Brian: I think you left out the fact that the gear and boat (even full of water) displace some water. So, just as a 200 lb person doesn't need 200/62.4=3.2 cu ft of life jacket, less foam would be needed. It would be interesting to know what that displacement is. --Gary On Feb 27, 2008, at 7:47 AM, brian gilbert wrote:
Hi folks:
I have a '78 M17... no foam floatation. Because of the displacement (appx 1550 lbs, plus, maybe, 450 lbs for a battery, motor, my not-so- svelte self, and misc gear), it would require a large amount of foam.
How much? ( I'm doing this from memory, so I might not get it right, but... ) Water weighs about 64 lbs per cubic foot, so dividing 2000/64= 31 cubic feet of foam, BUT... that's the amount of foam needed to float her on the design waterline. If you filled the boat with foam, it'd probably come to a foot above the cabin sole.
You don't need that much foam to float a swamped boat, but I believe conventional practice is to use anywhere from 50-70% of that number. (One of my books says that reductions of 30-70 percent are possible.) So you'd still need 15 cu feet at minimum, and it would have to be distributed correctly... if you stuck it all under the V-berth, the boat might float, but it also might roll over with just the bow above water... not a good situation in a storm.
That's why most larger, heavier boats don't have built-in floatation... it usually requires too much interior space to be practical. I suppose it would be possible to do it on a 17, 'cause there's plenty of dead space in the after end and some under the V-berth, but it would take a lot of space. And getting the calculation wrong might mean the difference in just barely floating above water and sinking to the bottom VERY slowly.
Best BG
-- Brian Gilbert Author, Fix It And Sail, The Complete Trailer-Sailor Marine Media 3404 Hartford Dr Chattanooga, TN 37415 www.sailingsmall.com
From: montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com Reply-To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 00:25:06 +0000 To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 60, Issue 24
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Today's Topics:
1. Havasu Winter 2008 Event (Steve R.) 2. Re: wet lockers (William Larson) 3. Re: wet lockers (JDavies104@aol.com) 4. Re: wet lockers (Gary M Hyde) 5. Re: wet lockers (Gary M Hyde) 6. Interior of an M15 (W David Scobie) 7. Re: montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 60, Issue 23 (Ben Smith)
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Message: 1 Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 16:35:29 -0800 From: "Steve R." <stever707@mail.saabnet.com> Subject: M_Boats: Havasu Winter 2008 Event To: " For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Cc: Sean <Nebwest2@aol.com> Message-ID: <20080226163529.57C299AA@resin17.mta.everyone.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
We are back home and had a wonderful time on Lake Havasu. It was nice to meet the M-boaters, P-boaters and other boaters. I regret that some were not able to come and some could not get out on the water. You were missed. The weather was pleasant, although with little wind Saturday, and often times there were no other boats in sight. Sean and Jo were great hosts. Thanks for shuttling everyone around and organizing the event.
steve
Steve R. M-15 #119 Lexington, KY
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Message: 2 Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 16:37:47 -0800 (PST) From: William Larson <deuce3window@sbcglobal.net> Subject: Re: M_Boats: wet lockers To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Message-ID: <688485.75788.qm@web82908.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Dave: You're right on the M17 - no foam floatation. I have tried on occasion to bury the lee rail on a beam reach without success. Perhaps no need for the foam flotation in that it's stiffer than M15? Maybe some of our "seasoned" skippers can chime in on this one. Bill Larson M17 #632
W David Scobie <wdscobie@yahoo.com> wrote: ben:
the M15 has 'positive flotation' in the form of foam blocks installed at the factory. the two foam locations are: under the cockpit floor, in the bow (in a screwed shut locker).
the hull is solid fiberglass - not a floating sandwich like a 'whaler. so without the foam the M15 would sink. i have no idea what the 'lift potential' is for a swamped M15. thing is ... i've never read that an M15 has been swamped - neither by accident or by design.
i don't believe the M17 has positive flotation. i'll be corrected if wrong ;o)-
in a short bit i'm going to post some interior shots of my M15. this will show the foam locations. the link will be shared on this email list.
dave scobie M15 #288, not yet named
Ben Smith wrote:
So forgive me on the confusion but I don't yet own a Montgomery. Are these boats made with foam in them to give them buoyancy even if knocked down (like a Boston Whaler)? What is the extent of a Montgomery's reserve buoyancy, what is installed at the factory?
Thanks, Ben
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Message: 3 Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 19:44:04 EST From: JDavies104@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: wet lockers To: deuce3window@sbcglobal.net, montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Message-ID: <c8c.1c0690db.34f60c54@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
As a new M-17 single-handing sailor planning some Chesapeake Bay sailing this season, I'd also be interested in experiences of M-17 sailors in unexpected squalls, etc. Does a knock-down in an M-17 present a danger of swamping? Or (assuming the lockers are secure) does it reliably self-right? Any exciting sea-stories from the old hands?
Thanks
Rick M-17 #633 Lynne L
************** Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-du ffy/2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
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Message: 4 Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 19:35:33 -0800 From: Gary M Hyde <gmhyde1@mac.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: wet lockers To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Message-ID: <52269559-BC98-4B67-ABE8-A4CD6A886A6F@mac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
Dave: I think you are right. The M15 is required to have floatation, about 10 cubic feet if I remember what Jerry emailed me once. The M17 is in a larger class and isn't required to have it. --Gary On Feb 26, 2008, at 4:11 PM, W David Scobie wrote:
ben:
the M15 has 'positive flotation' in the form of foam blocks installed at the factory. the two foam locations are: under the cockpit floor, in the bow (in a screwed shut locker).
the hull is solid fiberglass - not a floating sandwich like a 'whaler. so without the foam the M15 would sink. i have no idea what the 'lift potential' is for a swamped M15. thing is ... i've never read that an M15 has been swamped - neither by accident or by design.
i don't believe the M17 has positive flotation. i'll be corrected if wrong ;o)-
in a short bit i'm going to post some interior shots of my M15. this will show the foam locations. the link will be shared on this email list.
dave scobie M15 #288, not yet named
Ben Smith <productiongreatscott@hotmail.com> wrote:
So forgive me on the confusion but I don't yet own a Montgomery. Are these boats made with foam in them to give them buoyancy even if knocked down (like a Boston Whaler)? What is the extent of a Montgomery's reserve buoyancy, what is installed at the factory?
Thanks, Ben
--------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
------------------------------
Message: 5 Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 19:40:40 -0800 From: Gary M Hyde <gmhyde1@mac.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: wet lockers To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Message-ID: <C314B6EB-F951-48FB-9694-85868E8D7744@mac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
The second time out in my M17 when new I couldn't release the main sheet in a jibe and shipped several gallons of water over the lee gunwale and all around my buddy Vince! But not went into the cabin even though the hatch boards were not in place. Vince had a change of clothes along, so all ended well. --Gary Hyde 2005 M17 sailboat #637 'Hydeaway 2' We can't change the wind, but we can trim our sails. Sailing is a bit like "African Queening" thru life.
On Feb 26, 2008, at 4:44 PM, JDavies104@aol.com wrote:
As a new M-17 single-handing sailor planning some Chesapeake Bay sailing this season, I'd also be interested in experiences of M-17 sailors in unexpected squalls, etc. Does a knock-down in an M-17 present a danger of swamping? Or (assuming the lockers are secure) does it reliably self-right? Any exciting sea-stories from the old hands?
Thanks
Rick M-17 #633 Lynne L
************** Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-du ffy/2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598
) _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
------------------------------
Message: 6 Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 22:15:35 -0800 (PST) From: W David Scobie <wdscobie@yahoo.com> Subject: M_Boats: Interior of an M15 To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Message-ID: <790616.14160.qm@web38613.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Monty Fans:
i've put together a short video slideshow that shows the interior spaces of an M15.
http://s57.photobucket.com/albums/g203/spankmeairlines/M15number288/?action =view¤t=6b150b28.pbr
individual slideshow images may be viewed through this link -
http://s57.photobucket.com/albums/g203/spankmeairlines/M15number288/
NOTE - password required to view album (not the video slideshow). the password is:
monty15fan
the album images are not in any order (photobucket wouldn't allow me to 'organize' within an album). if you watch the slideshow you can see the approx name of each picture. in the image album you can review details about each photo.
if anyone has a challenge let me know. i'll then work at getting a different format for sharing these photos.
dave scobie M15 #288 - not yet named
--------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
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Message: 7 Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 07:25:03 +0000 From: Ben Smith <productiongreatscott@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 60, Issue 23 To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Message-ID: <BAY123-W3016C561CC273DB64B2DE0D61A0@phx.gbl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Thanks Dave, Does anyone know if the 17s have "positive flotation" blocks installed? Thanks, Ben
ben:
the M15 has 'positive flotation' in the form of foam blocks installed at the factory. the two foam locations are: under the cockpit floor, in the bow (in a screwed shut locker).
the hull is solid fiberglass - not a floating sandwich like a 'whaler. so without the foam the M15 would sink. i have no idea what the 'lift potential' is for a swamped M15. thing is ... i've never read that an M15 has been swamped - neither by accident or by design.
i don't believe the M17 has positive flotation. i'll be corrected if wrong ;o)-
in a short bit i'm going to post some interior shots of my M15. this will show the foam locations. the link will be shared on this email list.
dave scobie M15 #288, not yet named
Ben Smith wrote:
So forgive me on the confusion but I don't yet own a Montgomery. Are these boats made with foam in them to give them buoyancy even if knocked down (like a Boston Whaler)? What is the extent of a Montgomery's reserve buoyancy, what is installed at the factory?
Thanks, Ben
--------------------------------- _________________________________________________________________ Climb to the top of the charts!?Play the word scramble challenge with star power. http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_jan
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