On 9/29/2015 12:26 PM, John Schinnerer wrote: John, See Phil Bolger drawings (CarTopper for example) for Phil's method of making a swing up rudder. Then you can use your two pintles and have a swing up rudder too. Connie
Thanks for the resources on your blog site, I have bookmarked several relevant pages. The locker locking cords I had heard about, figured out something about like you describe but nice to have example and photos. My starboard locker is open to hull so need a cord on that side also.
My rudder has two pintles, two gudgeons on the transom, it's just a plain fixed rudder. So I'll have to figure out my own retraction or kick-up mechanism. It is mahogany, painted, I assume it's the original, or a hand-made replacement.
cheers, John S.
On 09/29/2015 09:45 AM, Howard Audsley wrote:
I have installed the gudgeons on three different rudders. Provided the rudder pin is straight (roll it on a flat surface to check for any wobble), and if the gudgeons will slide up and down the pin when not mounted, it can be made to work when mounted on a rudder. Trick is getting all three of them perfectly aligned. If not aligned, they will not want to slide. Get it right and it slides easy. I would suggest you keep working with what you have BEFORE you drill the holes out oversized. You almost certainly have a problem with alignment.
So how to get it right? Started to type out the instructions, then remembered I did a blog on this once before, that thankfully, Dave has preserved.
http://m17-375.webs.com/rudderandtiller.htm
A couple other things can also be found there regarding the older M17's. Seems to be a recurring theme with many of them, so something new owners of older boats may want to consider.
Howard
On Sep 24, 2015, at 10:08 AM, swwheatley@comcast.net wrote:
John:
One-piece rudder is not supposed to be fixed. The gudgeons (fittings attached to rudder) are supposed to slide up and down on the pintle rod (rod held in fittings attached to transom). To be frank, it is a kludgy set-up, but I am too cheap to buy a new rudder. After 2 years of fine tuning and a new pintle rod, I still cannot get mine to slide smoothly. Next step will be drilling the gudgeon holes a smidge larger. Hopefully that will do it.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Tosh" <billt@eastex.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2015 9:49:56 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Splashed Pajarita today!
John,,,, For your rudder fix, try JOWoodworks.com and talk to John Owens..... does excellent work and price is right, and while he does other stuff as handrails, hatch covers, etc etc, Rudders and daggers are his main forte.
Bill Tosh www.tcboats.com
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Conbert Benneck Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2015 8:19 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Splashed Pajarita today!
On 9/24/2015 1:35 AM, John Schinnerer wrote:
Congratulations John on your first sail with your new M17.
Half the fun of owning a boat is fixing things, or making improvement in its intended use.
Your description of what you found in your first sail, sound mostly minor, and a quick fix for someone with your know-how and capabilities.
"What a sweet boat" is a great description.
Have fun; go sailing; and don't forget to take your tool box along....!
Connie
Took my inaugural sail on Pajarita, my recently purchased '74 M17, today. My sailing pal Keith (Ranger 20 "Stoke" - yep, he's also a surfer) was along to help rig and test her out. What a sweet boat! Was at Lake of the Woods, in the highlands/mountains a bit east of Medford/Ashland area in southern Oregon. A mild and sunny late summer day with light to medium winds and an occasional fresh breeze, the latter pushing us up to near hull speed with the small jib and full main.
Some interesting discoveries and other comments:
Boat came with extra mainsheet type line and block rig for solo mast raising, and with mainsail and sheet/blocks already on boom with sail cover on. So I rigged it up as it was. Then I was wondering why in only a moderate breeze the main sheet took so much muscle to sheet in, didn't seem right compared to any other boat I've sailed. Took a closer look and noticed the block setup was only 3 turns. Took a second look at the alleged mast raising block/line and it is 4 turns, and less bulky to boot. I can only assume the former owner was sailing with the mast raising tackle, and had the mainsheet tackle in the mast raising gear bucket...!
The main and jib halyards are nice color coded line - green halyard for main/stbd, red for jib/port - but they're in the opposite sheaves they should be at masthead! Not tangled...just need to be pulled and swapped port/stbd (they are even color coded, ). Worked around it by just cleating the halyards on the "wrong" sides for now.
The boat sat with the CB line apparently wrapped quite tight around the CB winch for quite a while (boat was stored for ~1.5 years before I bought it). The line against the winch appears to have gotten compacted and smoothed and slips quite a bit while trying to raise the CB, even with 4 turns on the winch. This is exacerbated by use of a poorly placed and nearly too small jam cleat with too tight of fairlead to secure the CB line, and a rather flimsy plastic winch handle that is also too long to turn 360 deg. without hitting CB trunk, and a CB winch that doesn't seem to have the function of letting the handle ratchet back and forth as it turns the winch.
The flex in the transom at the (nice stainless, adjustable, spring-loaded) motor mount with the Tohatsu 6hp SailPro is not IMO sustainable. Just sitting still with the motor raised, even, if the boat bounces in a little chop. Flex, flex, flex.... Not to mention actually motoring! There is a backing plate inside the hull, but a poorly done one. The flex/stress on the transom due to motor weight is more a concern for me than trim issues due to the weight.
Also, at something less than half throttle I think we were pretty much at hull speed (with CB down no less). Cranking up the throttle led to stern settling and even more flex/stress on the mount/transom. So that motor seems like significant overkill for an M17. I could mount it direct in cutout but then there's the rudder/motor/prop interference issue. Just read a rave review of the motor as being more than adequate for a 3000 lb. boat sailing in the San Juans' current-laden waters.
The boat came with the mahogany one piece rudder, the original I assume. What a long blade! I couldn't even put the rudder on at the dock, too shallow, even though plenty of depth for the keel with CB up. Anyone know what the draft is on the one-piece rudder? Anyhow I need to do something about that long fixed rudder, and whatever I do has to cost way less than the $600+ Ruddercraft and the like. Anyone have plans/diagrams/photos for a DIY kick-up conversion?
All for now. Love the boat so far! She's in a short-term slip at the small marina and will see some more sailing Saturday, maybe Friday also, maybe even Sunday.
cheers, John S.