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Shroud tension
by Tom Jenkins 05 Mar '13

05 Mar '13

Hi gang, I am usually too busy under such conditions, but I noticed that the lower lee shrouds on my M17 show a little slack when I beat to weather at wind speeds over 25 knots. I am reluctant to start a tightening regime because the shrouds are just loose enough for me to raise and lower the mast without loosening and tightening the turnbuckles each cycle. Should I be concerned with the situation? Can one expect some permanent stretching of the shrouds with use? Will the presumed slight bowing of the mast to leeward be a problem? Thanks in advance for your comments. Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla

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Compass, knot, depth gauges, gps.
by Thomas Buzzi 02 Mar '13

02 Mar '13

Since it has been about 15 years since last buying a knot meter,depth gauge or gps, does anybody have any recommendations as to which brand is a good cross between quality and price or is it a matter of "1st class or no class"? Tom B.

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Kickup rudder
by Rick Davies 02 Mar '13

02 Mar '13

I'd like to poll the group on experience with the Unifoil hydraulic kickup rudder. I'm using an Idasailor kickup without the strut, and it's a bear to get back down after it partially retracts from hitting bottom, which is quite a problem when the wind's blowing. Does the Unifoil reset itself after hitting an obstacle? Or do you still have to haul it back down with the control line, like I do now? It's a big investment to make, and I'd like to be sure it's going to be an improvement over what I have now. Thanks for any information anyone can give, Rick M17 #633 Lynne L

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Re: M_Boats: Compass, knot, depth gauges, gps.
by Rick Davies 28 Feb '13

28 Feb '13

I've been using eSeaChart ($7.99) on my iPhone 4 and think it's great. Downloads NOAA charts for free and shows you exactly where you are, with course and speed. You can also put in waypoints, etc. My paper charts pretty much stay below. Rick Tom Jenkins <tjenk(a)gte.net> wrote: >Gary, >My iPhone and iPad have built-in GPS, as I assume is the case for your mini. What does the BadElf give you in addition? I have Navionics on both my machines, but the apparent lack of a compass is annoying. At least on my old Garmin, I can follow the compass to a series of waypoints. >Tom > >On Feb 28, 2013, at 7:44 AM, GARY M HYDE wrote: > >> I bought an iPad mini, a BadElf GPS plugin for it, and the Navionics app for the US and Canada. That gives me charts, knot meter, ease of use, and a lot more for less $ than a charting stand-alone GPS. The Navionics app works on my iPhone too at no added cost. >> >> ~~~_/)~~~ Gary >> Sent from my iPhone :-) >> >> On Feb 28, 2013, at 7:33 AM, stevetrapp <stevetrapp(a)q.com> wrote: >> >>> I agree, KISS, keep it simple, sailor. M-Boats work on the KISS principle, keep them that way. >>> Steve >>> M-15 # 335 >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Douglas Kelch" <doug1kelch(a)gmail.com> >>> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> >>> Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 7:24 AM >>> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Compass, knot, depth gauges, gps. >>> >>> >>>> I just use a hand held gps as double duty for a knot meter and gps. I do >>>> have a fixed mount compass and keep an old fashioned lead line for >>>> occasional use. >>>> >>>> I sail shallow draft boats, 2 ft 11 inch draft board/keel down and donot >>>> worry much about the depth while sailing. I use the lead line when >>>> checking out an anchorage if it is unfamiliar. >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> >>>> Doug >>>> >>>> On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 12:21 PM, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi(a)gmail.com>wrote: >>>> >>>>> Since it has been about 15 years since last buying a knot meter,depth gauge >>>>> or gps, does anybody have any recommendations as to which brand is a good >>>>> cross between quality and price or is it a matter of "1st class or no >>>>> class"? >>>>> Tom B. >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- >>>> No virus found in this message. >>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>> Version: 2013.0.2899 / Virus Database: 2641/6137 - Release Date: 02/27/13 >>>> >> > >

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Re: M_Boats: Kickup rudder
by Rick Davies 27 Feb '13

27 Feb '13

My kickup never had a strut. It's a pretty simple model. Since I sail solo a lot I'd like to not worry about having to wrestle the blade back down manually. It sounds as if the gas strut does the trick. Thanks for the input - always get a good response from you guys. Gary, I saw a picture of Hydeaway's rudder on the Idasailor site (I think that's where I saw it). Rick M17 #633 Lynne L GARY M HYDE <gmhyde1(a)mac.com> wrote: >I'd put the gas cylinder ( strut) back on the IdaSailor. Mine works great. > >~~~_/)~~~ Gary >Sent from my iPhone :-) > >On Feb 27, 2013, at 5:08 AM, Rick Davies <jdavies104(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> I'd like to poll the group on experience with the Unifoil hydraulic kickup >> rudder. I'm using an Idasailor kickup without the strut, and it's a bear >> to get back down after it partially retracts from hitting bottom, which is >> quite a problem when the wind's blowing. Does the Unifoil reset itself >> after hitting an obstacle? Or do you still have to haul it back down with >> the control line, like I do now? It's a big investment to make, and I'd >> like to be sure it's going to be an improvement over what I have now. >> >> Thanks for any information anyone can give, >> >> Rick >> M17 #633 >> Lynne L >

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Re: M_Boats: Shroud tension
by Larry E Yake 27 Feb '13

27 Feb '13

Tom, It's normal for your lee shrouds to have some slack. I get a little in both the upper and the lower. Not sure what wind speed it takes, but I'm sure it's less than 25 knots. Larry On Tue, 26 Feb 2013 15:26:41 -0800 Tom Jenkins <tjenk(a)gte.net> writes: > Hi gang, > I am usually too busy under such conditions, but I noticed that the > lower lee shrouds on my M17 show a little slack when I beat to > weather at wind speeds over 25 knots. I am reluctant to start a > tightening regime because the shrouds are just loose enough for me > to raise and lower the mast without loosening and tightening the > turnbuckles each cycle. Should I be concerned with the situation? > Can one expect some permanent stretching of the shrouds with use? > Will the presumed slight bowing of the mast to leeward be a > problem? > > Thanks in advance for your comments. > > Tom Jenkins > M17 Scintilla > >

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Re: M_Boats: Montgomery 17 steel ballast replacement.
by Nebwest2＠aol.com 26 Feb '13

26 Feb '13

Hey Thomas Sean here... Thanks to all that responded for me indicating I was a bit tied up last week.....LOL.....I WAS!!! Things are getting back to normal now. Just replaced some steel ballast in my M17 flushdeck Sneakers this fall.....and of course I did a total replacement on "Dauntless" my M23 quite a few years back. The job is a grunt and fairly expensive. Unless you can get scrap lead...figure $1/lb for reclaimed lead shot. I completely encapsulated the shot in resin the way I do it so even if there ever is another fracture in the keel, there is nowhere for water to go. Pouring the resin in from the top leads to large voids of loose shot and open space for water should there be a leak....or at least that's what I found in both instances that I have repaired. On top of the lead purchase price...there is the polyester resin to encapsulate the lead in....and I used epoxy resin, cloth, and biaxial tape to close up the windows I had to create in the side of the keel to get the old resin out. It is not a cheap repair. Like someone referred to...take the time to find out how the water got in and fix it....and I would propose leaving the empty keel cavity open long enough to allow the laminate to dry out so as not to have future problems with blisters. This could take some time depending on how wet she is and what the Relative Humidity is in your area. Ours is often single digit so that helped me a lot. My advice would be this. Both boats I have done this to are rare versions of Monty's. There were only 20 23's built and less than half of that number of M17 flushdecks. That made them worthwhile to me to go through this process. If either was not a rare boat ...or a boat I was not attached to....I don't know that the process would have been worth it. It is a lot of work to do it correctly and definitely a financial investment into the boat that you are not too likely to recoup in resale price. I am back online....but back to work also. Feel free to email me if there is anything I can help with and good luck! S

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Re: M_Boats: removing a hole in the hull and deck to joint
by griemmolo2 26 Feb '13

26 Feb '13

Connie When does old age overtake us? I am slated to pick up a M15 in the next 2 wks. &@ 80 with a bum knee I am having 2nd thougts. George Hitchhick on Marys tablet as laptop chrashed:-) Sent from Samsung tabletConbert Benneck <chbenneck(a)sbcglobal.net> wrote:On 26-Feb-13 12:42 PM, Robbin Roddewig wrote: Hi Robbin, I too married a derelict CP16 in haste in Clearwater, FL, and then repented at leisure. The rudder on the CP16 was just a flat piece of aluminum sheet material, about 3/8th of an inch thick, as I recall. When I recognized that the CP16 was a miserable sailor - it refused to even think of going to windward - I quickly recognized that I had bought a bathtub toy, not a sail boat; dumped the CP16 as quickly as I could, and looked around for a better solution. What I found was the M15, and after lots of chit-chat with the M-Listers, who answered all my questions in great detail, and with lots of enthusiasm, I bought my M15, #400 sight-unseen, in Panama City, FL. After picking it up and towing it back to Connecticut,my first detailed inspection at home delighted me with what I had bought, and it only got better and better the longer we owned it. For just the Admirable and myself, the M15 was ideal, and we did a lot of trailering; sailing; and exploring in it. Jerry designed and built a masterpiece. I only wish we were still able to sail our "LEPPO" , but old age finally forced us to give up our wonderful sport of sailing. Ciao, Connie ex M15 #400 LEPPO > Hi Tom, > my only experience was the Compac 16 that had a rather poor rudder. > Just a piece of sheet metal from what I remember of the stock rudder. > The boat had such issues pointing that I was desperate to improve it > any way I could. For the CP-16 the improvement was very noticable. > For the M boats I think the rudder shape is very good so all I would > be looking for from Ida would be the kick up function without doing > surgery to my Mahogany rudder. > > Robbin > > On 2/26/2013 10:12 AM, Thomas Buzzi wrote: >> Hi Robbin >> I too am thinking "Isa rudder". Have also read the hype about them, >> etc. >> In your experience do they improve the handling/speed at all much less >> turning a sailboat into something you can water ski behind? I think they >> quote M-17 rudders at something around $650. >> Regards, >> Tom >> >> On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 8:09 AM, Robbin Roddewig < >> robbin.roddewig(a)verizon.net> wrote: >> >>> Hi Tom, >>> my pleasure posting the pictures. The M-10 is very very similar to the >>> Fatty Knees so you might find some info there since they are still in >>> production, but the M-10 has a dagger board that you lift in and out >>> of the >>> dagger board slot in the hull. I would estimate that with the >>> dagger board >>> up the M-10 draws well less than a foot, probably six inches. It has no >>> keel to speak of, only a formed keel at the back of the hull to help it >>> track while rowing etc. >>> The rudder arrangement on the M-23 like most of the M-17's is that the >>> rudder slides up and down a fixed rod. I bought the material for >>> the rod >>> from McMaster Carr. You can google them but they sell bolts, metal >>> products as well as other machine items. They are not a marine supply >>> outfit in any way. >>> I too have a kick up rudder on my long list, probably from Ida >>> Sailor as I >>> had good luck with them on my CP-16 rudder replacement long ago. The >>> Chesapeake has lots of thin water and given the right circumstance I >>> can >>> see the transom being damaged from grounding the rudder while it is >>> full >>> down. >>> >>> Robbin >>> >>> On 2/26/2013 8:58 AM, Thomas Buzzi wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Robbin, >>>> Great pictures, thanks. That M-10 is a sweet looking craft. Does it >>>> have >>>> any type of keel arrangement? How much does it draw? There is a lot of >>>> protected water around Corpus Christi that is rather shallow and >>>> this boat >>>> looks like it would be fun to use to explore the area. >>>> Noticed you bought that rudder rod from Mc Master Carr. Is that a >>>> business >>>> name? My M-17 does not have the rudder rod arrangement and it was >>>> certainly >>>> a good idea when I used it on my first Montgomery. I am considering a >>>> kickup rudder commercially made since my 17 came with a replacement >>>> rudder >>>> without any holes at all in it. The thin water here abouts covers >>>> oyster >>>> shell beds which are as hard as rock and I do not want to tear off a >>>> rudder >>>> on one of them. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Tom >>>> >>>> On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 6:48 PM, Robbin Roddewig < >>>> robbin.roddewig(a)verizon.net> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Thomas, >>>>> I am not sure what material the through hull is but to me the >>>>> valve looks >>>>> like a gate valve. >>>>> I do have some shots of the M-10 although I am not sure how to >>>>> post them >>>>> to this site. I will upload them to the M-23 site at >>>>> https://picasaweb.google.com/****110938325409185510143/M23<https://picasaweb.google.com/**110938325409185510143/M23> >>>>> >>>>> <htt**ps://picasaweb.google.com/**110938325409185510143/M23<https://picasaweb.google.com/110938325409185510143/M23> >>>>> >>>>> Thanks >>>>> Robbin >>>>> >>>>> On 2/25/2013 6:49 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Robbin, >>>>>> If the valve is delrin or bronze I would leave it where it is >>>>>> against >>>>>> the >>>>>> day when you may sell the craft. Just be sure the ball valve is >>>>>> wired >>>>>> shut. >>>>>> I have always heard that 5200 is the way to go. >>>>>> I have been looking for a picture of an M-10. If you have one, >>>>>> would you >>>>>> post it here? >>>>>> Well the first 900 miles I put on my new (old) M-17 were road >>>>>> miles but >>>>>> it >>>>>> is finally in my yard. >>>>>> >>>>>> Good luck on your repairs, >>>>>> Tom Buzzi >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 4:06 PM, Robbin Roddewig < >>>>>> robbin.roddewig(a)verizon.net> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi M-boaters, >>>>>> >>>>>>> I attended a great seminar that other day about proper through >>>>>>> hulls >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> convinced me I should remove the through hull on my M-23 that is >>>>>>> connected >>>>>>> to the holding tank. I never plan on using this as I have a porta >>>>>>> potti, >>>>>>> dont now if the attached valve is approved and am not planning on >>>>>>> reconstituting the head system so this is just a hole in the >>>>>>> hull for >>>>>>> water >>>>>>> to come in if it breaks. Any advice on how to remove the current >>>>>>> plastic >>>>>>> (or delrin or whatever it is) through hull and then patch the >>>>>>> hole? I >>>>>>> am >>>>>>> not sure what the thickness of the hull is on the lower portion, >>>>>>> cored >>>>>>> or >>>>>>> what not. >>>>>>> I also need to work on the hull to deck joint in March and April as >>>>>>> things >>>>>>> warm up in Virginia. If anyone has a good reference or hints on >>>>>>> this >>>>>>> repair I would appreciate any info that you can pass along. I >>>>>>> have had >>>>>>> Jerry's recommendation to use 3M 5200 which is also what Don Casey >>>>>>> recommends but I like to get all the information I can before >>>>>>> starting >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> big project. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks in advance! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Robbin >>>>>>> M-23 and M-10 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > > >

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Re: M_Boats: Penetrol
by Larry E Yake 26 Feb '13

26 Feb '13

Jeff, I used penetrol on my M17 for a while several years ago. Still use it on the aluminum toe-rail and it does a good job of restoring the looks of that. I got away from it on the fiberglass after I wasn't satisfied with the results. Went with Poly Glow instead and have been very happy with that. Yes, you can fine sand the gel coat. I had to do that on CornDog to get her hull to an even consistent color. Everything else I tried left her blotchy. The gel coat was just faded too deep for the polishing compounds to do it. I started very carefully with 400 grit, making sure to not go too deep, then moved to 600 grit, and finally 1300 grit which gave it a nice consistent satin look. The Poly Glow then gave it the glossy shine. Penetrol may have worked fine after the sanding, but I didn't want to try it again since the previous treatments I'd done with it made the sanding such a nasty chore, clogging up the sandpaper pretty quickly. Larry On Mon, 25 Feb 2013 18:38:12 -0800 (PST) Jeff <northwave20(a)yahoo.com> writes: > > I seem to remember reading an article about using penetrol on older > chalky gelcoat. Is it possible to clean and/or fine sand the gel > coat and apply penetrol to come up with a decent looking finish? > > Jeff > >

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Penetrol
by Jeff 25 Feb '13

25 Feb '13

I seem to remember reading an article about using penetrol on older chalky gelcoat. Is it possible to clean and/or fine sand the gel coat and apply penetrol to come up with a decent looking finish? Jeff

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