February 2014 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

Re: M_Boats: Projects
by SALGLESSER＠aol.com 16 Feb '14

16 Feb '14

Hi Tom, G-10 is highly dangerous in dust form. Be sure to wear a face mask when sanding G-10. (sorry for the earlier no post post) sal In a message dated 2/16/2014 10:11:44 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, thomaspbuzzi(a)gmail.com writes: Was reading one of Capt'n Pauley's columns, Small Craft Advisor, Mar/Apr, about using the proper materials for backing plates. Facing having to redo all my deck cleats and adding a couple I initially brushed off this article as having "been there, done that" but I am glad I read it because he mentioned his choice of backing plate material which was"G-10" fiberglass boards. They are solid fiberglass build up in board form and make excellent backing plates not being subject to corrosion, or rot, etc. Looking on the web for the material turned up "Wholesale Marine" which just happen to have an analagous material on sale at the moment. Jamestown disbributors also sells this material in 2x3 or 3x6 precut blanks which allow you to spend just enough for the material precut. Nice to know there is an industry out there built around catering to boatowner needs. Jerry, I also read where you are going to use vinylester fiberglass in your new 15'er. I had an S2 at one time and the bane of those hulls was blistering which was blamed on the vinylester resins used in the layup. Has something changed along this line of reasoning? My old boat had almost terminal blisters even with constant maintenance of bottom coatings. Fair winds, Tom B Mont 17, #258

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Re: M_Boats: Projects
by SALGLESSER＠aol.com 16 Feb '14

16 Feb '14

In a message dated 2/16/2014 10:11:44 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, thomaspbuzzi(a)gmail.com writes: Was reading one of Capt'n Pauley's columns, Small Craft Advisor, Mar/Apr, about using the proper materials for backing plates. Facing having to redo all my deck cleats and adding a couple I initially brushed off this article as having "been there, done that" but I am glad I read it because he mentioned his choice of backing plate material which was"G-10" fiberglass boards. They are solid fiberglass build up in board form and make excellent backing plates not being subject to corrosion, or rot, etc. Looking on the web for the material turned up "Wholesale Marine" which just happen to have an analagous material on sale at the moment. Jamestown disbributors also sells this material in 2x3 or 3x6 precut blanks which allow you to spend just enough for the material precut. Nice to know there is an industry out there built around catering to boatowner needs. Jerry, I also read where you are going to use vinylester fiberglass in your new 15'er. I had an S2 at one time and the bane of those hulls was blistering which was blamed on the vinylester resins used in the layup. Has something changed along this line of reasoning? My old boat had almost terminal blisters even with constant maintenance of bottom coatings. Fair winds, Tom B Mont 17, #258

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M17 for sale
by redcat 16 Feb '14

16 Feb '14

I have a 1983 M17, decent shape in a slip in New Bern, NC I'd like to sell. How do I go about psting this on the list? I'd like to give the group a shot at it before I list on Sailing Texas.

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Re: M_Boats: montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 131, Issue 4
by gordonsaville80＠yahoo.com 16 Feb '14

16 Feb '14

Honda 5-60 lb. Two honda 2'es 60 lb. two outboards on a 17 footer are you nuts. Pound for pound I'ed go with the 2'es if they had remote fuel tanks. Oh we'll my 4 hp merc long shaft runs good but is to heavy for the boat though. Sent from my iPod > On Jan 13, 2014, at 8:15 PM, montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com wrote: > > Send montgomery_boats mailing list submissions to > montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > montgomery_boats-owner(a)mailman.xmission.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of montgomery_boats digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: outboard motors (W David Scobie) > 2. Re: outboard motors (Hughston, Larry@DGS) > 3. Re: outboard motors (Thomas Buzzi) > 4. Re: outboard motors (Steve Lindeman) > 5. Re: outboard motors (W David Scobie) > 6. Re: outboard motors (dennis olmstead) > 7. Re: outboard motors (Tom Jenkins) > 8. Re: outboard motors (W David Scobie) > 9. Re: outboard motors (Thomas Buzzi) > 10. Re: outboard motors (W David Scobie) > 11. Re: outboard motors (Tom Smith) > 12. Re: outboard motors (W David Scobie) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2014 08:17:16 -0800 (PST) > From: W David Scobie <wdscobie(a)yahoo.com> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: outboard motors > Message-ID: > <1389629836.99573.YahooMailBasic(a)web121705.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Larry: > > for 99% of your motoring you will be fine. you may not be able to move the boat at hull speed in 15-20 kt winds and seas over 2' or 3'. i bet you would see at least 4kts. > > if your motor runs good not worth replacing. > > a couple years ago Stan (aka, Paintboy) towed Jerry M. & me back into the harbor because we didn't have a motor on GOSHAWK. Stan had the boats going 4 kts .. this was with a Honda 2HP, flat seas and little to no wind. > > folks try to put to much motor on these boats. Jerry has told me some amazing stories concerning M17 & M15 owners and the motors they have put on the transoms. > > > :: Dave Scobie > > -------------------------------------------- > On Mon, 1/13/14, Hughston, Larry@DGS <Larry.Hughston(a)dgs.ca.gov> wrote: > > I have the Nissan four stroke 3.5 > with a long shaft. F-N only.???Would this be > under-powered for a Monty 17? > > ---Larry Hughston in Sacramento (getting ready to sell my > M-15 in good but not Bristol condition.) > > -----Original Message----- > On Behalf Of Dave Scobie > Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2014 8:36 PM > Subject: Re: M_Boats: outboard motors > > Bones is right that the best four horsepower was the Yamaha. > The problem is that the current build 4 horsepower is really > the 6 horsepower motor ... So you have a motor that weighs > 70 or so pounds. > > I am not aware of any true 4 horsepower motor still being > made. All that I am aware are really 6 horsepower, heavy, > motors. > > :: Dave Scobie > > bownez(a)juno.com > wrote: > >> Tom, >> >> I tried an older 3hp Johnson 2 stroke on my M17 years > ago that had steering via the head and no transmission. It > worked OK out on the water, (as far as an old smelly, noisy, > polluting 2 stroke goes) but in the marina it was a pain. > There is no neutral so once it is started, you are moving. > In a tight docking situation, it presented anxious moments. >> >> I an using a 2001 Yamaha 4hp, 4 stroke with F-N-R and > think it's the premier engine for an M17. I think Dave > Scobie mention they are no longer being made. >> >> You may wish to contact Jerry Lee for the one he has up > for sale..... >> >> Good luck! >> >> Bones > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2014 16:21:53 +0000 > From: "Hughston, Larry@DGS" <Larry.Hughston(a)dgs.ca.gov> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: outboard motors > Message-ID: > <CFCE3303070E064F91C3FCDDB81C7F11167A6537(a)057-SN2MPN1-002.057d.mgd.msft.net> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Jerry, does your Yamaha have F-N-R ?. I have seen some say that Yamahas are the only truly "Marine" engines. What have you heard about modern Yamaha outboard engines in salt water? I am getting a used boat with two Honda 40s at the transom. What should I be aware of in salt water (the Delta and SF Bay) environments and keeping my engines clean of salt ? > > ---- Larry Hughston (selling my M-15 Old 189) > > -----Original Message----- > From: montgomery_boats-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of jerry montgomery > Sent: Monday, January 13, 2014 8:15 AM > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > Subject: Re: M_Boats: outboard motors > > Larry- I have a Yamaha 3 on my Sage and have never run it anywhere near wide open. > > jerry > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Hughston, Larry@DGS" <Larry.Hughston(a)dgs.ca.gov> > To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Sent: Monday, January 13, 2014 8:06 AM > Subject: Re: M_Boats: outboard motors > > >> I have the Nissan four stroke 3.5 with a long shaft. F-N only. Would this >> be under-powered for a Monty 17? >> >> ---Larry Hughston in Sacramento (getting ready to sell my M-15 in good but >> not Bristol condition.) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: montgomery_boats-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com >> [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Dave >> Scobie >> Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2014 8:36 PM >> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats >> Subject: Re: M_Boats: outboard motors >> >> Bones is right that the best four horsepower was the Yamaha. The problem >> is that the current build 4 horsepower is really the 6 horsepower motor >> ... So you have a motor that weighs 70 or so pounds. >> >> I am not aware of any true 4 horsepower motor still being made. All that I >> am aware are really 6 horsepower, heavy, motors. >> >> :: Dave Scobie >> >> bownez(a)juno.com wrote: >> >>> Tom, >>> >>> I tried an older 3hp Johnson 2 stroke on my M17 years ago that had >>> steering via the head and no transmission. It worked OK out on the water, >>> (as far as an old smelly, noisy, polluting 2 stroke goes) but in the >>> marina it was a pain. There is no neutral so once it is started, you are >>> moving. In a tight docking situation, it presented anxious moments. >>> >>> I an using a 2001 Yamaha 4hp, 4 stroke with F-N-R and think it's the >>> premier engine for an M17. I think Dave Scobie mention they are no longer >>> being made. >>> >>> You may wish to contact Jerry Lee for the one he has up for sale..... >>> >>> Good luck! >>> >>> Bones >>> ____________________________________________________________ >>> How Cruise Lines Fill All Those Unsold Cabins? >>> (HINT: You will want to book a cruise after you read this...) >>> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/52cf752a33b5e75291951st02vuc > > > -- > I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. > SPAMfighter has removed 9863 of my spam emails to date. > Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len > > Do you have a slow PC? Try a Free scan http://www.spamfighter.com/SLOW-PCfighter?cid=sigen > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2014 10:41:12 -0600 > From: Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi(a)gmail.com> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: outboard motors > Message-ID: > <CA+TbpAXG3iPL1ZnDZEMVsRxykqEgGZcE98qpnma1dxEnB3h9ag(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > So Jerry, > Judging from your email info, the summer conditions here just north of > Corpus Christi for about 80% of the year are 15plus knots of wind with two > to three foot seas. I don't need hull speed but do not want to be swept > away. So accordingly, a 3.5 tohatsu (local dealer) or a nissan 3.5 would be > sufficient. I will not be using the 17' to waterski. > Tom B > > > On Mon, Jan 13, 2014 at 10:21 AM, Hughston, Larry@DGS < > Larry.Hughston(a)dgs.ca.gov> wrote: > >> Jerry, does your Yamaha have F-N-R ?. I have seen some say that Yamahas >> are the only truly "Marine" engines. What have you heard about modern >> Yamaha outboard engines in salt water? I am getting a used boat with two >> Honda 40s at the transom. What should I be aware of in salt water (the >> Delta and SF Bay) environments and keeping my engines clean of salt ? >> >> ---- Larry Hughston (selling my M-15 Old 189) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: montgomery_boats-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com [mailto: >> montgomery_boats-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of jerry >> montgomery >> Sent: Monday, January 13, 2014 8:15 AM >> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats >> Subject: Re: M_Boats: outboard motors >> >> Larry- I have a Yamaha 3 on my Sage and have never run it anywhere near >> wide open. >> >> jerry >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Hughston, Larry@DGS" <Larry.Hughston(a)dgs.ca.gov> >> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" >> <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> >> Sent: Monday, January 13, 2014 8:06 AM >> Subject: Re: M_Boats: outboard motors >> >> >>> I have the Nissan four stroke 3.5 with a long shaft. F-N only. Would >> this >>> be under-powered for a Monty 17? >>> >>> ---Larry Hughston in Sacramento (getting ready to sell my M-15 in good >> but >>> not Bristol condition.) >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: montgomery_boats-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com >>> [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Dave >>> Scobie >>> Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2014 8:36 PM >>> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats >>> Subject: Re: M_Boats: outboard motors >>> >>> Bones is right that the best four horsepower was the Yamaha. The problem >>> is that the current build 4 horsepower is really the 6 horsepower motor >>> ... So you have a motor that weighs 70 or so pounds. >>> >>> I am not aware of any true 4 horsepower motor still being made. All that >> I >>> am aware are really 6 horsepower, heavy, motors. >>> >>> :: Dave Scobie >>> >>> bownez(a)juno.com wrote: >>> >>>> Tom, >>>> >>>> I tried an older 3hp Johnson 2 stroke on my M17 years ago that had >>>> steering via the head and no transmission. It worked OK out on the water, >>>> (as far as an old smelly, noisy, polluting 2 stroke goes) but in the >>>> marina it was a pain. There is no neutral so once it is started, you are >>>> moving. In a tight docking situation, it presented anxious moments. >>>> >>>> I an using a 2001 Yamaha 4hp, 4 stroke with F-N-R and think it's the >>>> premier engine for an M17. I think Dave Scobie mention they are no longer >>>> being made. >>>> >>>> You may wish to contact Jerry Lee for the one he has up for sale..... >>>> >>>> Good luck! >>>> >>>> Bones >>>> ____________________________________________________________ >>>> How Cruise Lines Fill All Those Unsold Cabins? >>>> (HINT: You will want to book a cruise after you read this...) >>>> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/52cf752a33b5e75291951st02vuc >> >> >> -- >> I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. >> SPAMfighter has removed 9863 of my spam emails to date. >> Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len >> >> Do you have a slow PC? Try a Free scan >> http://www.spamfighter.com/SLOW-PCfighter?cid=sigen > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2014 12:54:46 -0500 > From: Steve Lindeman <lindeman.steven(a)gmail.com> > To: "montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com" > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: outboard motors > Message-ID: <466D17D8-BB4A-41FB-9E44-F461EF463EE1(a)gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > I switched to the Lehr 2.5 propane aux power for my M-15 last year. It should have plenty of power for the M-17. I haven't used it much yet but been happy so far. No hassle with winterizing or gas spills. It only has F-N so it requires a 180 turn for reverse. I was concerned about this but it hasn't been a problem. > > Steve Lindeman > M-15 Sadie Lee > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2014 10:06:48 -0800 (PST) > From: W David Scobie <wdscobie(a)yahoo.com> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: outboard motors > Message-ID: > <1389636408.95367.YahooMailBasic(a)web121704.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > i don't recommend a short-shaft outboard on an M17 ... cavitation city! sadly, the LEHR 2.5 is only available in a short shaft. > > glad you like your LEHR Steve. i'm not fully happy with the one Sage Marine purchased - > > poor fit/finish, doesn't run correctly (not running up to full RPM), difficult to start first time (when cold or just after installing fuel bottle 12-15 pulls required), no choke (is needed for a cold start to keep motor running until warmed up), and no fuel cutoff. > > > :: Dave Scobie > > -------------------------------------------- > On Mon, 1/13/14, Steve Lindeman <lindeman.steven(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > I switched to the Lehr 2.5 propane > aux power for my M-15 last year.? It should have plenty > of power for the M-17.? I haven't used it much yet but > been happy so far.? No hassle with winterizing or gas > spills.? It only has F-N so it requires a 180 turn for > reverse.? I was concerned about this but it hasn't been > a problem. > > Steve Lindeman > M-15 Sadie Lee > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2014 10:53:44 -0800 > From: dennis olmstead <dennis.olmstead(a)comcast.net> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: outboard motors > Message-ID: <3C8522E8-F170-4C9D-96EC-62F773DA2727(a)comcast.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > I have the Tohatsu 3.5 hp long shaft 4 stroke (same as Nissan) on a Precision 18. This boat is the same size as a Monty 17 but l little lighter. The 3.5 is plenty of power. > > Dennis Olmstead > Portland, OR > >> On Jan 13, 2014, at 8:06 AM, Hughston, Larry@DGS wrote: >> >> I have the Nissan four stroke 3.5 with a long shaft. F-N only. Would this be under-powered for a Monty 17? >> >> ---Larry Hughston in Sacramento (getting ready to sell my M-15 in good but not Bristol condition.) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: montgomery_boats-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Dave Scobie >> Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2014 8:36 PM >> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats >> Subject: Re: M_Boats: outboard motors >> >> Bones is right that the best four horsepower was the Yamaha. The problem is that the current build 4 horsepower is really the 6 horsepower motor ... So you have a motor that weighs 70 or so pounds. >> >> I am not aware of any true 4 horsepower motor still being made. All that I am aware are really 6 horsepower, heavy, motors. >> >> :: Dave Scobie >> >> bownez(a)juno.com wrote: >> >>> Tom, >>> >>> I tried an older 3hp Johnson 2 stroke on my M17 years ago that had steering via the head and no transmission. It worked OK out on the water, (as far as an old smelly, noisy, polluting 2 stroke goes) but in the marina it was a pain. There is no neutral so once it is started, you are moving. In a tight docking situation, it presented anxious moments. >>> >>> I an using a 2001 Yamaha 4hp, 4 stroke with F-N-R and think it's the premier engine for an M17. I think Dave Scobie mention they are no longer being made. >>> >>> You may wish to contact Jerry Lee for the one he has up for sale..... >>> >>> Good luck! >>> >>> Bones >>> ____________________________________________________________ >>> How Cruise Lines Fill All Those Unsold Cabins? >>> (HINT: You will want to book a cruise after you read this...) >>> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/52cf752a33b5e75291951st02vuc > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2014 11:54:52 -0800 > From: Tom Jenkins <tjenk(a)gte.net> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: outboard motors > Message-ID: <522AD0A7-E263-4BDE-B883-980A4CC01254(a)gte.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Dave, > > I don't know why a choke would be necessary, as their purpose is to enrich the fuel mixture until the engine is warm enough to vaporize all the fuel droplets. Propane is of course already a vapor at boating temperatures (unless you are boating on Mars, which has some other negatives). > > As for the 12-15 pulls, that is equally puzzling from a physics perspective. I wonder if other folks have this problem. Glad you brought it up for discussion. > > Tom > M17 Scintilla > > > >> On Jan 13, 2014, at 10:06 AM, W David Scobie wrote: >> >> i don't recommend a short-shaft outboard on an M17 ... cavitation city! sadly, the LEHR 2.5 is only available in a short shaft. >> >> glad you like your LEHR Steve. i'm not fully happy with the one Sage Marine purchased - >> >> poor fit/finish, doesn't run correctly (not running up to full RPM), difficult to start first time (when cold or just after installing fuel bottle 12-15 pulls required), no choke (is needed for a cold start to keep motor running until warmed up), and no fuel cutoff. >> >> >> :: Dave Scobie >> >> -------------------------------------------- >> On Mon, 1/13/14, Steve Lindeman <lindeman.steven(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> I switched to the Lehr 2.5 propane >> aux power for my M-15 last year. It should have plenty >> of power for the M-17. I haven't used it much yet but >> been happy so far. No hassle with winterizing or gas >> spills. It only has F-N so it requires a 180 turn for >> reverse. I was concerned about this but it hasn't been >> a problem. >> >> Steve Lindeman >> M-15 Sadie Lee > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2014 13:40:11 -0800 (PST) > From: W David Scobie <wdscobie(a)yahoo.com> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: outboard motors > Message-ID: > <1389649211.44750.YahooMailBasic(a)web121703.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Tom (and others following along): > > yeah, the issue is when the motor is cold she will not idle ... you need to advance the throttle a good amount ... and she sputters and gasps, to keep her running until warmed up. barely wants to run if in gear. > > for the pulls it seems that you need have the motor turning over a bunch to get the gas to travel from bottle through the fuel lines. once motor has started she will fire up in one or two pulls after stopping IF you don't unscrew the fuel bottle. > > now ... the instructions for the motor say to unscrew the fuel bottle if you are not going to use the motor again in a 'short period of time'. i take this to meaning, as there is no fuel off valve, that they don't trust the motor not to leak gas (you kill the motor like all other outboards with a red button by the throttle lever). again, there is no 'fuel valve' so when the throttle is in idle some gas will leak? there is no 'off' throttle position. is there an 'interconnect' that only allows the fuel to feed if the motor is turning (either running or when being bulled)? > > that 'unscrew the bottle' thing i don't like. this means that if you sail all day you shouldn't keep the bottle in place. if you need to get the motor running quickly you must screw the bottle into place and pull many times to get fuel to the cylinder. i can fill a Honda 2HP gasoline motor and start it faster than the prior described process. or, just hope the motor doesn't leak gas all day and you don't find you are without fuel when wanting to start the motor. > > > :: Dave Scobie > > > -------------------------------------------- > On Mon, 1/13/14, Tom Jenkins <tjenk(a)gte.net> wrote: > > > Dave, > > I don't know why a choke would be > necessary, as their purpose is to enrich the fuel mixture > until the engine is warm enough to vaporize all the fuel > droplets.? Propane is of course already a vapor at boating > temperatures (unless you are boating on Mars, which has some > other negatives).? > > As for > the 12-15 pulls, that is equally puzzling from a physics > perspective.? I wonder if other folks have this problem.? > Glad you brought it up for discussion. > > Tom > M17 Scintilla > > > > On > Jan 13, 2014, at 10:06 AM, W David Scobie wrote: > >> i don't recommend a > short-shaft outboard on an M17 ... cavitation city!? sadly, > the LEHR 2.5 is only available in a short shaft. >> >> glad you like your > LEHR Steve.? i'm not fully happy with the one Sage > Marine purchased - >> >> poor fit/finish, doesn't run correctly > (not running up to full RPM), difficult to start first time > (when cold or just after installing fuel bottle 12-15 pulls > required), no choke (is needed for a cold start to keep > motor running until warmed up), and no fuel cutoff. >> >> >> :: Dave Scobie > -------------------------------------------- >>> On Mon, 1/13/14, Steve Lindeman <lindeman.steven(a)gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> >> I switched to the Lehr 2.5 propane >> aux power for my M-15 last year.? It > should have plenty >> of power for the > M-17.? I haven't used it much yet but >> been happy so far.? No hassle with > winterizing or gas >> spills.? It only > has F-N so it requires a 180 turn for > reverse.? I was concerned about this but it hasn't > been >> a problem. > >> Steve Lindeman > M-15 Sadie Lee > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2014 17:40:39 -0600 > From: Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi(a)gmail.com> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: outboard motors > Message-ID: > <CA+TbpAUixA8Dq9RAqUby0zOUJ2iBzW=EZc9nhxOjvGahQ_1eAA(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Following along, was interested to hear about the 3.5 on the Precision 18. > I am leaning in that direction. Tohatsu's (being the first outboards ever > produced) have a pretty good reputation for reliability. > I have always been concerned about propane in a boat since it is heavier > than air the fumes could find their way below and then with a little > spark.......... > This has been a great string for information. > Thanks to all who have contributed. > Tom B > > >> On Mon, Jan 13, 2014 at 3:40 PM, W David Scobie <wdscobie(a)yahoo.com> wrote: >> >> Tom (and others following along): >> >> yeah, the issue is when the motor is cold she will not idle ... you need >> to advance the throttle a good amount ... and she sputters and gasps, to >> keep her running until warmed up. barely wants to run if in gear. >> >> for the pulls it seems that you need have the motor turning over a bunch >> to get the gas to travel from bottle through the fuel lines. once motor >> has started she will fire up in one or two pulls after stopping IF you >> don't unscrew the fuel bottle. >> >> now ... the instructions for the motor say to unscrew the fuel bottle if >> you are not going to use the motor again in a 'short period of time'. i >> take this to meaning, as there is no fuel off valve, that they don't trust >> the motor not to leak gas (you kill the motor like all other outboards with >> a red button by the throttle lever). again, there is no 'fuel valve' so >> when the throttle is in idle some gas will leak? there is no 'off' >> throttle position. is there an 'interconnect' that only allows the fuel to >> feed if the motor is turning (either running or when being bulled)? >> >> that 'unscrew the bottle' thing i don't like. this means that if you sail >> all day you shouldn't keep the bottle in place. if you need to get the >> motor running quickly you must screw the bottle into place and pull many >> times to get fuel to the cylinder. i can fill a Honda 2HP gasoline motor >> and start it faster than the prior described process. or, just hope the >> motor doesn't leak gas all day and you don't find you are without fuel when >> wanting to start the motor. >> >> >> :: Dave Scobie >> >> >> -------------------------------------------- >> On Mon, 1/13/14, Tom Jenkins <tjenk(a)gte.net> wrote: >> >> >> Dave, >> >> I don't know why a choke would be >> necessary, as their purpose is to enrich the fuel mixture >> until the engine is warm enough to vaporize all the fuel >> droplets. Propane is of course already a vapor at boating >> temperatures (unless you are boating on Mars, which has some >> other negatives). >> >> As for >> the 12-15 pulls, that is equally puzzling from a physics >> perspective. I wonder if other folks have this problem. >> Glad you brought it up for discussion. >> >> Tom >> M17 Scintilla >> >> >> >> On >> Jan 13, 2014, at 10:06 AM, W David Scobie wrote: >> >>> i don't recommend a >> short-shaft outboard on an M17 ... cavitation city! sadly, >> the LEHR 2.5 is only available in a short shaft. >>> >>> glad you like your >> LEHR Steve. i'm not fully happy with the one Sage >> Marine purchased - >>> >>> poor fit/finish, doesn't run correctly >> (not running up to full RPM), difficult to start first time >> (when cold or just after installing fuel bottle 12-15 pulls >> required), no choke (is needed for a cold start to keep >> motor running until warmed up), and no fuel cutoff. >>> >>> >>> :: Dave Scobie >> -------------------------------------------- >>>> On Mon, 1/13/14, Steve Lindeman <lindeman.steven(a)gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> I switched to the Lehr 2.5 propane >>> aux power for my M-15 last year. It >> should have plenty >>> of power for the >> M-17. I haven't used it much yet but >>> been happy so far. No hassle with >> winterizing or gas >>> spills. It only >> has F-N so it requires a 180 turn for >> reverse. I was concerned about this but it hasn't >> been >>> a problem. >> >>> Steve Lindeman >> M-15 Sadie Lee >> > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2014 15:56:30 -0800 (PST) > From: W David Scobie <wdscobie(a)yahoo.com> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: outboard motors > Message-ID: > <1389657390.23890.YahooMailBasic(a)web121706.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > i view gasoline to be as dangerous as propane (or any heavier than air gas/fuel). > > remember folks - a stock 1983 or newer M17's aft locker has no vapor barrier to the cabin ... don't store your fuel (gas, propane, butane, etc) in the aft locker unless you modify the boat (i sealed off my M17's locker and installed proper airflow vents). > > > :: Dave Scobie > -------------------------------------------- > On Mon, 1/13/14, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > Following along, was > interested to hear about the 3.5 on the Precision 18. > I am leaning in that direction. Tohatsu's > (being the first outboards ever > produced) > have a pretty good reputation for reliability. > I have always been concerned about propane in a > boat since it is heavier > than air the fumes > could find their way below and then with a little > spark.......... > This has been a > great string for information. > Thanks to all > who have contributed. > Tom B > > > On Mon, Jan 13, 2014 at > 3:40 PM, W David Scobie <wdscobie(a)yahoo.com> > wrote: > >> Tom (and others > following along): > yeah, the issue is when the motor is cold she will not idle > ... you need >> to advance the throttle a > good amount ... and she sputters and gasps, to >> keep her running until warmed up.? barely > wants to run if in gear. >> >> for the pulls it seems that you need have > the motor turning over a bunch >> to get > the gas to travel from bottle through the fuel lines.? once > motor >> has started she will fire up in > one or two pulls after stopping IF you > don't unscrew the fuel bottle. >> >> now ... the instructions for the motor say > to unscrew the fuel bottle if >> you are > not going to use the motor again in a 'short period of > time'.? i >> take this to meaning, as > there is no fuel off valve, that they don't trust >> the motor not to leak gas (you kill the > motor like all other outboards with >> a > red button by the throttle lever).? again, there is no > 'fuel valve' so >> when the > throttle is in idle some gas will leak?? there is no > 'off' >> throttle position. is > there an 'interconnect' that only allows the fuel > to >> feed if the motor is turning (either > running or when being bulled)? >> >> that 'unscrew the bottle' thing i > don't like.? this means that if you sail >> all day you shouldn't keep the bottle > in place.? if you need to get the > motor running quickly you must screw the bottle into place > and pull many >> times to get fuel to the > cylinder.? i can fill a Honda 2HP gasoline motor >> and start it faster than the prior > described process.? or, just hope the > motor doesn't leak gas all day and you don't find > you are without fuel when >> wanting to > start the motor. >> >> >> :: Dave Scobie > -------------------------------------------- >>> On Mon, 1/13/14, Tom Jenkins <tjenk(a)gte.net> >> wrote: >> >> >> ? Dave, >> >> ? I don't know why a choke would be >> ? necessary, as their purpose is to enrich > the fuel mixture >> ? until the engine is > warm enough to vaporize all the fuel >> ? > droplets.? Propane is of course already a vapor at > boating >> ? temperatures (unless you are > boating on Mars, which has some >> ? other > negatives). >> >> ? As > for >> ? the 12-15 pulls, that is equally > puzzling from a physics >> ? > perspective.? I wonder if other folks have this problem. >> ? Glad you brought it up for > discussion. >> >> ? > Tom >> ? M17 Scintilla >> >> >> >> ? On >> ? Jan 13, 2014, at 10:06 AM, W David > Scobie wrote: >> >> ? >> i don't recommend a >> ? > short-shaft outboard on an M17 ... cavitation city!? > sadly, >> ? the LEHR 2.5 is only available > in a short shaft. >> ? > >> ? > glad you like your >> ? LEHR Steve.? i'm not fully happy > with the one Sage >> ? Marine purchased > - >> ? > >> ? > > poor fit/finish, doesn't run correctly >> ? (not running up to full RPM), difficult > to start first time >> ? (when cold or > just after installing fuel bottle 12-15 pulls >> ? required), no choke (is needed for a > cold start to keep >> ? motor running > until warmed up), and no fuel cutoff. >> ? >> >> ? > >> ? > > :: Dave Scobie >> ? > >> ? > >> ? > -------------------------------------------- >> ? > On Mon, 1/13/14, Steve Lindeman > <lindeman.steven(a)gmail.com> >> ? wrote: >> ? > >> ? > >> ? > I > switched to the Lehr 2.5 propane >> ? > > aux power for my M-15 last year.? It >> ? > should have plenty >> ? > of power for > the >> ? M-17.? I haven't used it > much yet but >> ? > been happy so > far.? No hassle with >> ? winterizing or > gas >> ? > spills.? It only >> ? has F-N so it requires a 180 turn for >> ? > >> ? reverse.? I > was concerned about this but it hasn't >> ? been >> ? > a > problem. >> ? > >> >> ? > Steve Lindeman >> ? > >> ? M-15 Sadie > Lee >> ? > >> ? >> >> >> ? > >> ? > >> ? > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2014 16:45:22 -0800 > From: Tom Smith <openboatt(a)gmail.com> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: outboard motors > Message-ID: > <CA+3pONLbMderaqRCxzKON7EUgbeQBPYXziL6ygQ96fv-JFzHQw(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > I had to walk out to my shop to look at my M17 after reading your caution, > Dave, because I was nearly positive there is no vapor access from the aft > locker to the interior of the boat. There is not, plus there are two large > access holes from the locker through the transom--probably 2"-- either side > of the rudder, so there's pretty good circulation. I can't speak for other > late model jerry-built boats, nor can I speak for those Bob is building. > > So at least for my '92 M17, I have no qualms about keeping an outboard fuel > supply there, though I'd certainly hesitate to store propane anywhere. > > Regarding OB info, Thomas, search the msog archives--I'd bet there are > hundreds, perhaps thousands, of posts on motors there. t > > > > > > > t _/\_ > > >> On Mon, Jan 13, 2014 at 3:56 PM, W David Scobie <wdscobie(a)yahoo.com> wrote: >> >> i view gasoline to be as dangerous as propane (or any heavier than air >> gas/fuel). >> >> remember folks - a stock 1983 or newer M17's aft locker has no vapor >> barrier to the cabin ... don't store your fuel (gas, propane, butane, etc) >> in the aft locker unless you modify the boat (i sealed off my M17's locker >> and installed proper airflow vents). >> >> >> :: Dave Scobie >> -------------------------------------------- >> On Mon, 1/13/14, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> Following along, was >> interested to hear about the 3.5 on the Precision 18. >> I am leaning in that direction. Tohatsu's >> (being the first outboards ever >> produced) >> have a pretty good reputation for reliability. >> I have always been concerned about propane in a >> boat since it is heavier >> than air the fumes >> could find their way below and then with a little >> spark.......... >> This has been a >> great string for information. >> Thanks to all >> who have contributed. >> Tom B >> >> >> On Mon, Jan 13, 2014 at >> 3:40 PM, W David Scobie <wdscobie(a)yahoo.com> >> wrote: >> >>> Tom (and others >> following along): >> yeah, the issue is when the motor is cold she will not idle >> ... you need >>> to advance the throttle a >> good amount ... and she sputters and gasps, to >>> keep her running until warmed up. barely >> wants to run if in gear. >>> >>> for the pulls it seems that you need have >> the motor turning over a bunch >>> to get >> the gas to travel from bottle through the fuel lines. once >> motor >>> has started she will fire up in >> one or two pulls after stopping IF you >> don't unscrew the fuel bottle. >>> >>> now ... the instructions for the motor say >> to unscrew the fuel bottle if >>> you are >> not going to use the motor again in a 'short period of >> time'. i >>> take this to meaning, as >> there is no fuel off valve, that they don't trust >>> the motor not to leak gas (you kill the >> motor like all other outboards with >>> a >> red button by the throttle lever). again, there is no >> 'fuel valve' so >>> when the >> throttle is in idle some gas will leak? there is no >> 'off' >>> throttle position. is >> there an 'interconnect' that only allows the fuel >> to >>> feed if the motor is turning (either >> running or when being bulled)? >>> >>> that 'unscrew the bottle' thing i >> don't like. this means that if you sail >>> all day you shouldn't keep the bottle >> in place. if you need to get the >> motor running quickly you must screw the bottle into place >> and pull many >>> times to get fuel to the >> cylinder. i can fill a Honda 2HP gasoline motor >>> and start it faster than the prior >> described process. or, just hope the >> motor doesn't leak gas all day and you don't find >> you are without fuel when >>> wanting to >> start the motor. >>> >>> >>> :: Dave Scobie >> -------------------------------------------- >>>> On Mon, 1/13/14, Tom Jenkins <tjenk(a)gte.net> >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> Dave, >>> >>> I don't know why a choke would be >>> necessary, as their purpose is to enrich >> the fuel mixture >>> until the engine is >> warm enough to vaporize all the fuel >> droplets. Propane is of course already a vapor at >> boating >>> temperatures (unless you are >> boating on Mars, which has some >>> other >> negatives). >>> >>> As >> for >>> the 12-15 pulls, that is equally >> puzzling from a physics >> perspective. I wonder if other folks have this problem. >>> Glad you brought it up for >> discussion. >> Tom >>> M17 Scintilla >>> >>> >>> >>> On >>> Jan 13, 2014, at 10:06 AM, W David >> Scobie wrote: >>> >>> >>> i don't recommend a >> short-shaft outboard on an M17 ... cavitation city! >> sadly, >>> the LEHR 2.5 is only available >> in a short shaft. >>>> >>>> glad you like your >>> LEHR Steve. i'm not fully happy >> with the one Sage >>> Marine purchased >> - >> poor fit/finish, doesn't run correctly >>> (not running up to full RPM), difficult >> to start first time >>> (when cold or >> just after installing fuel bottle 12-15 pulls >>> required), no choke (is needed for a >> cold start to keep >>> motor running >> until warmed up), and no fuel cutoff. >>> >>> >> :: Dave Scobie >> -------------------------------------------- >>>> On Mon, 1/13/14, Steve Lindeman >> <lindeman.steven(a)gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> I >> switched to the Lehr 2.5 propane >> aux power for my M-15 last year. It >> should have plenty >>>> of power for >> the >>> M-17. I haven't used it >> much yet but >>>> been happy so >> far. No hassle with >>> winterizing or >> gas >>>> spills. It only >>> has F-N so it requires a 180 turn for >>> reverse. I >> was concerned about this but it hasn't >>> been >>>> a >> problem. >>> >>>> Steve Lindeman >>> M-15 Sadie >> Lee >>> >>> >>> > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 12 > Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2014 17:14:59 -0800 (PST) > From: W David Scobie <wdscobie(a)yahoo.com> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: outboard motors > Message-ID: > <1389662099.46996.YahooMailBasic(a)web121706.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Tom: > > just to confirm - > > when looking into the locker, without looking up, the locker does seem to be 'sealed'. it is the 'upper/top' locations outlined below that are the concern. > > be sure to feel along the top of the aft end of the locker. this is likely open to the space between the aft cockpit wall and the transom. if this gap isn't filled gas can get into the cabin. > > also look along the aft-top of the locker port and starboard. the locker walls, or the 'pan that makes up the locker' are not likely full height, are not taped/glassed to the 'top' of the aft locker, and open to the aft ends of the port and starboard lockers. i was able to reach over this partial wall and unbolt my M17's motor mount. > > there is also a gap between the locker's wall and curved space where the locker lid sets. this area is very small, but not sealed. i filled this area with thickened epoxy and then covered with mat & glass. > > see pictures - > > http://m17-375.webs.com/apps/blog/show/prev?from_id=6848827 > > (look at photos following the heading 'Pictures of the completed fiberglass work:' (about 1/2 through the post). > > i believe i have more pictures of the project that show the locations i sealed. > > again, the bottom of the locker is sealed (it must be or when water enters the locker the water drains into the cabin). the _top_ of the locker isn't sealed. > > this isn't to say your boat's locker isn't sealed .. but the Jerry's SOP didn't include making the aft locker 'gas tight' to the cabin. > > > :: Dave Scobie > > > -------------------------------------------- > On Mon, 1/13/14, Tom Smith <openboatt(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > I had to walk out to my > shop to look at my M17 after reading your caution, > Dave, because I was nearly positive there is no > vapor access from the aft > locker to the > interior of the boat.? There is not, plus there are two > large > access holes from the locker through > the transom--probably 2"-- either side > of the rudder, so there's pretty good > circulation.? I can't speak for other > late model jerry-built boats, nor can I speak > for those Bob is building. > > So at least for my '92 M17, I have no > qualms about keeping an outboard fuel > supply > there, though I'd certainly hesitate to store propane > anywhere. > > Regarding OB > info, Thomas, search the msog archives--I'd bet there > are > hundreds, perhaps thousands, of posts on > motors there.? t > > > > > > > t? _/\_ > > > On Mon, Jan 13, 2014 at 3:56 PM, W David Scobie > <wdscobie(a)yahoo.com> > wrote: > >> i view gasoline > to be as dangerous as propane (or any heavier than air >> gas/fuel). >> >> remember folks - a stock 1983 or newer > M17's aft locker has no vapor > barrier to the cabin ... don't store your fuel (gas, > propane, butane, etc) >> in the aft locker > unless you modify the boat (i sealed off my M17's > locker >> and installed proper airflow > vents). >> >> >> :: Dave Scobie > -------------------------------------------- >>> On Mon, 1/13/14, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi(a)gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> >> ? Following along, was >> ? interested to hear about the 3.5 on the > Precision 18. >> ? I am leaning in that > direction. Tohatsu's >> ? (being the > first outboards ever >> ? produced) >> ? have a pretty good reputation for > reliability. >> ? I have always been > concerned about propane in a >> ? boat > since it is heavier >> ? than air the > fumes >> ? could find their way below and > then with a little >> ? spark.......... >> ? This has been a >> ? > great string for information. >> ? Thanks > to all >> ? who have contributed. >> ? Tom B >> >> >> ? On Mon, Jan 13, > 2014 at >> ? 3:40 PM, W David Scobie > <wdscobie(a)yahoo.com> >> ? wrote: >> >> ? > Tom (and others >> ? following along): >> ? >> >> ? > >> ? > yeah, the issue is when the motor is cold she will not > idle >> ? ... you need >> ? > to advance the throttle a >> ? good amount ... and she sputters and > gasps, to >> ? > keep her running until > warmed up.? barely >> ? wants to run if > in gear. >> ? > >> ? >> for the pulls it seems that you need have >> ? the motor turning over a bunch >> ? > to get >> ? the > gas to travel from bottle through the fuel lines.? once >> ? motor >> ? > has > started she will fire up in >> ? one or > two pulls after stopping IF you >> ? >> >> ? don't unscrew the fuel > bottle. >> ? > >> ? >> now ... the instructions for the motor say >> ? to unscrew the fuel bottle if >> ? > you are >> ? not > going to use the motor again in a 'short period of >> ? time'.? i >> ? >> take this to meaning, as >> ? there > is no fuel off valve, that they don't trust >> ? > the motor not to leak gas (you kill > the >> ? motor like all other outboards > with >> ? > a >> ? > red button by the throttle lever).? again, there is no >> ? 'fuel valve' so >> ? > when the >> ? > throttle is in idle some gas will leak?? there is no >> ? 'off' >> ? >> throttle position. is >> ? there an > 'interconnect' that only allows the fuel >> ? to >> ? > feed if > the motor is turning (either >> ? running > or when being bulled)? >> ? > >> ? > that 'unscrew the bottle' > thing i >> ? don't like.? this means > that if you sail >> ? > all day you > shouldn't keep the bottle >> ? in > place.? if you need to get the >> ? >> >> ? motor running quickly you must > screw the bottle into place >> ? and pull > many >> ? > times to get fuel to the >> ? cylinder.? i can fill a Honda 2HP > gasoline motor >> ? > and start it > faster than the prior >> ? described > process.? or, just hope the >> ? > >> ? motor doesn't leak gas all day and > you don't find >> ? you are without > fuel when >> ? > wanting to >> ? start the motor. >> ? >> >> ? > >> ? > > :: Dave Scobie >> ? > >> ? > >> ? > >> ? > -------------------------------------------- >> ? > On Mon, 1/13/14, Tom Jenkins <tjenk(a)gte.net> >> ? wrote: >> ? > >> ? > >> ? >? > Dave, >> ? > >> ? >> ? I don't know why a choke would be >> ? >? necessary, as their purpose is to > enrich >> ? the fuel mixture >> ? >? until the engine is >> ? warm enough to vaporize all the fuel >> ? > >> ? droplets.? > Propane is of course already a vapor at >> ? boating >> ? >? > temperatures (unless you are >> ? boating > on Mars, which has some >> ? >? > other >> ? negatives). >> ? > >> ? >? As >> ? for >> ? >? the > 12-15 pulls, that is equally >> ? puzzling > from a physics >> ? > >> ? perspective.? I wonder if other folks > have this problem. >> ? >? Glad you > brought it up for >> ? discussion. >> ? > >> ? > >> ? Tom >> ? >? M17 > Scintilla >> ? > >> ? >> >> ? > >> ? >> ? On >> ? >? Jan 13, 2014, at > 10:06 AM, W David >> ? Scobie wrote: >> ? > >> ? > >> ? > i don't recommend a >> ? > >> ? short-shaft > outboard on an M17 ... cavitation city! >> ? sadly, >> ? >? the > LEHR 2.5 is only available >> ? in a short > shaft. >> ? >? > >> ? >? > glad you like your >> ? >? LEHR Steve.? i'm not fully > happy >> ? with the one Sage >> ? >? Marine purchased >> ? - >> ? >? > >> ? >? > >> ? poor > fit/finish, doesn't run correctly >> ? >> ? (not running up to full RPM), difficult >> ? to start first time >> ? >? (when cold or >> ? just after installing fuel bottle 12-15 > pulls >> ? >? required), no choke (is > needed for a >> ? cold start to keep >> ? >? motor running >> ? until warmed up), and no fuel cutoff. >> ? > >> ? > >> ? >? > >> ? >> ? > >> ? :: Dave Scobie >> ? >? > >> ? >> ? > >> ? > >> ? > -------------------------------------------- >> ? >? > On Mon, 1/13/14, Steve > Lindeman >> ? <lindeman.steven(a)gmail.com> >> ? >? wrote: >> ? >> ? > >> ? >? > >> ? >? > I >> ? > switched to the Lehr 2.5 propane >> ? >> ? > >> ? aux power for my M-15 > last year.? It >> ? > >> ? should have plenty >> ? >? > of power for >> ? the >> ? >? > M-17.? I haven't used it >> ? much > yet but >> ? >? > been happy so >> ? far.? No hassle with >> ? >? winterizing or >> ? gas >> ? >? > > spills.? It only >> ? >? has F-N so > it requires a 180 turn for >> ? >? >> >> ? >? reverse.? I >> ? was concerned about this but it > hasn't >> ? >? been >> ? >? > a >> ? > problem. >> ? >? > >> ? > >> ? >? > > Steve Lindeman >> ? >? > >> ? >? M-15 Sadie >> ? > Lee >> ? >? > >> ? > >> ? > >> ? > >> ? >? >> >> ? >? > >> ? >? > >> ? >> >> ? > >> ? >> >> ? > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > montgomery_boats mailing list > montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! > > > End of montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 131, Issue 4 > ************************************************

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Re: M_Boats: FW: M15 Main Sal
by SALGLESSER＠aol.com 15 Feb '14

15 Feb '14

Hi George, We converted to a loose footed main on our M15 and prefer it. sal In a message dated 2/13/2014 4:20:21 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, griemmolo2(a)gmail.com writes: Wrinkle Boat Mates I have not heard a word back since I asked you all to opine on a Loose Footed Main vs. a Std. Main. Am I not getting thru at this address? George Merry Helen II M15 #602 _____ From: George R. Iemmolo [mailto:griemmolo2@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2014 11:44 AM To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: M15 Main Sal I have received the Main Sail I purchased from Daniel Rice/Kestrel #208 and am ready to send it to Sailcare for reconditioning by the LaMauney Process. They have a Sail Loft and have quoted me a price of $67 to convert it to a Lose Footed Main. I just Day sail and do not Race thou anytime 2 sailboats are on the same waters it's a race:-). I was wondering if it was worth it to make the conversion. Any input is appreciated I know the current sails are made Lose footed. George Merry Helen II M15 #602

5 6

FW: M15 Main Sal
by George R. Iemmolo 15 Feb '14

15 Feb '14

Wrinkle Boat Mates I have not heard a word back since I asked you all to opine on a Loose Footed Main vs. a Std. Main. Am I not getting thru at this address? George Merry Helen II M15 #602 _____ From: George R. Iemmolo [mailto:griemmolo2@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2014 11:44 AM To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: M15 Main Sal I have received the Main Sail I purchased from Daniel Rice/Kestrel #208 and am ready to send it to Sailcare for reconditioning by the LaMauney Process. They have a Sail Loft and have quoted me a price of $67 to convert it to a Lose Footed Main. I just Day sail and do not Race thou anytime 2 sailboats are on the same waters it's a race:-). I was wondering if it was worth it to make the conversion. Any input is appreciated I know the current sails are made Lose footed. George Merry Helen II M15 #602

4 5

Re: M_Boats: FW: M15 Main Sal
by GILASAILR＠aol.com 14 Feb '14

14 Feb '14

I prefer a loose footed mainsail. In a message dated 2/13/2014 4:20:21 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, griemmolo2(a)gmail.com writes: Wrinkle Boat Mates I have not heard a word back since I asked you all to opine on a Loose Footed Main vs. a Std. Main. Am I not getting thru at this address? George Merry Helen II M15 #602 _____ From: George R. Iemmolo [mailto:griemmolo2@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2014 11:44 AM To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: M15 Main Sal I have received the Main Sail I purchased from Daniel Rice/Kestrel #208 and am ready to send it to Sailcare for reconditioning by the LaMauney Process. They have a Sail Loft and have quoted me a price of $67 to convert it to a Lose Footed Main. I just Day sail and do not Race thou anytime 2 sailboats are on the same waters it's a race:-). I was wondering if it was worth it to make the conversion. Any input is appreciated I know the current sails are made Lose footed. George Merry Helen II M15 #602

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Mexico?
by David Grah 13 Feb '14

13 Feb '14

I am planning to go to Bahia de Los Angeles the "week" of 5 through 13 October 2014. David Grah Bishop California Montgomery 15 -Sky Message: 1 Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2014 08:52:32 -0800 From: "jerry montgomery" <jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Mexico? Message-ID: <C227A15275DE4B9084B8254F345703FB@jerryws10> Content-Type: text/plain; format="flowed"; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type="original" Because of the great race in Guaymas/San Carlos in Oct, I'm in favor of going then, either the race and/or the cruise. Maybe I'll plan on it and anyone else who wants to go will be more than welcome. jerry

2 1

Dyneema
by Henry Rodriguez 13 Feb '14

13 Feb '14

- *Messages sorted by:* [ date ]<http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/private/montgomery_boats/2014-F…> [ thread ]<http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/private/montgomery_boats/2014-F…> [ subject ]<http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/private/montgomery_boats/2014-F…> [ author ]<http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/private/montgomery_boats/2014-F…> ------------------------------ *Just heard of "dyneema". Sounds good. Is it core on core? How is it made up into an eye or spliced onto a fitting? I have heard that being an engineered fiber it is susceptible to chafe and subsequent loss of strength.* Hi Tom, Dyneema is really cool stuff. It has the same breaking strength as wire of the same diameter (2200 lb for 1/8") but is so light it floats. Like wire, it has practically no stretch. It is being used to replace wire hawsers on commercial fishing boats and tug boats. I don't think chafe is a particular concern as it is also used to replace wire cable in commercial logging operations with big machines dragging huge logs over the ground. Google "dyneema" and "Amsteel" for some amazing videos about its applications. Dyneema is a brand name of the fiber, Amsteel is a brand name for dyneema rope made by Samson. It is an uncored hollow single braid that is the easiest of all lines to splice. Splices are almost a necessity since it is so slippery it does not hold knots well. I splice a thimble into both ends of the stays but for other uses I make a longer splice that can be "luggage tagged" to any fitting. Go to the Samson web site for splicing information and lots of other cool information. I have been using Amsteel Blue (it comes in several different colors despite its name) for my backstay, running backstays, outhaul, vang, jib and staysail tack downhauls, etc. on Chiquita for several years with no problems. These are all "dynamic" lines that are easily adjusted under way. Because of a characteristic called "creep" regular dyneema is not recommended for "static" lines such as the shrouds and forestays on a boat. There is a version (Dynex Dux) specifically made for those applications but it is much more expensive. Reddenmarine.com has great prices on Dyneema Blue. -- Henry https://picasaweb.google.com/heinzir

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M15 Main Sal
by George R. Iemmolo 12 Feb '14

12 Feb '14

I have received the Main Sail I purchased from Daniel Rice/Kestrel #208 and am ready to send it to Sailcare for reconditioning by the LaMauney Process. They have a Sail Loft and have quoted me a price of $67 to convert it to a Lose Footed Main. I just Day sail and do not Race thou anytime 2 sailboats are on the same waters it's a race:-). I was wondering if it was worth it to make the conversion. Any input is appreciated I know the current sails are made Lose footed. George Merry Helen II M15 #602

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