Tidying up my sails, finally doing some measuring... My "small" jib is not the 109% standard or working M17 jib, it's quite a bit smaller. Here's one calculator I found: http://sailingfortuitous.com/apps/jibcalc.html This and other similar formulas found online put it at about 81-82% (luff 189", leach 160", foot 76"). In between a working jib and a true (like 60-65%) storm jib. Also played with the outhaul method shown in that video I posted recently. Really a good idea AFAICT. Works as clew strap and outhaul both; automagically balances the angle of pull on the clew. And, makes it much easier to move that same outhaul line to a different reef grommet - no need to tie or untie any knots on flapping sail in bouncing boat. Just loose the outhaul, pull out of current grommet & block, route back through new grommet & block & make fast. With a boltrope or slug footed sail of course. This would be a Very Bad Idea on a loose-footed main...! cheers, John S. -- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com