March 2017 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

Loose foot or not?
by Paul McAleavy 15 Mar '17

15 Mar '17

I have been sailing my M15 with the main fitted in the boom groove but recently it has been suggested that flying it loose footed, with only tack and clew fastened, will improve performance. I have also been advised both for and against adding a boom vang. I appeal to this forum for an experienced opinion. Thanks, Paul, M15 #471 Callisto -- Paul McAleavy 608-576-9006 Contract Customizing

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Selling your boat
by Thomas Buzzi 15 Mar '17

15 Mar '17

Hi All, A dear friend who was refitting a 1974 Monty 17 passed away last year. His widow asked me to help sell the boat. I took out an ad in "Sailboats Texas". Within a week I had four interested parties and one of them just bought the boat today. Their service is very good. They seem to handle boats from all over the United States so apparently it works to use them even if you are far from Texas since buyers know to look there for used boats. The ads are free although they ask for at least a small donation when the boat sells of at least $25 up to 10% of the deal price although they will let it go, period if you cannot muster funds. Very reasonable and very good results. Fair winds, Tom B.

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Re: M_Boats: Loose foot or not?
by SALGLESSER＠aol.com 14 Mar '17

14 Mar '17

Hi Paul, we have converted our M15 to loose footed with success. We also converted our Moore 24 to loose footed as well with better performance. salngail In a message dated 3/14/2017 3:37:26 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, rpmscreenprint(a)sbcglobal.net writes: I have been sailing my M15 with the main fitted in the boom groove but recently it has been suggested that flying it loose footed, with only tack and clew fastened, will improve performance. I have also been advised both for and against adding a boom vang. I appeal to this forum for an experienced opinion. Thanks, Paul, M15 #471 Callisto -- Paul McAleavy 608-576-9006 Contract Customizing

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Oars for M15
by brad kurlancheek 11 Mar '17

11 Mar '17

Blair. Thanks for the links. Can't tell you how many times I'd read the info contained therein, before proceeding with the setup I have now. I believe I'd scoured the internet for months, looking for, and reading about, how and where to put oarlock sockets onto fibreglass boats, from 14' to 22'. Often I'd scrapped the whole oar idea and was going to resort to sculling as a better alternativel Which it might very well be, except there's the issue of where to put the scull. What was particularly motivating were the many passages in Michael Mann's book, A Little Breeze to the West, where he is caught in the middle of the Pacific, on his way to Hawaii, driftless, windless, and motionless, wishing, praying, and hoping, he had a pair of working oars with satisfactory oar sockets to put them in, so as to be able to make some/any progress, when in dead calm flat seas. I thought, for months and months, on how exactly to get this done, before drilling and cutting into the pristine fibreglass. Finally I decided to do what seemed to me the easiest way to get it done, with what I had on hand. I cut out two 3/8" x 3" x 2" plywood plates, then sanded them, epoxied them, and varnished them. On the outside of each plate would be attached thereto a bronze oar sidesocket . Holes were then drilled through the four holes of the sidesocket, through the wooden plate, into the exterior gunwale/coaming of the M15, from the outside of the gunwale/coaming, to where the extra long drill bit drilled through the corresponding side, into the cockpit. Yes, this was indeed the point of no return. In total, 4 holes were drilled into the interior/cockpit plywood plate, so as to receive the end of four 5" stainless steel screws, where a tightening bolt would be screwed on. The bolts were cut, so that as little as possible protrudes into the cockpit. Tape was then placed over the protruding ends, as an end bolt stuck into one's arm or side while sailing could really ruin one's day. This was done on each side - so what you get is a pair of oar sidesockets, placed on the outside of the M15 coaming, fastened plush thereto, anchored by a receiving plate and 4 bolts, on the interior side of the gunwale. As to the oars themselves, I bit the bullet and bought a pair of 10' composite oars from NRS. Each oar breaks down quickly into 2 pieces. To store the oars, I put each pair of each oar, into the area that's underneath the cockpit seats, the opening of which is accessible from within the cabin, facing the stern, one opening on each side of the inside face of the companionway. The end of each piece, which protrudes a few inches into the cabin, rests on some padding, so as not to chew up the interior finish, and to keep them from making noise. The oars are lightweight and snap together in less than a minute, tho they ain't cheap! My original set of bronze circular oarlocks, I found to my chagrin, are not going to cut it. Because of the angle of the exterior vertical plane of the M15 coaming, the paddle part of the oar cannot be lowered low enough, to make sufficient contact with the water. The top shank of the oar simply runs into unmoving bronze oarlock. One way to fix that is to obviously put some kind of cantilevered backing plate between the coaming and the exterior backing plate, but really, that would be a lot of work. I'd have to cut all new, longer bolts, in addition to other fun stuff. So, as an easier alternative, am going to try using Sea Dog's Heavy Duty Clamp-On Oarlocks. They rotate at an angle opposite the plane of the coaming. So who knows, it might work. I should know sometime this spring. Again, even if this rotatable oarlock allows for the oar paddle to be lowered far enough into the water, the angle might be so severe, that rowing might only be feasible while standing up. That's okay, I suppose. One of John Harris/CLC's latest designs has a rowing feature where the rower clearly can only row while standing. Another issue is the leverage - as in, too much oar from the coaming to the water, and not enough oar between the coaming and my hands. Will let you know how it works out. Cheers On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 2:00 PM, < montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com> wrote: > Send montgomery_boats mailing list submissions to > montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ > montgomery_boats > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > montgomery_boats-owner(a)mailman.xmission.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of montgomery_boats digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Oars for M15 (Blair Ashworth) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2017 13:57:32 -0800 > From: Blair Ashworth <blairashworth(a)gmail.com> > To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > Subject: M_Boats: Oars for M15 > Message-ID: > <CAO418sPDPoMuAtbXNH3y-V-ZV8agceXnyd9YBRc=D4MBK-N0pA@ > mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Brad, > Here is some great info on Oars for an M15. > Not sure if David Amundson is on this mail list, but his website > has some great info. > > http://leaguecity.dyndns.org:1953/trekka/Decksweepers.htm > > http://www.compassionfitness.com/trekka - Then click on his upgrades > link. > > He has technical link as well to figure out the proper length. He built his > 10 feet long. > Don't know how you'd store those on an M15, but perhaps you could find some > 2-piece oars like they use at Gig Harbor SCAMP. > > They use these: > *Oars, 9?4? 2-piece fiberglass shaft with bronze oarlocks ??. $ 329 pr.* > *Website is: http://www.ghboats.com/boats/boats-12-to-8-ft/12-scamp/ > <http://www.ghboats.com/boats/boats-12-to-8-ft/12-scamp/>* > > > *Anyway, if you find any good alternatives, pass them along. I would be > interested in installing oar locks and oars on my M15 as well.* > *Blair* > *M15 #126* > > Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2017 15:14:07 -0500 > From: brad kurlancheek <bkurlancheek(a)gmail.com> > To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > Subject: M_Boats: Trolling motor for auxiliary propulsion > Message-ID: > <CALpQOtDEYA+Mv=P8M6Eov+xr9LwPHNM9iPp_4T1Q4YC9R6dO6g@ > mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > I can surely see the need for power to out > maneuver bad currents/bad winds/bad seas. > A minnkota 30 probably won't measure up in such situation. > For calm waters, though, it'll get the job done. But after a few > hours, the battery's going to run out. > That said, last year I'd installed a pair of oarlocks > on the coamings, and made a portable wooden > bench, to fit across the seats, snug up close > to the companionway. This is on an M15. I > also took along a pair of 10' composite 2 part oars, which i'd > stored in the no man's land underneath the cockpit area. > Hauled the boat down to Raystown Lake, PA, in early > October for a 5-day cruise. On day 2, got the oars > in place, for a test run, and found that I couldn't angle the oars down > into the water far enough. So much for that idea. When I got > back I ordered a pair of rotatable oar locks. Hoping that solves the > problem. The only remaining question is whether there'll be sufficient > leverage to be able to apply to the oars, if the beam to oar length ratio > is too low. If I can get 2 knots in calm waters, that's plenty, and won't > have to panic when the minnkota battery runs out of juice. > > As to all the creature comforts issue while on a cruise, well, sure, > there's benefits, > obviously, to having them. Personally tho, I can use to suffer some for a > few days; it's all > part of getting out there, for me. And less weight. The lighter the boat, > the > more likely it's going to sail in light winds, and the less I'm going to > need to rely > on oars or minnkota. I took out the cushions that go in the cabin. It > allows for > more headroom, and yep, less weight. The boat came with a propane powered > Lehr. Haven't used it yet. It must be 50 lbs. For me, if the thing > hanging off > the transom, is to heavy that it requires me to sit farther up toward the > companionway just to keep > the boat balanced, then the thing hanging off the transom needs to go. But > this is for an M15. > It may not be an issue on an M17. > Cheers > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > montgomery_boats mailing list > montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! > > > ------------------------------ > > End of montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 169, Issue 7 > ************************************************ >

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Re: M_Boats: Oars for M15
by Dan Farrell 10 Mar '17

10 Mar '17

Good stuff. If anyone had issues with that last link like I did, try this one. I think there was some funny stuff at the end. http://www.compassionfitness.com/trekka Dan Farrell M17 #301 Blair Ashworth <blairashworth(a)gmail.com> wrote: >Brad, >Here is some great info on Oars for an M15. >Not sure if David Amundson is on this mail list, but his website >has some great info. > >http://leaguecity.dyndns.org:1953/trekka/Decksweepers.htm > >http://www.compassionfitness.com/trekka - Then click on his upgrades link. > >He has technical link as well to figure out the proper length. He built his >10 feet long. >Don't know how you'd store those on an M15, but perhaps you could find some >2-piece oars like they use at Gig Harbor SCAMP. > >They use these: >*Oars, 9’4″ 2-piece fiberglass shaft with bronze oarlocks ……. $ 329 pr.* >*Website is: http://www.ghboats.com/boats/boats-12-to-8-ft/12-scamp/ ><http://www.ghboats.com/boats/boats-12-to-8-ft/12-scamp/>* > > >*Anyway, if you find any good alternatives, pass them along. I would be >interested in installing oar locks and oars on my M15 as well.* >*Blair* >*M15 #126* > >Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2017 15:14:07 -0500 >From: brad kurlancheek <bkurlancheek(a)gmail.com> >To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com >Subject: M_Boats: Trolling motor for auxiliary propulsion >Message-ID: > <CALpQOtDEYA+Mv=P8M6Eov+xr9LwPHNM9iPp_4T1Q4YC9R6dO6g(a)mail.gmail.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > >I can surely see the need for power to out >maneuver bad currents/bad winds/bad seas. >A minnkota 30 probably won't measure up in such situation. >For calm waters, though, it'll get the job done. But after a few >hours, the battery's going to run out. >That said, last year I'd installed a pair of oarlocks >on the coamings, and made a portable wooden >bench, to fit across the seats, snug up close >to the companionway. This is on an M15. I >also took along a pair of 10' composite 2 part oars, which i'd >stored in the no man's land underneath the cockpit area. >Hauled the boat down to Raystown Lake, PA, in early >October for a 5-day cruise. On day 2, got the oars >in place, for a test run, and found that I couldn't angle the oars down >into the water far enough. So much for that idea. When I got >back I ordered a pair of rotatable oar locks. Hoping that solves the >problem. The only remaining question is whether there'll be sufficient >leverage to be able to apply to the oars, if the beam to oar length ratio >is too low. If I can get 2 knots in calm waters, that's plenty, and won't >have to panic when the minnkota battery runs out of juice. > >As to all the creature comforts issue while on a cruise, well, sure, >there's benefits, >obviously, to having them. Personally tho, I can use to suffer some for a >few days; it's all >part of getting out there, for me. And less weight. The lighter the boat, >the >more likely it's going to sail in light winds, and the less I'm going to >need to rely >on oars or minnkota. I took out the cushions that go in the cabin. It >allows for >more headroom, and yep, less weight. The boat came with a propane powered >Lehr. Haven't used it yet. It must be 50 lbs. For me, if the thing >hanging off >the transom, is to heavy that it requires me to sit farther up toward the >companionway just to keep >the boat balanced, then the thing hanging off the transom needs to go. But >this is for an M15. >It may not be an issue on an M17. >Cheers

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Oars for M15
by Blair Ashworth 09 Mar '17

09 Mar '17

Brad, Here is some great info on Oars for an M15. Not sure if David Amundson is on this mail list, but his website has some great info. http://leaguecity.dyndns.org:1953/trekka/Decksweepers.htm http://www.compassionfitness.com/trekka - Then click on his upgrades link. He has technical link as well to figure out the proper length. He built his 10 feet long. Don't know how you'd store those on an M15, but perhaps you could find some 2-piece oars like they use at Gig Harbor SCAMP. They use these: *Oars, 9’4″ 2-piece fiberglass shaft with bronze oarlocks ……. $ 329 pr.* *Website is: http://www.ghboats.com/boats/boats-12-to-8-ft/12-scamp/ <http://www.ghboats.com/boats/boats-12-to-8-ft/12-scamp/>* *Anyway, if you find any good alternatives, pass them along. I would be interested in installing oar locks and oars on my M15 as well.* *Blair* *M15 #126* Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2017 15:14:07 -0500 From: brad kurlancheek <bkurlancheek(a)gmail.com> To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: M_Boats: Trolling motor for auxiliary propulsion Message-ID: <CALpQOtDEYA+Mv=P8M6Eov+xr9LwPHNM9iPp_4T1Q4YC9R6dO6g(a)mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 I can surely see the need for power to out maneuver bad currents/bad winds/bad seas. A minnkota 30 probably won't measure up in such situation. For calm waters, though, it'll get the job done. But after a few hours, the battery's going to run out. That said, last year I'd installed a pair of oarlocks on the coamings, and made a portable wooden bench, to fit across the seats, snug up close to the companionway. This is on an M15. I also took along a pair of 10' composite 2 part oars, which i'd stored in the no man's land underneath the cockpit area. Hauled the boat down to Raystown Lake, PA, in early October for a 5-day cruise. On day 2, got the oars in place, for a test run, and found that I couldn't angle the oars down into the water far enough. So much for that idea. When I got back I ordered a pair of rotatable oar locks. Hoping that solves the problem. The only remaining question is whether there'll be sufficient leverage to be able to apply to the oars, if the beam to oar length ratio is too low. If I can get 2 knots in calm waters, that's plenty, and won't have to panic when the minnkota battery runs out of juice. As to all the creature comforts issue while on a cruise, well, sure, there's benefits, obviously, to having them. Personally tho, I can use to suffer some for a few days; it's all part of getting out there, for me. And less weight. The lighter the boat, the more likely it's going to sail in light winds, and the less I'm going to need to rely on oars or minnkota. I took out the cushions that go in the cabin. It allows for more headroom, and yep, less weight. The boat came with a propane powered Lehr. Haven't used it yet. It must be 50 lbs. For me, if the thing hanging off the transom, is to heavy that it requires me to sit farther up toward the companionway just to keep the boat balanced, then the thing hanging off the transom needs to go. But this is for an M15. It may not be an issue on an M17. Cheers

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Trolling motor for auxiliary propulsion
by brad kurlancheek 09 Mar '17

09 Mar '17

I can surely see the need for power to out maneuver bad currents/bad winds/bad seas. A minnkota 30 probably won't measure up in such situation. For calm waters, though, it'll get the job done. But after a few hours, the battery's going to run out. That said, last year I'd installed a pair of oarlocks on the coamings, and made a portable wooden bench, to fit across the seats, snug up close to the companionway. This is on an M15. I also took along a pair of 10' composite 2 part oars, which i'd stored in the no man's land underneath the cockpit area. Hauled the boat down to Raystown Lake, PA, in early October for a 5-day cruise. On day 2, got the oars in place, for a test run, and found that I couldn't angle the oars down into the water far enough. So much for that idea. When I got back I ordered a pair of rotatable oar locks. Hoping that solves the problem. The only remaining question is whether there'll be sufficient leverage to be able to apply to the oars, if the beam to oar length ratio is too low. If I can get 2 knots in calm waters, that's plenty, and won't have to panic when the minnkota battery runs out of juice. As to all the creature comforts issue while on a cruise, well, sure, there's benefits, obviously, to having them. Personally tho, I can use to suffer some for a few days; it's all part of getting out there, for me. And less weight. The lighter the boat, the more likely it's going to sail in light winds, and the less I'm going to need to rely on oars or minnkota. I took out the cushions that go in the cabin. It allows for more headroom, and yep, less weight. The boat came with a propane powered Lehr. Haven't used it yet. It must be 50 lbs. For me, if the thing hanging off the transom, is to heavy that it requires me to sit farther up toward the companionway just to keep the boat balanced, then the thing hanging off the transom needs to go. But this is for an M15. It may not be an issue on an M17. Cheers

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Re: M_Boats: Trolling motor aux.
by Josh ua 08 Mar '17

08 Mar '17

I have an m15 and i toss in a 45 lb thrust minn kota and deep cycle batt. every time i go out for the becalmed scenarios...rarely do i need to use it for more than 4 miles at a time but there have been no issues at those run times (less than 3 hrs consecutive). However it is less than useless in windy conditions. I can only assume slight current would negate progress as well.) but as an auxiliary for calm winds and no current, trolling motors are perfect. As a close quarters maneuvering aid, a trolling motor is also viable - until the wind blows. Then it is kinda worse than no motor for me because i get myself into spots where sails cant easily/quickly get me out. As for safety, like out running a storm or quickly returning to port to address an on-board emergency i would not put any faith in the trolling motor-dont get me wrong, id clamp it on and make an effort if it was an option but it would not be counted as a piece of safety equipment on my boat when planning a voyage. Never-the-less, as earlier stated, it goes in the boat every time I go out. On Mar 7, 2017 1:00 PM, <montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com> wrote: Send montgomery_boats mailing list submissions to montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ montgomery_boats or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com You can reach the person managing the list at montgomery_boats-owner(a)mailman.xmission.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of montgomery_boats digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Roller furlers for a Monty 17 (Jim Ellsworth) 2. Re: Trolling motor for auxiliary propulsion (John Schinnerer) 3. Re: Trolling motor for auxiliary propulsion (Dan Farrell) 4. Re: Trolling motor for auxiliary propulsion (Wilson Frye) 5. Re: Trolling motor for auxiliary propulsion (Wilson Frye) 6. Re: Trolling motor for auxiliary propulsion (John Schinnerer) 7. Trolling motor for auxiliary propulsion (brad kurlancheek) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2017 11:01:19 -0800 From: Jim Ellsworth <jellsworth603(a)gmail.com> To: STANLEY WHEATLEY <swwheatley(a)comcast.net>, For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Roller furlers for a Monty 17 Message-ID: <D858DA25-6550-4F6F-AE95-FF2F7437702A(a)gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Retaining clip is in but with washers as Dave mentioned that should do the trick. Sent from my iPhone > On Mar 6, 2017, at 8:59 AM, STANLEY WHEATLEY <swwheatley(a)comcast.net> wrote: > > Did you use the "turnbuckle retaining clip" that should have come with the furler? It is specifically designed to prevent what you describe. > >> >> On March 5, 2017 at 11:44 PM Jim Ellsworth <jellsworth603(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> I have the snap furl on Grace and a new Genoa with the foam to keep the >> shape when furled half way. I have not used it yet so can't comment on >> performance although it seems to be a top notch piece of equipment. I >> really did not want to go furling but I sail solo 95% of the time so it >> just made sense to get. I have one issue when trying to get the pin in the >> forestay the furler drum falls down over the turnbuckle hole making it >> impossible to get the pin in. I have been able to get it in by using a >> screwdriver to go through the hole and trying to slide the pin from the >> other side. Has anyone else experienced this? This will add at least 1/2 >> hour to launching trying to get the pin in. Other than that is seems great >> and I like that you can still use the jib halyard to get the sail up and >> down. >> >> Jim Ellsworth M-17 #603 Grace >> >> On Sun, Mar 5, 2017 at 7:48 PM, Stan Susman <stanpfa(a)pacbell.net> wrote: >> >>> I've seen that furler take some tremendous punishment and keep on ticking. >>> It's really in a different class then the CDI, I'm not knocking the CDI, >>> it's good for what you pay for them. But it only takes 1 time when stuff is >>> breaking that you wished you paid the freight on a stronger unitStan >>> >>> On Sunday, March 5, 2017 1:43 PM, Stanley Wheatley < >>> swwheatley(a)comcast.net> wrote: >>> >>> I have a Schaefer Snapfurl CF500 on my M17 and like it a lot. Bought it to >>> replace a CDI FF1 that came with the boat because I did not care for the >>> CDI's halyard setup. >>> >>> I paid something in the $500s, but that was two years ago during Defender's >>> annual sale. I would expect to pay more today. >>> >>> It should fit over your existing forestay. >>> >>> You will want to get a new genoa with uv protection and a padded luff. The >>> size depends on conditions you sail in. For my circumstances, a 150% would >>> be too big. I got a 135% from Elliott-Pattison and even that gets reefed as >>> often as not. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Dave Scobie >>> Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2017 3:09 PM >>> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats >>> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Roller furlers for a Monty 17 >>> >>> Tom: >>> >>> i recommend the Schaefer Snapfurl. >>> >>> i recommend having a new headsail made. get a 150% ... this is the sail >>> that Lyle designed the M17 to use. recutting a sail will only result in >>> disappointing performance. >>> >>> i recommend getting both the sail & furler from JudyB - >>> http://www.hydesailsdirect.com/ Judy knows the boats, can get you the >>> correct items and will treat you right. >>> >>> order soonest as this is the time of years backorders happen as folks get >>> ready for the sailing season! >>> >>> be aware that a furling unit will increase rigging time by 15-20 minutes if >>> you 'dry sail' the boat. >>> >>> :: Dave Scobie >>> :: former M15 owner #288 - http://www.freewebs.com/m15-name-scred >>> :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - http://www.m17-375.webs.com >>> :: Sage 17 #1 - AIR BORN - http://sagemarine.us/sage_17.html >>> :: Sage 15 sloop #001 - ASOLARE - http://sagemarine.us/sage_15. html >>> :: SageCat #000 - SAGECAT - http://sagemarine.us/sagecat.html >>> >>> On Sun, Mar 5, 2017 at 10:26 AM, Thomas Buzzi < thomaspbuzzi(a)gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Sailors, >>>> Asking for input from those that have installed roller furlers on their >>>> Monty 17's. What brand do you have and what did it cost? Did you have to >>>> change out your forestay to install the unit? Do you like what you have? >>>> Did you have to have a special jib made for the furler? >>>> Thanks for your help. >>>> >>>> Fair winds, >>>> Tom B,Monty 17 "AS-IS" >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2017 12:26:34 -0800 From: John Schinnerer <john(a)eco-living.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Trolling motor for auxiliary propulsion Message-ID: <d714e4bd-1970-d9ec-4401-9fa0c3243125(a)eco-living.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Forgot to respond to this part... On 03/05/2017 05:22 PM, Wilson Frye wrote: ... > Will any M17 owner who has used a trolling motor as auxiliary > propulsion for leaving and approaching the dock, and for short term > auxiliary propulsion when winds are light, share what you may have > learned from the experience? Haven't used one on my own M17, but have used them on a Potter 19 and a Venture 17. Both are somewhat lighter overall than the M17 - Potter at ~1200 and Venture at ~900. But the Potter has more windage than an M17, I reckon. Both boats had to be launched at a ramp, then motored several hundred yards under a low bridge to rig up at another dock past the bridge. The channel has a constant current, ~1 kt. at the low end (tide coming in against river outflow) and probably ~2.5 kt. at the high end (tide and river going out). The trolling motors were fine for this. On the return there was motoring back into the basin/dock to de-rig, against the same current and sometimes against some wind for the first part. The trolling motors also did fine with that. They were not fancy trollers - just ordinary old small ones. I think the Venure 17 one was just a 30 or 35 lb. thrust. The Potter might have had a 40-45 lb. thrust. Against max current and some headwind progress could be slow back to the dock, barely a knot or so over ground. So the motor might be running full or near full power, but only for a short time, a few hundred yards or maybe 1/4 mile at most when returning. As long as the battery was charged up, this was all fine. cheers, John S. -- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john(a)eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2017 19:13:50 -0600 From: Dan Farrell <msog(a)danf.us> To: Msog List <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Trolling motor for auxiliary propulsion Message-ID: <nvn5gphapimn2uqoj8ofg4or.1488849230935(a)email.android.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Will, A few years ago I purchased a 12v, 55lb thrust minnkota transom mount trying motor for use with my m17 on a lake that didn't allow gas engines. Like others, I found it powerful enough for only benign conditions. I grew to distrust its ability to power through heavier wind and waves. Nowadays I just use the sails as I feel more comfortable with sick and mooring approaches in force 5 or 6 under sail than I did with the troller. And if you can't trust it, what's the point? I did once use it on mille lacs, a 130,000 acre shallow choppy lake, to get out of a marina and into the lake, and I guess it worked, but I also was going maybe 50? into the wind and raised the sails as soon as I could. Since then I've considered the power it provides too low for any serious duties. If I were to repower with electric I'd look closely at a 24v, 100+ lb thrust model, but even that I fear just isn't made for aux work. For now I intend to use the old 6 horse Johnson on any water requiring auxiliary power. If I can only get it running again that is... Dan Farrell M17 #301 Wilson Frye <fryewe(a)mac.com> wrote: >All, > >Will any M17 owner who has used a trolling motor as auxiliary propulsion for leaving and approaching the dock, and for short term auxiliary propulsion when winds are light, share what you may have learned from the experience? > >I have a 6hp Tohatsu SailPro. It drives the boat at hull speed in benign conditions with very little throttle (perhaps quarter throttle). it sips fuel. It has a 6 amp alternator that is advertised as capability for recharging batteries. > >Fact is, the alternator is inadequate for battery charging. We will be cruising with a 50 quart Dometic refrigerator this year, and as a result we?ll be taking a 1000EUi Honda generator and a Noco Genius 26000 (26 amp capability?@14VDC that?s 364W) along to charge the 200AH of deep cycle batteries to keep them near topped up from day to day. > >Today it occurred to me that if my 45 pound thrust 12V trolling motor will push the boat at a reasonable speed when needed, why not leave the Tohatsu at home? > >Here?s my thinking? > - The outboard uses about a half gallon an hour at 6K RPM?about 5 knots under good conditions. > - The generator?s 0.6 gallon tank will run the generator at full load for 7 hours. > - Useful energy in the batteries is about 40 percent of capacity to avoid discharge below 50 percent?which is about 80AH. > - The battery charger will provide up to 26A when bulk charging the battery if it is significantly discharged. > - The trolling motor will draw 40A if run at position 5 (maximum speed), 32A at position 4, and about 24A on position 3. > - The Dometic draws about 3A when running to maintain temperature, after cooled down, and it?s duty cycle is likely to be about 40-50 percent of the time while cruising in summer in the Gulf. > - The Honda generator is quieter than the Tohatsu. > - The outboard is a heavy load on the transom when not in use. > - Solar panels are not mounted and are stored when underway. > - On days when the wind is unreliable, on the trolling motor we can move about 20 miles (assume 3.5 knots) in 6 hours. If we run the generator long enough to bulk re-charge the batteries for their overnight use, about an hour, before getting underway, then the charger should be able to complete the absorption phase of charging during the six hours of re-positioning (is the assumption that the charger will provide 20A to the trolling motor while charging the battery a good one?) > >And the overall effect will be that I will use about a third of the fuel using the generator and charger and trolling motor in this fashion, rather than the Tohatsu. And be able to keep the batteries charged efficiently without running the generator for extended time at anchorage on days that we move to a new location (solar will be used if at anchor all day), and be able to leave that heavy outboard off the transom. > >Thanks for any comments on the feasibility of doing this? > >Will ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2017 19:21:05 -0600 From: Wilson Frye <fryewe(a)mac.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Trolling motor for auxiliary propulsion Message-ID: <A51B0FA6-D158-4556-9E94-2F1A911C40E2(a)mac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Thanks, Dan. Because I envision the trolling motor being used when there is NO wind rather than when there is a lot of wind, I?m going to give it a shot? Will > On Mar 6, 2017, at 7:13 PM, Dan Farrell <msog(a)danf.us> wrote: > > Hi Will, > > A few years ago I purchased a 12v, 55lb thrust minnkota transom mount trying motor for use with my m17 on a lake that didn't allow gas engines. > > Like others, I found it powerful enough for only benign conditions. I grew to distrust its ability to power through heavier wind and waves. Nowadays I just use the sails as I feel more comfortable with sick and mooring approaches in force 5 or 6 under sail than I did with the troller. And if you can't trust it, what's the point? > > I did once use it on mille lacs, a 130,000 acre shallow choppy lake, to get out of a marina and into the lake, and I guess it worked, but I also was going maybe 50? into the wind and raised the sails as soon as I could. Since then I've considered the power it provides too low for any serious duties. > > If I were to repower with electric I'd look closely at a 24v, 100+ lb thrust model, but even that I fear just isn't made for aux work. For now I intend to use the old 6 horse Johnson on any water requiring auxiliary power. If I can only get it running again that is... > > > Dan Farrell > M17 #301 > > Wilson Frye <fryewe(a)mac.com> wrote: > >> All, >> >> Will any M17 owner who has used a trolling motor as auxiliary propulsion for leaving and approaching the dock, and for short term auxiliary propulsion when winds are light, share what you may have learned from the experience? >> >> I have a 6hp Tohatsu SailPro. It drives the boat at hull speed in benign conditions with very little throttle (perhaps quarter throttle). it sips fuel. It has a 6 amp alternator that is advertised as capability for recharging batteries. >> >> Fact is, the alternator is inadequate for battery charging. We will be cruising with a 50 quart Dometic refrigerator this year, and as a result we?ll be taking a 1000EUi Honda generator and a Noco Genius 26000 (26 amp capability?@14VDC that?s 364W) along to charge the 200AH of deep cycle batteries to keep them near topped up from day to day. >> >> Today it occurred to me that if my 45 pound thrust 12V trolling motor will push the boat at a reasonable speed when needed, why not leave the Tohatsu at home? >> >> Here?s my thinking? >> - The outboard uses about a half gallon an hour at 6K RPM?about 5 knots under good conditions. >> - The generator?s 0.6 gallon tank will run the generator at full load for 7 hours. >> - Useful energy in the batteries is about 40 percent of capacity to avoid discharge below 50 percent?which is about 80AH. >> - The battery charger will provide up to 26A when bulk charging the battery if it is significantly discharged. >> - The trolling motor will draw 40A if run at position 5 (maximum speed), 32A at position 4, and about 24A on position 3. >> - The Dometic draws about 3A when running to maintain temperature, after cooled down, and it?s duty cycle is likely to be about 40-50 percent of the time while cruising in summer in the Gulf. >> - The Honda generator is quieter than the Tohatsu. >> - The outboard is a heavy load on the transom when not in use. >> - Solar panels are not mounted and are stored when underway. >> - On days when the wind is unreliable, on the trolling motor we can move about 20 miles (assume 3.5 knots) in 6 hours. If we run the generator long enough to bulk re-charge the batteries for their overnight use, about an hour, before getting underway, then the charger should be able to complete the absorption phase of charging during the six hours of re-positioning (is the assumption that the charger will provide 20A to the trolling motor while charging the battery a good one?) >> >> And the overall effect will be that I will use about a third of the fuel using the generator and charger and trolling motor in this fashion, rather than the Tohatsu. And be able to keep the batteries charged efficiently without running the generator for extended time at anchorage on days that we move to a new location (solar will be used if at anchor all day), and be able to leave that heavy outboard off the transom. >> >> Thanks for any comments on the feasibility of doing this? >> >> Will ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2017 19:22:09 -0600 From: Wilson Frye <fryewe(a)mac.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Trolling motor for auxiliary propulsion Message-ID: <8AC340EC-9932-452E-81A9-8D598BE76E88(a)mac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Thanks, John. Just the kind of experience I was hoping to get a synopsis of? Will > On Mar 6, 2017, at 2:26 PM, John Schinnerer <john(a)eco-living.net> wrote: > > Forgot to respond to this part... > > On 03/05/2017 05:22 PM, Wilson Frye wrote: > ... >> Will any M17 owner who has used a trolling motor as auxiliary >> propulsion for leaving and approaching the dock, and for short term >> auxiliary propulsion when winds are light, share what you may have >> learned from the experience? > > Haven't used one on my own M17, but have used them on a Potter 19 and a Venture 17. Both are somewhat lighter overall than the M17 - Potter at ~1200 and Venture at ~900. But the Potter has more windage than an M17, I reckon. > > Both boats had to be launched at a ramp, then motored several hundred yards under a low bridge to rig up at another dock past the bridge. The channel has a constant current, ~1 kt. at the low end (tide coming in against river outflow) and probably ~2.5 kt. at the high end (tide and river going out). The trolling motors were fine for this. > On the return there was motoring back into the basin/dock to de-rig, against the same current and sometimes against some wind for the first part. The trolling motors also did fine with that. > They were not fancy trollers - just ordinary old small ones. I think the Venure 17 one was just a 30 or 35 lb. thrust. The Potter might have had a 40-45 lb. thrust. > > Against max current and some headwind progress could be slow back to the dock, barely a knot or so over ground. So the motor might be running full or near full power, but only for a short time, a few hundred yards or maybe 1/4 mile at most when returning. > As long as the battery was charged up, this was all fine. > > cheers, > John S. > > > -- > John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design > -------------------------------------------- > - Eco-Living - > Whole Systems Design Services > People - Place - Learning - Integration > john(a)eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 > http://eco-living.net > http://sociocracyconsulting.com > ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2017 20:07:52 -0800 From: John Schinnerer <john(a)eco-living.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Trolling motor for auxiliary propulsion Message-ID: <14cefb08-1450-3e2e-27e0-1ab2170095d8(a)eco-living.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Glad it is helpful... I'm not sure how the bigger trolling electrics compare with Torqeedo's electrics. I have a little experience with a Torqeedo 1003, which the club also bought as a gas-free auxiliary, mainly for one or two larger boats. It was used some on the Potter 19 and was plenty of power - Torqeedo compares it to a 3hp gas engine. Mostly it is used for one or another of two international folkboats the club has, which for those not familiar is a full keel 4750 lb. displacement boat. Again not as a long-range or intense conditions motoring solution, but for getting on and off a mooring in a fairly tight and flukey-wind location, or for motoring in and out under the bridge and back to the intermediate dock to rig up or down, same as described for the Potter 19 and Venture 17. Definitely enough power for that. And, range is still an issue, for any electric...I don't have enough experience to back, or buck, Torqeedo's claims of range/running time. It does have a high-tech monitor screen which tells you power usage, remaining run time at current usage, etc. etc. so at least in terms of information you've got more than with a regular trolling motor and battery. cheers, John S. On 03/06/2017 05:22 PM, Wilson Frye wrote: > Thanks, John. Just the kind of experience I was hoping to get a synopsis of? > > Will > >> On Mar 6, 2017, at 2:26 PM, John Schinnerer <john(a)eco-living.net> wrote: >> >> Forgot to respond to this part... >> >> On 03/05/2017 05:22 PM, Wilson Frye wrote: >> ... >>> Will any M17 owner who has used a trolling motor as auxiliary >>> propulsion for leaving and approaching the dock, and for short term >>> auxiliary propulsion when winds are light, share what you may have >>> learned from the experience? >> >> Haven't used one on my own M17, but have used them on a Potter 19 and a Venture 17. Both are somewhat lighter overall than the M17 - Potter at ~1200 and Venture at ~900. But the Potter has more windage than an M17, I reckon. >> >> Both boats had to be launched at a ramp, then motored several hundred yards under a low bridge to rig up at another dock past the bridge. The channel has a constant current, ~1 kt. at the low end (tide coming in against river outflow) and probably ~2.5 kt. at the high end (tide and river going out). The trolling motors were fine for this. >> On the return there was motoring back into the basin/dock to de-rig, against the same current and sometimes against some wind for the first part. The trolling motors also did fine with that. >> They were not fancy trollers - just ordinary old small ones. I think the Venure 17 one was just a 30 or 35 lb. thrust. The Potter might have had a 40-45 lb. thrust. >> >> Against max current and some headwind progress could be slow back to the dock, barely a knot or so over ground. So the motor might be running full or near full power, but only for a short time, a few hundred yards or maybe 1/4 mile at most when returning. >> As long as the battery was charged up, this was all fine. >> >> cheers, >> John S. >> >> >> -- >> John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design >> -------------------------------------------- >> - Eco-Living - >> Whole Systems Design Services >> People - Place - Learning - Integration >> john(a)eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 >> http://eco-living.net >> http://sociocracyconsulting.com >> > > -- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john(a)eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2017 13:47:42 -0500 From: brad kurlancheek <bkurlancheek(a)gmail.com> To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: M_Boats: Trolling motor for auxiliary propulsion Message-ID: <CALpQOtDBFEx_QxB8SbuJ7PwMLJU1SzU0fdYHRx8w0eJFWJiMuA(a)mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 You could just dish the fridge, generator, gas motor, and generator. Here'd be your weight savings: Honda generator 29 lbs Tohatsu (empty) 55 lbs Dometic Fridge (empty) 44 lbs Noco Genius Charger 8 lbs 10 gallons fuel 60 lbs Total Weight 196 lbs An empty M17 is 1600 lbs - so you're adding over 12 % additional weight with this stuff. You could just go with a minnkota 30 (25 lbs), and a 100 AH battery (25 lbs). A solar panel would be another 5 lbs. The boat would sail easier, meaning less need for the engine. Just a thought. ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ montgomery_boats mailing list montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! ------------------------------ End of montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 169, Issue 4 ************************************************

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Trolling motor for auxiliary propulsion
by brad kurlancheek 07 Mar '17

07 Mar '17

You could just dish the fridge, generator, gas motor, and generator. Here'd be your weight savings: Honda generator 29 lbs Tohatsu (empty) 55 lbs Dometic Fridge (empty) 44 lbs Noco Genius Charger 8 lbs 10 gallons fuel 60 lbs Total Weight 196 lbs An empty M17 is 1600 lbs - so you're adding over 12 % additional weight with this stuff. You could just go with a minnkota 30 (25 lbs), and a 100 AH battery (25 lbs). A solar panel would be another 5 lbs. The boat would sail easier, meaning less need for the engine. Just a thought.

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Trolling motor for auxiliary propulsion
by Wilson Frye 07 Mar '17

07 Mar '17

All, Will any M17 owner who has used a trolling motor as auxiliary propulsion for leaving and approaching the dock, and for short term auxiliary propulsion when winds are light, share what you may have learned from the experience? I have a 6hp Tohatsu SailPro. It drives the boat at hull speed in benign conditions with very little throttle (perhaps quarter throttle). it sips fuel. It has a 6 amp alternator that is advertised as capability for recharging batteries. Fact is, the alternator is inadequate for battery charging. We will be cruising with a 50 quart Dometic refrigerator this year, and as a result we’ll be taking a 1000EUi Honda generator and a Noco Genius 26000 (26 amp capability…@14VDC that’s 364W) along to charge the 200AH of deep cycle batteries to keep them near topped up from day to day. Today it occurred to me that if my 45 pound thrust 12V trolling motor will push the boat at a reasonable speed when needed, why not leave the Tohatsu at home? Here’s my thinking… - The outboard uses about a half gallon an hour at 6K RPM…about 5 knots under good conditions. - The generator’s 0.6 gallon tank will run the generator at full load for 7 hours. - Useful energy in the batteries is about 40 percent of capacity to avoid discharge below 50 percent…which is about 80AH. - The battery charger will provide up to 26A when bulk charging the battery if it is significantly discharged. - The trolling motor will draw 40A if run at position 5 (maximum speed), 32A at position 4, and about 24A on position 3. - The Dometic draws about 3A when running to maintain temperature, after cooled down, and it’s duty cycle is likely to be about 40-50 percent of the time while cruising in summer in the Gulf. - The Honda generator is quieter than the Tohatsu. - The outboard is a heavy load on the transom when not in use. - Solar panels are not mounted and are stored when underway. - On days when the wind is unreliable, on the trolling motor we can move about 20 miles (assume 3.5 knots) in 6 hours. If we run the generator long enough to bulk re-charge the batteries for their overnight use, about an hour, before getting underway, then the charger should be able to complete the absorption phase of charging during the six hours of re-positioning (is the assumption that the charger will provide 20A to the trolling motor while charging the battery a good one?) And the overall effect will be that I will use about a third of the fuel using the generator and charger and trolling motor in this fashion, rather than the Tohatsu. And be able to keep the batteries charged efficiently without running the generator for extended time at anchorage on days that we move to a new location (solar will be used if at anchor all day), and be able to leave that heavy outboard off the transom. Thanks for any comments on the feasibility of doing this… Will

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