Forgot to say...if anyone has any examples of fixing this issue... My larger reefing problem is that my mast has a big (4" or more) cutaway in the sail track for slugs to go in - probably because the original sail was boltrope not slugs. And there's no "gate" on it that I can close. So reefing is a PITA at the tack because lowering main means taking out slug stop above cutaway, some slugs come out, some need to go below stop, I've got to feed them back in one side or another, then put the stop back in. With tack lines I won't have to lower main quite as far so maybe one less slug to deal with. But really I need to fabricate a gate for that area so there's no need for the slug stop, the slugs stay in and just stack up as low as possible. That's the challenge with the tack lines - on a 2nd reef the tack cringle may be sitting on a big stack of slugs, can't come down towards the boom as far as one might like. cheers, John On 11/15/2018 10:18 AM, John Schinnerer wrote:
Some time back I posted an excellent article on clean simple reefing...can't find the link now but it speaks to all this with pictures etc.
I have tack hooks on my M17 boom - came that way... They were bolted through the second hole from front of boom (in the gooseneck tangs on the boom). Way too far back from the mast. I moved them up to the first hole, a bit better. If you look at even better tack hook setups they are actually mounted on the gooseneck hardware itself (the tack pin assembly itself, or something like that). So they are much closer to centerline.
If you use hooks, you want 'em as close to the centerline (mast track) as possible. On the boom is IMO not good enough. Because when you re-tension the main halyard, you're pulling up on the hook at least a little bit off-center of the boom. so you're twisting the boom sideways. Harder the pull, harder the twist. Stress on the gooseneck and/or limits gooseneck motion.
Tack line is pulling right down the middle, and right at foot of sail. And you don't have to lower main as far with tack line as with hooks. And you can even use the tack line as a downhaul to adjust luff tension (if luffing w/no pressure on sail).
I can't get my hooks where I'd want 'em so I will switch to tack lines for next season. The setup was in place but the clamcleats are worn out so just need to replace those.
As mine came, clew cleats were too far back on the boom, and the location of the cheek blocks was not right (placed for original sail, not moved for newer sail that came with the boat, is what it looks like). So I moved all that, and clamcleats instead of the old horn cleats.
cheers, John
On 11/15/2018 08:33 AM, Dave Scobie wrote:
IMO a reefing hook adds complication to small boats:
- lower main - hook tack (can be a challenge in high winds d with flapping sail) - raise main (which has now fallen off the wind and the sail is filling and hard to correctly set the luff)
The tack reef line is described in this post -
https://sagemarineblog.wordpress.com/2015/04/21/reefing/
Quicker and simpler as you lower main, tie off halyard, pull the tack & luff tight, reach aft along the boom and pull the clew tight and done.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com
On Thu, Nov 15, 2018, 8:23 AM Thomas Howe <Thomas@thomashoweonline.com wrote:
I have a reefing hook attached to the forward end of the boom. What does a tack line attach to?
Thomas Howe McGrew Real Estate 785-550-1169
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Dave Scobie Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2018 10:17 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: 15M v 17M
Thomas:
Here is the first in a.series I created a few years ago that discusses the process -
https://sagemarineblog.wordpress.com/2015/04/21/reefing
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com
On Thu, Nov 15, 2018, 7:54 AM Thomas Howe <Thomas@thomashoweonline.com wrote:
..."a Tack line at the mast and a clew line on the boom.." I'm interested in seeing pictures of this arrangement. My system may be overcomplicated.
Thomas Howe McGrew Real Estate 785-550-1169
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Dave Scobie Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2018 9:24 AM To: Peter Zimowsky <rapidz@mac.com>; For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: 15M v 17M
Of course, being out on a reservoir in gusts and pretty close to the boat ramp is not like being on the open water.
Be aware that the primary danger is NOT the wind it is THE SEAS. When the wave height approaches about 1/2 the boat's beam a breaking wave is increasing likely to roll the boat when striking a boat at the beam. As the wave height becomes greater than 1/2 the beam the boat will roll. This simplified rule works for all sailboats of any size.
Again this is a breaking wave not swells.
Know how to reef and make it simple and easy. Reefing a 15&17 Mboat, or Sage, should take 30 seconds. IMO on a.15/17 single line reefing are prone to jams and is slow and using a tack horn makes reefing more complicated. The system Jerry provided on the boats, a tack line at the mast and clew line on the boom is simple and works! Practice practice practice.
Be aware of the very poor sail shape roller reefing headsail creates at more than 30% sail reduction. Don't 'modify' a hankon headsail to work on a roller furler! The sails are cut differently to work correctly and a incorrectly cut furling headsail will become a worse 'bag' when reefed and make the boat heal more than when fully extended.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com
On Thu, Nov 15, 2018, 6:48 AM Peter Zimowsky via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com wrote:
I think going out in some strong winds for practice is a good idea. Of course, being out on a reservoir in gusts and pretty close to the boat ramp is not like being on the open water. Your story about the Monty taking the seas is much appreciated. I underestimate my M15. Thanks,
Pete Winter Sky (Zimowsky) M377 outdoors writer and photographer www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/>
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com