November 2016 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

Standing rigging stowage while trailering
by David Grah 18 Nov '16

18 Nov '16

On my Montgomery 15 I leave the shrouds attached and connect the bottom of the forestay to the bottom of the starboard shroud. Then, with the mast down and on its crutches, I pull the middle portion of the cables forward and pull them with a loop of line forward toward the bottom of the mast. Doing this is fast and keeps them clear of rubbing on anything. David GrahBishop CaliforniaMontgomery 15 - Sky Message: 1 Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2016 11:04:37 -0800 From: John Schinnerer <john(a)eco-living.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Standing rigging stowage while trailering. Message-ID: <7bf469fc-a948-2d76-fed3-59d8caa9383c(a)eco-living.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed On my M17, the mast is raised and lowered forward, not aft. It came set up that way, and I like it for various reasons. One is that the head of the mast is at the front of the boat. So after the mast comes down and is slid back onto the crutch at the rear, I just collect the stays & shrouds starting at the mast head up at the bow, and working down the mast/aft on the boat. I bungee them along the mast as I go along. The shrouds & forestay I keep bundling to the mast towards the bottom/stern, until the remaining slack forms a large/soft "U," just a bit aft of the companionway. The backstay (which you haven't got on an M15) I just run all the way to the bottom/aft, bundling it to the mast along with the halyards & topping lift. cheers, John S.

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Re: M_Boats: Standing rigging stowage while trailering & mast raising, lowering
by GILASAILR＠aol.com 18 Nov '16

18 Nov '16

A Ranger 20 is a great boat IMO - I have had two (one for rental fleet) my personal one was built by Intermountain Design and was some of the highest quality laminating I have seen on a boat for it's era. I believe the deck mold was a seven part piece as the cockpit seats (among other areas) were undercut to allow for a large seat platform and a larger cockpit sole. The early boats had Kenyon spar sets with EXCELLENT hard black anodizing Hood narrow panel sails (way cool in the day" full teflon boltrope and highest quality deck hardware. Great sailing boats esp. in a moderate to very heavy breeze. PLUS full floatation and standing headroom under the cabin dodger !! If you are looking for a larger boat than a 17 - check them out. The ONLY thing I didn't like was the clipper-type bow - otherwise an 22 on a scale of 10! Stored mine mast-up on the hard - yes - the mast stepping is less than easy due to huge 'companionway'. Enuf of my rant on a non WrinkleBoat. PS very hard to sail to rating in light air but fine above that - + built like a tank (not overweight but STRONG+) GO In a message dated 11/17/2016 4:50:02 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, john(a)eco-living.net writes: You're welcome...kids, do try this at home, first... :-) It works on the M17 because the shrouds attach almost beside the mast. If they attached further aft - as they do on some boats - they would have to be detached, or loosened some at least, or the mast would pull them tight before getting fully vertical and couldn't go any further up. On the M15 I think the shrouds attach a bit further aft of the mast...? Looks like it from the line drawing, and from what I remember of being on Larry's boat recently, and Daniel's long ago. So this may not work on an M15, unless you put a lever-lock or some kind of appropriate quick-adjust on the shroud to leave enough slack to get all the way up. You wouldn't want to just detach them, because they're what keeps the mast from just tipping over sideways as you get it up... A friend and I tried raising from bow on a Ranger 20 he used to own - one set of the shrouds had been moved to a further aft mounting point (a not uncommon Ranger 20 mod apparently) and so it just couldn't go up from bow (unless we undid the one set of shrouds, which was more trouble than worth). cheers, John S. On 11/17/2016 03:26 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote: > thanks for the details, John. I will consider converting to that. Getting > rid of the gin pole and its attendant lines would be fine with me. > Tom B > > On Thu, Nov 17, 2016 at 4:36 PM, John Schinnerer <john(a)eco-living.net> > wrote: > >> My split backstay wires come together at a stainless steel ring. The >> single backstay goes from ring to masthead, and it's the single backstay >> that I connect/disconnect, at the ring. >> >> So it's only the single backstay that I bundle to the mast. The split >> part, connected at the ring, stays attached to the stern. >> >> My backstay connection setup may be different than some...the standing >> rigging was supposedly inspected and refurbished some years ago at a yard >> in Seattle, by the previous owners, it may have gotten changed the...what >> is OEM split backstay hardware/setup for a 1974 M17? :-) >> >> Raising/lowering mast I can just do solo, no A-frame or gin pole or >> anything needed. I run a safety/belay line from end of (single part of) >> backstay through a U-turn on the mast crutch and forward to the bow. The >> mast is just light enough that while standing at the bow I can bring it up >> with a lift to my shoulder, then the line starts to be effective; but >> mostly I just push it up from the first lift to my shoulder and then it's >> more than halfway up and real easy from there on. The line is really just >> for safety, going up - I keep the slack out of it, basically. Once mast is >> up the line secures it there for the minute it takes me to connect the >> backstay. >> Coming down, same setup, but the line actually takes the weight at first >> as the mast starts down and I move up to the bow. Then it's down far enough >> where I switch the support from safety line to me, and again it's just >> light enough that I can lower it the rest of the way OK. >> >> Being up on the bow, one is lifting starting from higher up, and can reach >> higher all the way along, both raising and lowering. >> Also, the few steps from bow to mast step (or vice versa) are fewer and >> much easier to negotiate (especially when walking mast up or down!) than >> from stern to mast step. >> It probably also helps some that I'm 6' 3" tall. I can reach to support >> the mast at a higher angle, so the downward weight is less, and then take >> it down slowly and my reach becomes less and less as the weight I have to >> support increases. >> But still, the leverage and height at the bow and the ease of moving >> towards or away from the step on the foredeck, compared to from cockpit, is >> a big advantage in any case. >> >> Another plus with raising from bow, when rigging in your typical launch >> ramp lot, is that the mast sticks out over the tow vehicle, rather than out >> into what is usually a vehicle lane through the lot. >> >> cheers, >> John S. >> >> On 11/17/2016 12:43 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote: >> >>> Interesting. How do you handle the split backstay while doing that? Can >>> you >>> use a gin pole to assist you in lowering the mast? I built up my boom >>> crutch with a nice big trailer roller on it so once I drop it onto that I >>> can just roooolll it forward so the step rests on the bow pulpit. Then I >>> just gather up the shrouds, etc. with the bungee cord treatement. >>> >>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2016 at 1:04 PM, John Schinnerer <john(a)eco-living.net> >>> wrote: >>> >>> On my M17, the mast is raised and lowered forward, not aft. It came set up >>>> that way, and I like it for various reasons. >>>> One is that the head of the mast is at the front of the boat. >>>> So after the mast comes down and is slid back onto the crutch at the >>>> rear, >>>> I just collect the stays & shrouds starting at the mast head up at the >>>> bow, >>>> and working down the mast/aft on the boat. I bungee them along the mast >>>> as >>>> I go along. The shrouds & forestay I keep bundling to the mast towards >>>> the >>>> bottom/stern, until the remaining slack forms a large/soft "U," just a >>>> bit >>>> aft of the companionway. The backstay (which you haven't got on an M15) >>>> I >>>> just run all the way to the bottom/aft, bundling it to the mast along >>>> with >>>> the halyards & topping lift. >>>> >>>> cheers, >>>> John S. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 11/16/2016 08:31 PM, Josh ua wrote: >>>> >>>> On Honeybee (M15 hn 115) I gather all three together in an approximately >>>>> 18 >>>>> inch diameter coil and securely suspend the coil from the cradled mast >>>>> near >>>>> their attachment points using caution to avoid kinks and chafe. Just >>>>> curious to hear how you do it. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>> John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design >>>> -------------------------------------------- >>>> - Eco-Living - >>>> Whole Systems Design Services >>>> People - Place - Learning - Integration >>>> john(a)eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 >>>> http://eco-living.net >>>> http://sociocracyconsulting.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >> -- >> John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design >> -------------------------------------------- >> - Eco-Living - >> Whole Systems Design Services >> People - Place - Learning - Integration >> john(a)eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 >> http://eco-living.net >> http://sociocracyconsulting.com >> >> -- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john(a)eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com

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Re: M_Boats: Sheet to tiller steering
by GILASAILR＠aol.com 17 Nov '16

17 Nov '16

always has to be accurate --- I will get to measuring the suckers ASAP! In a message dated 11/16/2016 11:11:13 P.M. US Mountain Standard Tim, jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org writes: A peck is .268 of a bushel, un less the peppers are pickled, in which case a peck of pickled peppers is .273 of a bushel. -----Original Message----- From: Thomas Buzzi Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2016 8:12 PM To: GILASAILR(a)aol.com ; For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sheet to tiller steering I think a peck is some fraction of a bushel. Peppers are.... well.......peppers. On Wed, Nov 16, 2016 at 8:05 PM, GILASAILR--- via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> wrote: > What is the meaning of life? - why did the paint 'crater on my truck? > > What is a peck of peppers? > > I ask in earnest brother.... > > GO > > they iz 'watching' you - get out the Reynolds Wrap > > > > > In a message dated 11/16/2016 6:21:51 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, > stanpfa(a)pacbell.net writes: > > If there's questions ask away.Borrego, Paintboy, and a dozen other > aliases to keep the NSA guessing > -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. SPAMfighter has removed 17737 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len Do you have a slow PC? Try a Free scan http://www.spamfighter.com/SLOW-PCfighter?cid=sigen

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Re: M_Boats: Sheet to tiller steering
by bownez＠juno.com 17 Nov '16

17 Nov '16

Dear Connie, I'm sure you are familiar with the adage : "tyranny of the tiller"" used to describe the long hours required at the helm to cover distances. Since all of my sailing has been on large lakes, self steering has never really been a priority. My M23 has a Navik windvane, which works like magic, but I have never really used it for a long voyage (yet). It is fascinating to watch it in action. I'm downsizing back to my M17, which has prompted all these questions about sheet to tiller steering. As always, thank you for your knowledgeable input. Bones ____________________________________________________________ Affordable Wireless Plans Set up is easy. Get online in minutes. Starting at only $14.95 per month! www.netzero.net?refcd=nzmem0216

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Re: M_Boats: Sheet to tiller steering
by bownez＠juno.com 17 Nov '16

17 Nov '16

Hi Stan, Thanks for your input, this is a technique that needs to be experimented with to see what works best. Like sailing in general.....you don't get it until you do it, over and over. Bones ____________________________________________________________ Police Urge Americans to Carry This With Them at All Times Smart Trends http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/582dd4a54a1354a462cbst01vuc

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Re: M_Boats: Sheet to tiller steering
by GILASAILR＠aol.com 17 Nov '16

17 Nov '16

What is the meaning of life? - why did the paint 'crater on my truck? What is a peck of peppers? I ask in earnest brother.... GO they iz 'watching' you - get out the Reynolds Wrap In a message dated 11/16/2016 6:21:51 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, stanpfa(a)pacbell.net writes: If there's questions ask away.Borrego, Paintboy, and a dozen other aliases to keep the NSA guessing

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Re: M_Boats: Sheet to tiller steering
by bownez＠juno.com 17 Nov '16

17 Nov '16

I have a book about self steering from Gerard Dijkstra, It does go over steering using the sails...... Bones ____________________________________________________________ How To Fix Your Fatigue (Do This Every Day) gundrymd.com http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/582dd51f27ba551e62d4st03vuc

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Re: M_Boats: Sheet to tiller steering
by bownez＠juno.com 17 Nov '16

17 Nov '16

Gary, I need to spend more time around you so I can learn your language...... Bones ____________________________________________________________ How To Remove Eye Bags & Lip Lines Fast (Watch) Womans Weekly http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/582dd3edcc94753ed3c8bst03vuc

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Re: M_Boats: Sheet to tiller steering
by bownez＠juno.com 17 Nov '16

17 Nov '16

Jerry, Connie, Thank you for your gifted insight. 1/4 inch it is for the tubing. Mr. Bones ____________________________________________________________ 'Stunning' Truth About Neuropathy Nerve Pain neuropathytreatmentgroup.com http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/582c86407266d64040cdst02vuc

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Re: M_Boats: montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 165, Issue 11 - Sheet to Tiller Sailing
by brad kurlancheek 16 Nov '16

16 Nov '16

Bones, Andrew Evans' "Single Handed Sailing" avail on amazon as a kindle edition, also has a lengthy discussion on various set-ups for sheet to tiller. Good luck. Been meaning to give it a go myself. - Brad On Tue, Nov 15, 2016 at 2:00 PM, < montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com> wrote: > Send montgomery_boats mailing list submissions to > montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ > montgomery_boats > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > montgomery_boats-owner(a)mailman.xmission.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of montgomery_boats digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Sheet to tiller steering (bownez(a)juno.com) > 2. M23 for sale (bownez(a)juno.com) > 3. Re: Sheet to tiller steering (jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org) > 4. Re: Sheet to tiller steering (Conbert Benneck) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2016 16:02:07 GMT > From: "bownez(a)juno.com" <bownez(a)juno.com> > To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > Subject: M_Boats: Sheet to tiller steering > Message-ID: <20161115.100207.4334.0(a)webmail10.vgs.untd.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 > > Hello Listers, > > I plan on experimenting with self steering for the M17 this spring. I know > the basic set-up, and I understand it requires a lot of testing, adjusting, > positioning. etc. > Todd Mills was the true expert on this, I don't know if he stills monitors > the site. > > Anyway, I know surgical tubing is the way to go for the spring tension, > but, I do not know the size to buy. > Anyone played with this and can clue me as to what to order? > > Thanks, > > Mr. Bones > ____________________________________________________________ > How To Fix Your Fatigue (Do This Every Day) > gundrymd.com > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/582b31f0b06e631f04877st03vuc > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2016 16:05:15 GMT > From: "bownez(a)juno.com" <bownez(a)juno.com> > To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > Subject: M_Boats: M23 for sale > Message-ID: <20161115.100515.4334.1(a)webmail10.vgs.untd.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 > > Listers, > > Just a subtle reminder that my M23 "Dhana" is still up for sale. > Interested parties can E-mail me off list for details. > > bownez(a)juno.com > > Later, > > Mr. Bones > Mpls > ____________________________________________________________ > 1 Simple Trick Removes Eye Bags & Lip Lines In Seconds > Daily Tiply > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/582b326a64719326a56a8st03vuc > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2016 08:26:29 -0800 > From: <jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org> > To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sheet to tiller steering > Message-ID: <7B78B50E7CCA405DAAE12684176882D8@CH002914> > Content-Type: text/plain > > I haven't done this for about 30 years, but thinner tubing is the way to > go; > I'd guess 1/4". It works very well on either of the M boats down to about > a > beam reach. Dave Scobie might have something to add. > > -----Original Message----- > From: bownez(a)juno.com > Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2016 8:02 AM > To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > Subject: M_Boats: Sheet to tiller steering > > Hello Listers, > > I plan on experimenting with self steering for the M17 this spring. I know > the basic set-up, and I understand it requires a lot of testing, > adjusting, > positioning. etc. > Todd Mills was the true expert on this, I don't know if he stills monitors > the site. > > Anyway, I know surgical tubing is the way to go for the spring tension, > but, > I do not know the size to buy. > Anyone played with this and can clue me as to what to order? > > Thanks, > > Mr. Bones > ____________________________________________________________ > How To Fix Your Fatigue (Do This Every Day) > gundrymd.com > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/582b31f0b06e631f04877st03vuc > > -- > I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. > SPAMfighter has removed 17602 of my spam emails to date. > Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len > > Do you have a slow PC? Try a Free scan > http://www.spamfighter.com/SLOW-PCfighter?cid=sigen > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2016 10:45:13 -0600 > From: Conbert Benneck <chbenneck(a)gmail.com> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sheet to tiller steering > Message-ID: <02a4e62f-a7a5-9f60-22d0-a441bd5bc39c(a)gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed > > On 11/15/2016 10:02 AM, bownez(a)juno.com wrote: > > Hi Bones, > > You can buy various diameters if surgical tubing at a medical supply house. > > 1/4" diameter is probably a good size to start with. You can always > double it up (two strands); or go to three strands if you find that you > need a bit more strength. > > The "bible" I used when playing the sheet-to-tiller game was John > Letchers book on self steering. John used this technique when sailing > his boat from Hawaii back to the West Coast. (available from AMAZON) > > I had built a wind vane self steering system for our T-L 29, but when I > used it the cockpit was criss-crossed with lines and the Admirable had > difficulty lying down on a cockpit cushion and improving her suntan. > So, the next thing to try was sheet to till steering. > > It worked very nicely; eliminated all the lines crossing the cockpit, > resulting in a happy Admirable, so I stayed with that for years. > > The basic principle is: you pull a bight in the jib / genoa sheet. > Attach a small line there; run it across the cockpit to a block and back > to the tiller. > The surgical tubing attaches to the other side of the cockpit and is a > loop is dropped over the end of the tiller. > > Now you have to get on your course; attach the line to the tiller; and > balance the pull of the line to the sheet bight (dependent on wind > strength) with the stretched surgical tubing. > > If your boat now changes heading, the load on the sheet changes. The > surgical tubing now pulls the tiller which causes the boat to head up. > As the boat gets back on course the sheet pressure builds; stretching > the surgical tubing and pulling the tiller. Eventually a balance of > forces is achieved and you are back on course. > > When we sailed from Watch Hill, RI to Block Island (about 24 NM) I'd set > up my sheet to tiller steering, and it would hold a good course to Block > Island. > > Happy playing with a new toy. > > Connie > > > > > > > Hello Listers, > > > > I plan on experimenting with self steering for the M17 this spring. I > know the basic set-up, and I understand it requires a lot of testing, > adjusting, positioning. etc. > > Todd Mills was the true expert on this, I don't know if he stills > monitors the site. > > > > Anyway, I know surgical tubing is the way to go for the spring tension, > but, I do not know the size to buy. > > Anyone played with this and can clue me as to what to order? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Mr. Bones > > ____________________________________________________________ > > How To Fix Your Fatigue (Do This Every Day) > > gundrymd.com > > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/582b31f0b06e631f04877st03vuc > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > montgomery_boats mailing list > montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! > > > ------------------------------ > > End of montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 165, Issue 11 > ************************************************* >

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