? If it's longer than that, its got to be an aftermarket mast. I told someone incorrectly, a while back, that the mast was 19'6", but that was the M-12 I was thinking of.? Hope this helps. If you have decided on a sailmaker, I understand that he/she can get a sailplan off the internet.? If not, have them email me. jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey Johnston" <frjeff@gmail.com> To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 5:48 AM Subject: M_Boats: Sail Measurements Confusion I am attempting to measure my M15 to determine if it is "standard" sail measurements or not. I already have determined that it is a bit different than some specifications given for mast length: my mast length appears to be 19'2" (Hull 176 - 1981). My confusion lies in the "I" measurement. Some measuring guides tell me to measure from the jib halyard block down to the deck (the cabin top). Another says to measure down to the deck sheer line (as if there were no cabin). Not sure how one would get that number in an attempt to guesstimate where that sheer line would be on our 15's. Which of these is the correct "I" measurement for a sail loft when having sails made? Jeff PS - It appears that I may never run out of questions for this group. Thankful that this group is so patient and helpful. *Jeff+* Mol?n labe! ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 11:01:29 -0700 (PDT) From: "Judith Blumhorst, DC" <drjudyb@blumhorst.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sail Measurements Confusion Message-ID: <1333216889.89925.YahooMailNeo@web5707.biz.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 ? Judy Blumhorst Hyde Sails of Northern California www.judybsails.com?? judy@judybsails.com cell: 925.208.1692 fax: 925.820.2327 skype: judith.blumhorst www.HydeSails.com/NorthAmerica ? ________________________________ (The third time is the charm, I hope.? Links to downloadable forms are below) If all you want is a quotation, the IJP and E are adequate.? Once you accept the sailmakers quote, the sailmaker will send you a form with the geometry they want and are used to using. Here are measurement forms showing the measurements I require for a custom-fitted sail.? There's enough data here for me to figure out missing measurement using geometry.??? In my experience, customers who measure their rigs before asking the sailmaker for a measurement form don't provide the right geometry to design a sail.? If you send me a different set of measurements, I'm going to require that you fill out this form anyway, following my instructions.? I'm used to doing the geometry a certain way. Headsail measurement forms: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/20774907/measurement-forms/HydeNorcal-Genoa-Measurem ent-v120332.pdf http://dl.dropbox.com/u/20774907/measurement-forms/HydeNorcal-Genoa-Measurem ent-v120332.xlsm Mainsail measurement forms: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/20774907/measurement-forms/HydeNorcal-Mainsail-Measu rement-V20111113.pdf http://dl.dropbox.com/u/20774907/measurement-forms/HydeNorcal-Mainsail-Measu rement-V20111113.xlsm Judy Blumhorst Hyde Sails of Northern California www.judybsails.com?? judy@judybsails.com cell: 925.208.1692 fax: 925.820.2327 skype: judith.blumhorst www.HydeSails.com/NorthAmerica ? ________________________________ From: "Judith Blumhorst, DC" <drjudyb@blumhorst.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 10:27 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sail Measurements Confusion For those of you who wonder what measurements you need to supply to a sail maker, there are two answers.? If you're looking for a quotation, all you need to supply is the I, J,P and E.? If you're off by a couple of inches it won't matter in terms of price.? (In terms of design, 3" on the luff is Once you have chosen your sailmaker, you need to supply a lot more measurement.? However, if the sailmaker has made lots of the same sail before, they may not need all of the measurements.? We usually have a "stock" design that will fit most boats.?? Here are the links to the measurement forms I use.? There are a lot of measurements that go into the design of the sail, include matching mast rake, bow shear, location of genoa tracks, etc.? Headsail measurement form - pdfMainsail measurement form - pdf Headsail measurement form - xlsm Mainsail measurement form -xlxm ? Judy Blumhorst Hyde Sails of Northern California www.judybsails.com?? judy@judybsails.com cell: 925.208.1692 fax: 925.820.2327 skype: judith.blumhorst www.HydeSails.com/NorthAmerica ? ________________________________ From: jerry montgomery <jerry@jerrymontgomery.org> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 7:59 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sail Measurements Confusion Actually, it goes down to the extended deck line, not the sheer.? You pretty much need a sailplan drawing to do it accurately, because you need to project the deck line aft, on the centerline, ignoring the house, to the point where the extended front edge of the mast would intersect with it. You use the same imaginary point for calculating the J. When you measured the mast, you didn't include the masthead, did you?? It should be 10' even; I just doublechecked the sailplan.? #176 would be one of the boats that I made, and I used to buy the masts directly from the extruder, 1000 lbs at a time, cut to length.? If it's longer than that, its got to be an aftermarket mast. I told someone incorrectly, a while back, that the mast was 19'6", but that was the M-12 I was thinking of.? Hope this helps. If you have decided on a sailmaker, I understand that he/she can get a sailplan off the internet.? If not, have them email me. jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey Johnston" <frjeff@gmail.com> To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 5:48 AM Subject: M_Boats: Sail Measurements Confusion I am attempting to measure my M15 to determine if it is "standard" sail measurements or not. I already have determined that it is a bit different than some specifications given for mast length: my mast length appears to be 19'2" (Hull 176 - 1981). My confusion lies in the "I" measurement. Some measuring guides tell me to measure from the jib halyard block down to the deck (the cabin top). Another says to measure down to the deck sheer line (as if there were no cabin). Not sure how one would get that number in an attempt to guesstimate where that sheer line would be on our 15's. Which of these is the correct "I" measurement for a sail loft when having sails made? Jeff PS - It appears that I may never run out of questions for this group. Thankful that this group is so patient and helpful. *Jeff+* Mol?n labe! ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 11:04:41 -0700 (PDT) From: "Judith Blumhorst, DC" <drjudyb@blumhorst.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: M_Boats: Fw: Sail Measurements Confusion Message-ID: <1333217081.68425.YahooMailNeo@web5717.biz.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 (The third time is the charm, I hope.? Links to downloadable forms are below) If all you want is a quotation, the IJP and E are adequate.? Once you accept the sailmakers quote, the sailmaker will send you a form with thegeometry they want and are used to using. Here are measurement forms showing the measurements I require for a custom-fitted sail.? There's enough data here for me to figure out missing measurement using geometry.??? In my experience, customers who measure their rigs before asking the sailmaker for a measurement form don't provide the right geometry to design a sail.? If you send me a different set of measurements, I'm going to require that you fill out this form anyway, following my instructions.? I'm used to doing the geometry a certain way. Headsail measurement forms: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/20774907/measurement-forms/HydeNorcal-Genoa-Measurem ent-v120332.pdf http://dl.dropbox.com/u/20774907/measurement-forms/HydeNorcal-Genoa-Measurem ent-v120332.xlsm Mainsail measurement forms: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/20774907/measurement-forms/HydeNorcal-Mainsail-Measu rement-V20111113.pdf http://dl.dropbox.com/u/20774907/measurement-forms/HydeNorcal-Mainsail-Measu rement-V20111113.xlsm Judy Blumhorst Hyde Sails of Northern California www.judybsails.com?? judy@judybsails.com cell: 925.208.1692 fax: 925.820.2327 skype: judith.blumhorst www.HydeSails.com/NorthAmerica ? ________________________________ From: "Judith Blumhorst, DC" <drjudyb@blumhorst.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 10:27 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sail Measurements Confusion For those of you who wonder what measurements you need to supply to a sail maker, there are two answers.? If you're looking for a quotation, all you need to supply is the I, J,P and E.? If you're off by a couple of inches it won't matter in terms of price.? (In terms of design, 3" on the luff is Once you have chosen your sailmaker, you need to supply a lot more measurement.? However, if the sailmaker has made lots of the same sail before, they may not need all of the measurements.? We usually have a "stock" design that will fit most boats.?? Here are the links to the measurement forms I use.? There are a lot of measurements that go into the design of the sail, include matching mast rake, bow shear, location of genoa tracks, etc.? Headsail measurement form - pdfMainsail measurement form - pdf Headsail measurement form - xlsm Mainsail measurement form -xlxm ? Judy Blumhorst Hyde Sails of Northern California www.judybsails.com?? judy@judybsails.com cell: 925.208.1692 fax: 925.820.2327 skype: judith.blumhorst www.HydeSails.com/NorthAmerica ? ________________________________ From: jerry montgomery <jerry@jerrymontgomery.org> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 7:59 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sail Measurements Confusion Actually, it goes down to the extended deck line, not the sheer.? You pretty much need a sailplan drawing to do it accurately, because you need to project the deck line aft, on the centerline, ignoring the house, to the point where the extended front edge of the mast would intersect with it. You use the same imaginary point for calculating the J. When you measured the mast, you didn't include the masthead, did you?? It should be 10' even; I just doublechecked the sailplan.? #176 would be one of the boats that I made, and I used to buy the masts directly from the extruder, 1000 lbs at a time, cut to length.? If it's longer than that, its got to be an aftermarket mast. I told someone incorrectly, a while back, that the mast was 19'6", but that was the M-12 I was thinking of.? Hope this helps. If you have decided on a sailmaker, I understand that he/she can get a sailplan off the internet.? If not, have them email me. jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey Johnston" <frjeff@gmail.com> To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 5:48 AM Subject: M_Boats: Sail Measurements Confusion I am attempting to measure my M15 to determine if it is "standard" sail measurements or not. I already have determined that it is a bit different than some specifications given for mast length: my mast length appears to be 19'2" (Hull 176 - 1981). My confusion lies in the "I" measurement. Some measuring guides tell me to measure from the jib halyard block down to the deck (the cabin top). Another says to measure down to the deck sheer line (as if there were no cabin). Not sure how one would get that number in an attempt to guesstimate where that sheer line would be on our 15's. Which of these is the correct "I" measurement for a sail loft when having sails made? Jeff PS - It appears that I may never run out of questions for this group. Thankful that this group is so patient and helpful. *Jeff+* Mol?n labe! ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ montgomery_boats mailing list montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! End of montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 109, Issue 26 *************************************************