July 2019 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

Bow pulpit. My boat did not come with a bow pulpit. Is there any resource for getting one made or used.
by Doug 14 Aug '22

14 Aug '22

New member here from Bend, OR. just bought a Montgomery 15. ⁣Sent from BlueMail

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Any pics of cunningham/downhaul setup on M17?
by John Schinnerer 30 Jul '19

30 Jul '19

Hi all, Just curious what anyone has for a cunningham/downhaul setup on their M17. Pics if ya got 'em. Looked through pics I have saved from list, but nothing much shows that part of rig. Now that I have the mast gate I can use tack reefing lines easily. I had just been using one of those cleats for a downhaul line tied to eye on gooseneck. I see that in another pic someone posted long ago. But now I need a separate setup. Thinking of just putting another v-cleat further down the mast...nothing fancy, no racing setups with multiple blocks etc. Ideas welcome... thanks, John -- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john(a)eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com

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M-15 balance
by Rusty Knorr 25 Jul '19

25 Jul '19

I’m wondering about the rudder balance on my M-15. Under power when I let go of the tiller the boat immediately falls off with the helm going hard over and the boat spinning in circles. It makes singlehanding very difficult when you can’t let go of the tiller for even one second to raise or drop sail or grab something out of the cabin. I have a line for securing the tiller, but even centered the boat doesn’t want to hold a course and is always trying to fall off one direction or the other. Factory kickup rudder. Any thoughts or observations from M-15 owners? (And I have to say this every time...No 17’s please! They are completely different boats!) Rusty on Vanilla www.rustyknorr.weebly.com

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Re: M_Boats: montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 197, Issue 16
by Judy Laing 24 Jul '19

24 Jul '19

Re the mainsheet for not-so-strong people, I found that I needed a 5 to 1 setup to be able to sheet the main in on the windiest days. But I am an older woman who often single-handed my M-17. Judy On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 11:01 AM < montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com> wrote: > Send montgomery_boats mailing list submissions to > montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > montgomery_boats-owner(a)mailman.xmission.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of montgomery_boats digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. traveler and main sheet (Gerry Lempicki) > 2. Re: traveler and main sheet (John Schinnerer) > 3. Re: traveler and main sheet (John Schinnerer) > 4. Re: traveler and main sheet (John Schinnerer) > 5. Re: traveler and main sheet (Gerry Lempicki) > 6. Re: traveler and main sheet (John Schinnerer) > 7. Re: traveler and main sheet (John Schinnerer) > 8. Re: traveler and main sheet (Gerry Lempicki) > 9. Re: traveler and main sheet (Henry Rodriguez) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 00:38:29 +0000 (UTC) > From: Gerry Lempicki <ka1stz(a)yahoo.com> > To: For and About Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: M_Boats: traveler and main sheet > Message-ID: <1101264595.3123610.1563842309984(a)mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > OK, as I learn more I see the benefit of improving the traveler to a ball > bearing unit that is easily adjustable.? Mine must be original as it has > detents to pin it in place, and doesn't adjust or slide easily.? I've read > Jerry's post about the ball bearing traveler, and I want to make sure I > understand before I buy parts or drill holes.? It sounds like one end of > the control line anchors to a strap eye mounted on a side of the cockpit, > goes around a sheave on the car, back through a Harken H 83 block (what is > this?? I can't find anything with this H 83 designation.? Some sort of > vertical mounted block?), to the v-cleat mounted above, then leave some > slack control line, and head to the other side by a v-cleat, through Harken > block, around sheave on car and back to a strap eye.? Is that correct?? Any > corrections to this or details on the block would be appreciated.? I > checked the photosite, but didn't see anything showing this. > Regarding the mainsheet, we're finding that in winds above 15mph or so, my > wife can't easily release or pull in the mainsheet.? She not wimpy either, > although she does have some titanium plate and screws in a forearm that > causes some discomfort at those loads.? And I admit it's got some good > force on it.? In the past I've read about people increasing the mechanical > advantage, but I couldn't find anything specific when recently searching.? > Are you changing all blocks to some other configuration?? A split system?? > Any thoughts here would be appreciated too.? I want to set this up so Robin > can operate helm or headsail/jib comfortably.Thanks!? (again) LOLGerry > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 18:12:46 -0700 > From: John Schinnerer <john(a)eco-living.net> > To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > Subject: Re: M_Boats: traveler and main sheet > Message-ID: <c0b9a87d-008f-1022-349a-7a279a473264(a)eco-living.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > > Re this part: > > On 7/22/19 5:38 PM, Gerry Lempicki via montgomery_boats wrote: > ... > > Regarding the mainsheet, we're finding that in winds above 15mph or so, > my wife can't easily release or pull in the mainsheet.? She not wimpy > either, although she does have some titanium plate and screws in a forearm > that causes some discomfort at those loads.? And I admit it's got some good > force on it.? In the past I've read about people increasing the mechanical > advantage, but I couldn't find anything specific when recently searching.? > Are you changing all blocks to some other configuration?? A split system?? > Any thoughts here would be appreciated too.... > > My M17 came with a mainsheet having only three turns (3:1, or a "three > part" as some jargon goes). Same as yours I believe, from the pics you > posted. > > It was like yours not enough mechanical advantage for a decently stiff > wind, with mid-boom sheeting on the early M17s (the lever you are > pulling on is shorter with mid-boom sheeting - a 3:1 at end of boom > would probably be plenty as the lever is about twice as long). > > I changed it to a 4:1, or "four part" - requires a new block at both > traveler and boom. > > Luckily for me, the extra tackle that came with my M17 included an > additional block for the traveler end that would provide 4:1. I only > needed to buy a new boom block. > > The boom end is way cheaper...I got a decent Barton 2-sheave block for > about $28. The traveler end, for a quality block with cam cleat and > adjustable cleat angle, is hundreds of dollars I imagine. > > Description...I may have some pics, will take a look... > > OLD > Sheet is fast to becket (a becket is an attachment point for a line on a > block) on boom block. Goes down around first sheave on traveler block (1 > of 3), up around boom block (2 of 3), down around second sheave on > traveler block (3 of 3) and through cam cleat. > > NEW > Sheet is fast to becket on traveler block. Goes up around first sheave > on boom block (1 of 4), down around first sheave on traveler block (2 of > 4), up around second sheave on boom block (3 of 4), down around second > sheave on traveler block (4 of 4) and through cam cleat. > > This is a lot better, is my personal experience! Still a strong pull in > stiff winds, but much better than the 3:1. > > Depending on where your boom bail is now, you may be able to move it aft > a bit also. Not a lot or sheet will get in the way of bodies in cockpit. > But mine came attached more forward than necessary, looked like it had > been moved at least one time a bit more forward (no idea why). I moved > it back to a few inches aft of what I'm guessing was the original location. > Point being, every little bit aft gives you a longer lever that the > sheet is pulling on, reducing the force on sheet by some amount. > > cheers, > John > > > -- > John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design > -------------------------------------------- > - Eco-Living - > Whole Systems Design Services > People - Place - Learning - Integration > john(a)eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 > http://eco-living.net > http://sociocracyconsulting.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 18:57:44 -0700 > From: John Schinnerer <john(a)eco-living.net> > To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > Subject: Re: M_Boats: traveler and main sheet > Message-ID: <b2e876f2-99d1-7776-8824-3f285738bc89(a)eco-living.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed" > > Here's a pic of my current setup, 4-part a.k.a 4:1, main sheet. > If you view full size you ought to be able to see the detail of the > traveler block with becket, and 2-sheave boom block. > > In my prior setup, the becket was on the boom block and boom block had > only one sheave. Presumably how yours is now. > > It's nearly side-on so you can see the approximate boom bail placement > as well. Sheet has a very slight rearward angle. Bail is a bit aft > (maybe 6", I'd have to go measure) of where it was when I got the boat > (but there were holes back in that vicinity so I guessed it had been > moved forward for some reason). > > cheers, > John > > On 7/22/19 6:12 PM, John Schinnerer wrote: > > Re this part: > > > > On 7/22/19 5:38 PM, Gerry Lempicki via montgomery_boats wrote: > > ... > >> Regarding the mainsheet, we're finding that in winds above 15mph or > >> so, my wife can't easily release or pull in the mainsheet.? She not > >> wimpy either, although she does have some titanium plate and screws in > >> a forearm that causes some discomfort at those loads.? And I admit > >> it's got some good force on it.? In the past I've read about people > >> increasing the mechanical advantage, but I couldn't find anything > >> specific when recently searching.? Are you changing all blocks to some > >> other configuration?? A split system?? Any thoughts here would be > >> appreciated too.... > > > > My M17 came with a mainsheet having only three turns (3:1, or a "three > > part" as some jargon goes). Same as yours I believe, from the pics you > > posted. > > > > It was like yours not enough mechanical advantage for a decently stiff > > wind, with mid-boom sheeting on the early M17s (the lever you are > > pulling on is shorter with mid-boom sheeting - a 3:1 at end of boom > > would probably be plenty as the lever is about twice as long). > > > > I changed it to a 4:1, or "four part" - requires a new block at both > > traveler and boom. > > > > Luckily for me, the extra tackle that came with my M17 included an > > additional block for the traveler end that would provide 4:1. I only > > needed to buy a new boom block. > > > > The boom end is way cheaper...I got a decent Barton 2-sheave block for > > about $28. The traveler end, for a quality block with cam cleat and > > adjustable cleat angle, is hundreds of dollars I imagine. > > > > Description...I may have some pics, will take a look... > > > > OLD > > Sheet is fast to becket (a becket is an attachment point for a line on a > > block) on boom block. Goes down around first sheave on traveler block (1 > > of 3), up around boom block (2 of 3), down around second sheave on > > traveler block (3 of 3) and through cam cleat. > > > > NEW > > Sheet is fast to becket on traveler block. Goes up around first sheave > > on boom block (1 of 4), down around first sheave on traveler block (2 of > > 4), up around second sheave on boom block (3 of 4), down around second > > sheave on traveler block (4 of 4) and through cam cleat. > > > > This is a lot better, is my personal experience! Still a strong pull in > > stiff winds, but much better than the 3:1. > > > > Depending on where your boom bail is now, you may be able to move it aft > > a bit also. Not a lot or sheet will get in the way of bodies in cockpit. > > But mine came attached more forward than necessary, looked like it had > > been moved at least one time a bit more forward (no idea why). I moved > > it back to a few inches aft of what I'm guessing was the original > location. > > Point being, every little bit aft gives you a longer lever that the > > sheet is pulling on, reducing the force on sheet by some amount. > > > > cheers, > > John > > > > > > -- > John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design > -------------------------------------------- > - Eco-Living - > Whole Systems Design Services > People - Place - Learning - Integration > john(a)eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 > http://eco-living.net > http://sociocracyconsulting.com >

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traveler and main sheet
by Gerry Lempicki 23 Jul '19

23 Jul '19

OK, as I learn more I see the benefit of improving the traveler to a ball bearing unit that is easily adjustable. Mine must be original as it has detents to pin it in place, and doesn't adjust or slide easily. I've read Jerry's post about the ball bearing traveler, and I want to make sure I understand before I buy parts or drill holes. It sounds like one end of the control line anchors to a strap eye mounted on a side of the cockpit, goes around a sheave on the car, back through a Harken H 83 block (what is this? I can't find anything with this H 83 designation. Some sort of vertical mounted block?), to the v-cleat mounted above, then leave some slack control line, and head to the other side by a v-cleat, through Harken block, around sheave on car and back to a strap eye. Is that correct? Any corrections to this or details on the block would be appreciated. I checked the photosite, but didn't see anything showing this. Regarding the mainsheet, we're finding that in winds above 15mph or so, my wife can't easily release or pull in the mainsheet. She not wimpy either, although she does have some titanium plate and screws in a forearm that causes some discomfort at those loads. And I admit it's got some good force on it. In the past I've read about people increasing the mechanical advantage, but I couldn't find anything specific when recently searching. Are you changing all blocks to some other configuration? A split system? Any thoughts here would be appreciated too. I want to set this up so Robin can operate helm or headsail/jib comfortably.Thanks! (again) LOLGerry

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M17 boom profile?
by Gerry Lempicki 22 Jul '19

22 Jul '19

Hi everyone, Well we have been having a blast on our resurrected M17, sailing 42+ hours in the last 2.5 weeks. We've had great conditions and fantastic help. One thing we noticed was that we have a tight "pleat" or vertical line forming in the mainsail above the block attachment point for the main sheet. I don't imagine this is very efficient. Tonight we took the boom off and brought it home. I put a 7' straightedge/level against it, and found there was a 3/8" gap between the boom and the straightedge over the attachment point, so the boom has been stressed and bent. Does anyone know who made this profile and if it is currently available? It measures roughly 2-1/8" x 2-3/4" (not exact), and I don't see anything similar on Dwyer's site. For now I clamped it to my welding bench and was able to carefully persuade it to straighten out. I don't see any cracks, etc, but if it bends again I'll want to replace it. If I change the profile, I assume I'll need a new gooseneck and other hardware.Also, if you have blocks to redirect clew reefing lines on your boom, what size/model do you have? I'm wondering if these are strong enough for this purpose. https://www.defender.com/product.jsp?name=harken-22-mm-micro-block-cheek-bl… kind of loads are on blocks for reefing lines? The above are rated to 200lbs. Thanks!-Gerry

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Pocket Yacht Palooza
by Rusty Knorr 22 Jul '19

22 Jul '19

Hi Steve, It’s even worse than that...I’m sitting on the hook in gorgeous Mats Mats Bay after a beautiful sleigh ride downwind run on a single tack, and I’m the only Palooza boat here. Pretty f’ing lonely after sailing with 100+ friends on the S100! 😞😭 Rusty on Vanilla www.rustyknorr.weebly.com > On Jul 21, 2019, at 11:00 AM, montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com wrote: > > Pocket Yacht Palooza

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Re: M_Boats: Pocket Yacht Palooza
by thomaspbuzzi 21 Jul '19

21 Jul '19

Yes, I was there for that tale but the fellow dressed in kacki owned the Monty. He can answer your question. My Monty is still in Tex.Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device -------- Original message --------From: Steve Trapp <stevetrapp(a)Q.com> Date: 7/21/19 2:59 PM (GMT-08:00) To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Pocket Yacht Palooza Are you the guy I talked with about sliding my M-15 mast forward on the trailer to get under the 40 ft overall length of vehicle and trailer to get a lower fare on the ferry? If you're M-17 is in Texas, how did you get to the far PNW where we can look across the Juan de Fuca Straits to Canada?SteveM-15 # 335-----Original Message----- From: thomaspbuzziSent: Sunday, July 21, 2019 12:43 PMTo: For and about Montgomery SailboatsSubject: Re: M_Boats: Pocket Yacht PaloozaHi, Steve. Must have spoken with you yesterday. Had a great time talking to small boat sailors all day. Not to mention the amazing skill on display by those kind enough to haul their fine creations out for the public to enjoy. Wish I could keep my Monty 17 up here instead of in my driveway in Texas.Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device-------- Original message --------From: Steve Trapp <stevetrapp(a)Q.com> Date: 7/21/19 10:13 AM (GMT-08:00) To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Pocket Yacht Palooza Saw only one M-17 at Pocket Yacht Palooza. Usually there are more M-boats there.SteveM-15 # 335>> _______________________________________________> montgomery_boats mailing list> montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats>> Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!>>> ------------------------------>> End of montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 197, Issue 9> ************************************************>

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Re: M_Boats: Pocket Yacht Palooza
by thomaspbuzzi 21 Jul '19

21 Jul '19

Hi, Steve. Must have spoken with you yesterday. Had a great time talking to small boat sailors all day. Not to mention the amazing skill on display by those kind enough to haul their fine creations out for the public to enjoy. Wish I could keep my Monty 17 up here instead of in my driveway in Texas.Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device -------- Original message --------From: Steve Trapp <stevetrapp(a)Q.com> Date: 7/21/19 10:13 AM (GMT-08:00) To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Pocket Yacht Palooza Saw only one M-17 at Pocket Yacht Palooza. Usually there are more M-boats there.SteveM-15 # 335>> _______________________________________________> montgomery_boats mailing list> montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats>> Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!>>> ------------------------------>> End of montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 197, Issue 9> ************************************************>

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M15 Tiller
by James Horton 21 Jul '19

21 Jul '19

Although I am very pleased with #662, I am a little disappointed with her steering. My previous 2 boats were a CD Typhoon and a Quickstep 24 , both very easy to steer,1 finger. I noticed that replacement Tillers for the M15 are shown as 47" in length (Ruddercraft and Defender) while my stock tiller that came with boat is around 36". Question , would the additional leverage gained from the extra 11 inches (perhaps at the expense of less cockpit space) be worth the $ 119 and hassle to switch out ? Regards Jamie Horton On Wed, Jul 10, 2019, 15:01 , <montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com> wrote: > Send montgomery_boats mailing list submissions to > montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > montgomery_boats-owner(a)mailman.xmission.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of montgomery_boats digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Tow weight issues (John Schinnerer) > 2. Re: List Members (Dave Scobie) > 3. Re: montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 197, Issue 8 (Steve R.) > 4. Re: Tow weight issues (Gail Russell) > 5. Re: Tow weight issues (John Schinnerer) > 6. Towing issues (Rusty Knorr) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2019 13:13:12 -0700 > From: John Schinnerer <john(a)eco-living.net> > To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Tow weight issues > Message-ID: <48b22c45-8ccc-4006-3198-e275ac522349(a)eco-living.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > > Ditto most of this. > > I am due for a brake flush and will spec DOT 4 to replace the DOT 3 that > is most likely in there now. > > If you are at all on the edge of your vehicle's towing capacity, and > able to understand car talk (in general, not just the NPR show :-), the > part about online forums is very applicable. > For example my generation of subarus started in 2000, but the first year > had significantly weaker brakes than 2001 and later. In other words not > all vehicles of the same 'generation' in car maker terms are equal. I > found that out on forums...obviously Subaru is not going to crow about > it themselves. > > Re engine temps, you want to keep your engine oil temp at 210-220F or > below. > Most cars don't have oil temp gauges (not with numbers on then anyhow) > but if you have a new enough car as he says below you can get that info > via added technology. > Synthetic oils (if you are using them) may not break down as much above > 210-220F as standard oils or blends, but in any case if your oil is > above that, your whole engine is getting too hot even if the oil is not > losing its lubricity. > Coolant temp is not necessarily as good a measure as oil temp since > various cooling system issues can give a low or normal reading on > coolant temp when in fact you're overheating. > > Re hitches, for an M17 or an M15 towed by smaller vehicles, for those > smaller vehicles you will most likely find spec to be a Class II hitch. > These are rated 3500 lbs towing and 300 lbs tongue weight, 1000+ lbs > more than even a loaded M17 on trailer. They have a 1 1/4" receiver. > They attach to the vehicle frame, not just to body metal. For example > this is the one I put on my subie: > > https://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Hitch/Subaru/Outback+Wagon/2001/36284.html… > > If you have a bigger heftier vehicle then your normal spec will be a > Class III with higher weight limits, also bolts to frame, and a 2" > receiver. > > If you have an M15, which you can tow with a smaller car than an M17 for > sure, then your vehicle spec hitch might be a Class I, 2000 lbs max tow > weight and 200 lbs max tongue weight. That is plenty for an M15, and > properly made Class I hitches also attach to the vehicle frame not just > the body metal. > > In other words, go with a hitch that is spec for your vehicle. That > keeps you in a reasonable safety zone. Assuming you don't overload both > the hitch and the vehicle that is... :-O > > Any decent hitch from Class I up will attach to the vehicle frame, so as > he says below avoid anything that just attaches to body metal (including > "bumper hitches" on small trucks and similar). > > cheers, > John > > > On 7/7/19 1:43 PM, casioqv(a)usermail.com wrote: > > I wanted to mention a few things about towing safely with a light weight > tow vehicle: > > > > 1. Change the brake fluid annually or less with a high boiling point > fluid, especially if you have an unbraked trailer. As it absorbs water, the > boiling temperature lowers rapidly, and will cause you to lose braking > coming down a grade. I personally prefer to use ATE TYP200 which is a > racing fluid, and boils at 536F dry and 388F wet (e.g. after about 2 > years). If your car has several year old DOT 3 fluid, it could boil at > temps as low as 257F, and lose all braking ability when the brakes aren't > even very hot yet. Cars that take DOT 3 can use DOT 4 instead, which > usually has a higher boiling point. Good ceramic brake pads and new racing > grade fluid will drastically increase the braking capacity of any car or > truck. > > > > 2. Find the online car forum for owners of your car model, and read > everything they say about towing safely- weakness, modifications, etc. > Often some car models will need a few things like a different transmission > fluid, different rear springs, or different brake pads to overcome minor > design flaws and make towing safer. > > > > 3. Most cars nowadays have temperature sensors on everything, but they > don't report this data to the driver. With a bluetooth OBD-II dongle, and a > smartphone app like Torque, you can get an audible alarm long before the > transmission or engine overheat enough to cause permanent damage... whereas > once the dash lights come on it's usually too late. As a rule of thumb, an > engine should stay under boiling, e.g. 100C/212F when climbing a grade if > the cooling system is in good shape. > > > > 4. A Class III 2" receiver hitch is worth it even for a small car with a > light trailer. If you can't find one, you can get one fabricated by a > welder. The cheap draw-tite, reese, etc. Class I hitches that just mount to > sheet metal are unsafe, as those mount points will fatigue and fail if you > tow a lot, even with a light weight trailer. > > > > Sincerely, > > Tyler > > > > -- > John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design > -------------------------------------------- > - Eco-Living - > Whole Systems Design Services > People - Place - Learning - Integration > john(a)eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 > http://eco-living.net > http://sociocracyconsulting.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2019 13:25:24 -0700 > From: Dave Scobie <scoobscobie(a)gmail.com> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: List Members > Message-ID: > <CAGjBOA75YNijvyWhSE3Ftt51GJUCEPskEUmipBBYHEBYt= > 9Ghg(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > Find a prior email sent to the list by the person you wish to contact. > Choose reply ALL. Check new email's header that should now show both the > listproc address and that of the original poster. Delete the listproc > email address. > > Or - > > Reply to the original email posted by the person you wish to contact. > Their original post will have a lead header showing their email address > (ex: 'On Tue, Jul 9, 2019, 10:11 AM George Iemmolo <griemmolo2(a)gmail.com> > wrote:'). Copy their email and paste in the send-to field. Delete the > listproc address from the send-to field. > > > :: Dave Scobie > :: M6'8" #650 > :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com > :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com > :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/ > > > On Tue, Jul 9, 2019, 10:11 AM George Iemmolo <griemmolo2(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > How does one contact a list member off list? I whish to contact Connie > > Benneck regarding his books and as much of the discussion is not > Montgomery > > oriented I do not wish to violate the list rules and post here. > > > > Thanks > > George > > Merry Helen II > > 96 M15 602 > > "We Can Not Control the Wind > > But We Can Adjust Our Sails" > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2019 16:34:41 -0400 > From: "Steve R." <stever707(a)gmail.com> > To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > Subject: Re: M_Boats: montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 197, Issue 8 > Message-ID: > <CA+qyhvUXjbyE16dF9x_nbveyaD7L+txeKC4_4U= > POsOViGCOiA(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > George, > > Look for the link near the top of every email "To subscribe or unsubscribe > via the World Wide Web, visit" . > > Follow the link. > > At the bottom of the page you will see an additional option: > > *montgomery_boats Subscribers* > (*The subscribers list is only available to the list members.*) > > Enter your address and password to visit the subscribers list: > > ================================================= > > Follow these instructions and you will see everyone who publicly accepts > emails. > > If you forgot your password you may request that a new password is emailed > to you. > steve > > Steve R. > M-15 #119 > Lexington KY now - Green Cove Spring FL sometime soon > > > <sniped> > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2019 12:10:39 -0500 > > From: George Iemmolo <griemmolo2(a)gmail.com> > > > > How does one contact a list member off list? I whish to contact Connie > > Benneck regarding his books and as much of the discussion is not > Montgomery > > oriented I do not wish to violate the list rules and post here. > > > > Thanks > > George > > Merry Helen II > > 96 M15 602 > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2019 13:54:02 -0700 > From: Gail Russell <gail(a)zeliga.com> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Tow weight issues > Message-ID: > < > CAKCiK2JHEF+65vDzHtvcbKhFf0494W4kD4K-MLCUqw7jx9yOfQ(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > I am a total know-nothing on this subject, but from my acquaintances in the > horse trailer towing world, I have been told that the wheel base length of > the tow vehicle versus the weight of the tow vehicle is important. I > presume this is relevant in a potential jack knifing situation, and is the > problem when I am following a rig where the trailed vehicle is swinging > from side to side. > > Gail in Forestville CA > > On Tue, Jul 9, 2019 at 1:13 PM John Schinnerer <john(a)eco-living.net> > wrote: > > > Ditto most of this. > > > > I am due for a brake flush and will spec DOT 4 to replace the DOT 3 that > > is most likely in there now. > > > > If you are at all on the edge of your vehicle's towing capacity, and > > able to understand car talk (in general, not just the NPR show :-), the > > part about online forums is very applicable. > > For example my generation of subarus started in 2000, but the first year > > had significantly weaker brakes than 2001 and later. In other words not > > all vehicles of the same 'generation' in car maker terms are equal. I > > found that out on forums...obviously Subaru is not going to crow about > > it themselves. > > > > Re engine temps, you want to keep your engine oil temp at 210-220F or > > below. > > Most cars don't have oil temp gauges (not with numbers on then anyhow) > > but if you have a new enough car as he says below you can get that info > > via added technology. > > Synthetic oils (if you are using them) may not break down as much above > > 210-220F as standard oils or blends, but in any case if your oil is > > above that, your whole engine is getting too hot even if the oil is not > > losing its lubricity. > > Coolant temp is not necessarily as good a measure as oil temp since > > various cooling system issues can give a low or normal reading on > > coolant temp when in fact you're overheating. > > > > Re hitches, for an M17 or an M15 towed by smaller vehicles, for those > > smaller vehicles you will most likely find spec to be a Class II hitch. > > These are rated 3500 lbs towing and 300 lbs tongue weight, 1000+ lbs > > more than even a loaded M17 on trailer. They have a 1 1/4" receiver. > > They attach to the vehicle frame, not just to body metal. For example > > this is the one I put on my subie: > > > > > https://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Hitch/Subaru/Outback+Wagon/2001/36284.html… > > > > If you have a bigger heftier vehicle then your normal spec will be a > > Class III with higher weight limits, also bolts to frame, and a 2" > > receiver. > > > > If you have an M15, which you can tow with a smaller car than an M17 for > > sure, then your vehicle spec hitch might be a Class I, 2000 lbs max tow > > weight and 200 lbs max tongue weight. That is plenty for an M15, and > > properly made Class I hitches also attach to the vehicle frame not just > > the body metal. > > > > In other words, go with a hitch that is spec for your vehicle. That > > keeps you in a reasonable safety zone. Assuming you don't overload both > > the hitch and the vehicle that is... :-O > > > > Any decent hitch from Class I up will attach to the vehicle frame, so as > > he says below avoid anything that just attaches to body metal (including > > "bumper hitches" on small trucks and similar). > > > > cheers, > > John > > > > > > On 7/7/19 1:43 PM, casioqv(a)usermail.com wrote: > > > I wanted to mention a few things about towing safely with a light > weight > > tow vehicle: > > > > > > 1. Change the brake fluid annually or less with a high boiling point > > fluid, especially if you have an unbraked trailer. As it absorbs water, > the > > boiling temperature lowers rapidly, and will cause you to lose braking > > coming down a grade. I personally prefer to use ATE TYP200 which is a > > racing fluid, and boils at 536F dry and 388F wet (e.g. after about 2 > > years). If your car has several year old DOT 3 fluid, it could boil at > > temps as low as 257F, and lose all braking ability when the brakes aren't > > even very hot yet. Cars that take DOT 3 can use DOT 4 instead, which > > usually has a higher boiling point. Good ceramic brake pads and new > racing > > grade fluid will drastically increase the braking capacity of any car or > > truck. > > > > > > 2. Find the online car forum for owners of your car model, and read > > everything they say about towing safely- weakness, modifications, etc. > > Often some car models will need a few things like a different > transmission > > fluid, different rear springs, or different brake pads to overcome minor > > design flaws and make towing safer. > > > > > > 3. Most cars nowadays have temperature sensors on everything, but they > > don't report this data to the driver. With a bluetooth OBD-II dongle, > and a > > smartphone app like Torque, you can get an audible alarm long before the > > transmission or engine overheat enough to cause permanent damage... > whereas > > once the dash lights come on it's usually too late. As a rule of thumb, > an > > engine should stay under boiling, e.g. 100C/212F when climbing a grade if > > the cooling system is in good shape. > > > > > > 4. A Class III 2" receiver hitch is worth it even for a small car with > a > > light trailer. If you can't find one, you can get one fabricated by a > > welder. The cheap draw-tite, reese, etc. Class I hitches that just mount > to > > sheet metal are unsafe, as those mount points will fatigue and fail if > you > > tow a lot, even with a light weight trailer. > > > > > > Sincerely, > > > Tyler > > > > > > > -- > > John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design > > -------------------------------------------- > > - Eco-Living - > > Whole Systems Design Services > > People - Place - Learning - Integration > > john(a)eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 > > http://eco-living.net > > http://sociocracyconsulting.com > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2019 15:21:36 -0700 > From: John Schinnerer <john(a)eco-living.net> > To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Tow weight issues > Message-ID: <42530406-20c8-ef1e-e80a-8bcd69d40552(a)eco-living.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > > It's relevant to situations where the tail starts wagging the dog, so to > speak - the trailer sways side to side and starts yanking the rear of > the tow vehicle around. Or pushing it around. > > Part of avoiding this is correct tongue weight vs. trailer weight, > usually tongue weight should be 10-15% of total trailer weight. > There's other factors like the one you mention. > Here's an article on it from GMC: > > https://www.gmc.com/gmc-life/trucks/why-tongue-weight-is-important-for-safe… > > But even a big heavy tow rig can get whiplashed by a poorly balanced > trailer. I once rented a big beefy tow-equipped Hertz full size x-cab > pickup to help my brother move his 22' Airstream (no suitable tow > vehicle in the family stable). Not that huge a trailer for such a truck. > But it turned out I couldn't go over about 52-53 MPH because the trailer > was poorly balanced. Tongue weight was probably too light or too heavy, > too light my guess. > Edge up towards 55 and it would start to sway side to side, doing its > best to take the rear of the truck with it...scary. > > Towing my M17 at the upper edge of my vehicle's ability, I definitely > checked my tongue weight to make sure it was in the 10-15% range. > > cheers, > John > > On 7/9/19 1:54 PM, Gail Russell wrote: > > I am a total know-nothing on this subject, but from my acquaintances in > the > > horse trailer towing world, I have been told that the wheel base length > of > > the tow vehicle versus the weight of the tow vehicle is important. I > > presume this is relevant in a potential jack knifing situation, and is > the > > problem when I am following a rig where the trailed vehicle is swinging > > from side to side. > > > > Gail in Forestville CA > > > > On Tue, Jul 9, 2019 at 1:13 PM John Schinnerer <john(a)eco-living.net> > wrote: > > > >> Ditto most of this. > >> > >> I am due for a brake flush and will spec DOT 4 to replace the DOT 3 that > >> is most likely in there now. > >> > >> If you are at all on the edge of your vehicle's towing capacity, and > >> able to understand car talk (in general, not just the NPR show :-), the > >> part about online forums is very applicable. > >> For example my generation of subarus started in 2000, but the first year > >> had significantly weaker brakes than 2001 and later. In other words not > >> all vehicles of the same 'generation' in car maker terms are equal. I > >> found that out on forums...obviously Subaru is not going to crow about > >> it themselves. > >> > >> Re engine temps, you want to keep your engine oil temp at 210-220F or > >> below. > >> Most cars don't have oil temp gauges (not with numbers on then anyhow) > >> but if you have a new enough car as he says below you can get that info > >> via added technology. > >> Synthetic oils (if you are using them) may not break down as much above > >> 210-220F as standard oils or blends, but in any case if your oil is > >> above that, your whole engine is getting too hot even if the oil is not > >> losing its lubricity. > >> Coolant temp is not necessarily as good a measure as oil temp since > >> various cooling system issues can give a low or normal reading on > >> coolant temp when in fact you're overheating. > >> > >> Re hitches, for an M17 or an M15 towed by smaller vehicles, for those > >> smaller vehicles you will most likely find spec to be a Class II hitch. > >> These are rated 3500 lbs towing and 300 lbs tongue weight, 1000+ lbs > >> more than even a loaded M17 on trailer. They have a 1 1/4" receiver. > >> They attach to the vehicle frame, not just to body metal. For example > >> this is the one I put on my subie: > >> > >> > https://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Hitch/Subaru/Outback+Wagon/2001/36284.html… > >> > >> If you have a bigger heftier vehicle then your normal spec will be a > >> Class III with higher weight limits, also bolts to frame, and a 2" > >> receiver. > >> > >> If you have an M15, which you can tow with a smaller car than an M17 for > >> sure, then your vehicle spec hitch might be a Class I, 2000 lbs max tow > >> weight and 200 lbs max tongue weight. That is plenty for an M15, and > >> properly made Class I hitches also attach to the vehicle frame not just > >> the body metal. > >> > >> In other words, go with a hitch that is spec for your vehicle. That > >> keeps you in a reasonable safety zone. Assuming you don't overload both > >> the hitch and the vehicle that is... :-O > >> > >> Any decent hitch from Class I up will attach to the vehicle frame, so as > >> he says below avoid anything that just attaches to body metal (including > >> "bumper hitches" on small trucks and similar). > >> > >> cheers, > >> John > >> > >> > >> On 7/7/19 1:43 PM, casioqv(a)usermail.com wrote: > >>> I wanted to mention a few things about towing safely with a light > weight > >> tow vehicle: > >>> > >>> 1. Change the brake fluid annually or less with a high boiling point > >> fluid, especially if you have an unbraked trailer. As it absorbs water, > the > >> boiling temperature lowers rapidly, and will cause you to lose braking > >> coming down a grade. I personally prefer to use ATE TYP200 which is a > >> racing fluid, and boils at 536F dry and 388F wet (e.g. after about 2 > >> years). If your car has several year old DOT 3 fluid, it could boil at > >> temps as low as 257F, and lose all braking ability when the brakes > aren't > >> even very hot yet. Cars that take DOT 3 can use DOT 4 instead, which > >> usually has a higher boiling point. Good ceramic brake pads and new > racing > >> grade fluid will drastically increase the braking capacity of any car or > >> truck. > >>> > >>> 2. Find the online car forum for owners of your car model, and read > >> everything they say about towing safely- weakness, modifications, etc. > >> Often some car models will need a few things like a different > transmission > >> fluid, different rear springs, or different brake pads to overcome minor > >> design flaws and make towing safer. > >>> > >>> 3. Most cars nowadays have temperature sensors on everything, but they > >> don't report this data to the driver. With a bluetooth OBD-II dongle, > and a > >> smartphone app like Torque, you can get an audible alarm long before the > >> transmission or engine overheat enough to cause permanent damage... > whereas > >> once the dash lights come on it's usually too late. As a rule of thumb, > an > >> engine should stay under boiling, e.g. 100C/212F when climbing a grade > if > >> the cooling system is in good shape. > >>> > >>> 4. A Class III 2" receiver hitch is worth it even for a small car with > a > >> light trailer. If you can't find one, you can get one fabricated by a > >> welder. The cheap draw-tite, reese, etc. Class I hitches that just > mount to > >> sheet metal are unsafe, as those mount points will fatigue and fail if > you > >> tow a lot, even with a light weight trailer. > >>> > >>> Sincerely, > >>> Tyler > >>> > >> > >> -- > >> John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design > >> -------------------------------------------- > >> - Eco-Living - > >> Whole Systems Design Services > >> People - Place - Learning - Integration > >> john(a)eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 > >> http://eco-living.net > >> http://sociocracyconsulting.com > >> > >> > > -- > John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design > -------------------------------------------- > - Eco-Living - > Whole Systems Design Services > People - Place - Learning - Integration > john(a)eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 > http://eco-living.net > http://sociocracyconsulting.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2019 10:02:19 -0700 > From: Rusty Knorr <rustyinafrica(a)yahoo.com> > To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > Subject: M_Boats: Towing issues > Message-ID: <4D7C1C9C-9FEC-4E4A-AF72-6BCB29532E55(a)yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > I just had my Subie oil changed and had them check my brake fluid, all was > perfect after towing a half dozen times or so this year. The dealer assured > me the transmission would have no issues so I?m feeling a little more at > ease towing my M-15 Vanilla wherever I want to go. > > Rusty > > www.rustyknorr.weebly.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > montgomery_boats mailing list > montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! > > > ------------------------------ > > End of montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 197, Issue 9 > ************************************************ >

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