December 2014 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

Main companionway hatch
by Thomas Buzzi 09 Dec '14

09 Dec '14

I am open for suggestions on where to obtain a hatch for a Montgomery 17. A very good friend and fellow Montgomery 17 renovator has had his main companionway hatch stolen. His boat dates from around 1974. I am not sure what use it could be to anyone else. We searched the vacant lots around his work area thinking some prankster was having a creative moment but to no avail. Any information would be appreciated. Fair winds, Tom B, Mont. 17 #258, 77'

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Fog sailing (motoring)
by Conbert Benneck 08 Dec '14

08 Dec '14

Hi Howard, When the fog gets that thick then your solution is the only proper one. Anchor; ring your bell to let others know that you are anchored, that still might be trying to find their way home, and wait for the fog to lift. Sailing back from Block Island years ago, four boats of our Goose Island Cruising (Boozing and Snoozing) Club (GICC) got into a pea-souper as we headed for the Watch Hill, RI entrance buoy. You had to find that, because if you didn't, there was a long hungry reef waiting for the unwary that stretched west from the Watch Hill buoy to Fishers Island. Visibility was down to about 1 boat length. We had stowed our sails and were all now under power, talking to each other via VHF radio. Dozens of boats were milling around wondering what to do.... One of our group heard the President of Pratt & Whitney Aircraft, talking to a friend. He had a large power boat, and was also approaching the Watch Hill entrance buoy. Our member gave him a call (our sailing gang were P&WA Engineering managers). Since his powerboat had radar, he asked us to do a 360 turn so that he could see us; and having found us on his radar, a few moments later he appear out of the fog. We tucked in behind him, like ducklings following their mother, and he took us all the way back to Noank, CT and our Marina at the entrance to the Mystic River. At the Marina entrance the fog was still so dense that we could barely make out the docks from 50 feet away, but we were home. So for years, our joke went, if all else fails during a heavy fog, call the President of Pratt & Whitney Aircraft, who has radar, and get him to act as Pilot to get home safely. It's nice when you have friends like that, who can help! Connie

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Re: M_Boats: GPS info
by SALGLESSER＠aol.com 08 Dec '14

08 Dec '14

I agree with Connie. "Longitude" is a great read for any sailor. sal In a message dated 12/4/2014 2:11:34 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, chbenneck(a)gmail.com writes: On 12/4/2014 2:01 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote: Tom I also can highly recommend the Dava Sobel book on "Longitude". She describes the basic problem that mariners had determining longitude, and then tells the story of how the British Government put up a prize for anyone who could make an accurate chronometer. The Government was pressured to do this because of all the naval and merchant ships that were lost as a result of not having an accurate way to establish longitude reliably. If you divide the earth's circumference of 360 degrees by 24 hours, your answer shows you that the earth rotates 15 degrees per hour. Wherever you may be on the surface of the earth, the sun rises, climbs to its meridian at what navigators call Local Apparent Noon (LAN) at your location, and then starts descending again. If you had an accurate time piece set to Greenwich Mean Time, and the time pieces' error rate was constant, then knowing that, and the time of your LAN it is a very simple math problem to determine how far West or East of Greenwich you are located at that specific moment If you measure the height of the sun at that point; and note the exact time of the observation, in seconds; minutes; and hours, you can now establish your longitudinal position (dependent on the accuracy of your measurements). You have to do it in that order since each second counts in the calculation, and accuracy of time of observation is critical. Seconds change rapidly, minutes only 60 seconds later.... Example: New York City is roughly at 75 degrees W Longitude from 0 degree Greenwich, England. Divide 75 degrees by 15 (the degrees in an hour) and you will see that New York's geographical position is 5 hours West of Greenwich. This goes on until you reach the 180th degree West, called the International Date Line, which is located in the Pacific Ocean. When you reach the International Date Line heading West from the USA, it is Thursday; but once you have crossed the Date Line it becomes Friday, and the beginning of a new day for the 180 degree East of Greenwich area of the world. ------------------------------- Last thought: If a salt water wave or spray hits my sextant I can just rinse it off with fresh water and dry it with a towel and it keeps working (with a drop of oil in the mechanism once in awhile) Gin also will do the job, but I don't think my rinse solutions will work for electronics.... They are nice toys and give you pretty pictures but don't trust your life or the safety of your boat to them. They are only a secondary source of information. Learn to do dead reckoning navigation the classical way, and you will always be safe. Connie > thanks to all that took the time to share their ideas about this. I have a > pretty good idea of what course to take. I also have a lead on a what > sounds like a very interesting book. > Fair winds, > Tom B, Mont 17 #258 >

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Re: M_Boats: GPS info
by tjenk＠gte.net 07 Dec '14

07 Dec '14

I sailed to Hawaii in a Nor Sea 27, using an old (but well-tested) Magellan GPS and a cheap GPS unit as backup (never removed from the box, it turns out). The secret weapons were a wind vane so I could doze off on night watch for ships, and a satellite radio so I could call home and report my position on occasion. I would not trust an electronic chart for such a venture, but I might be old-fashioned. There is some risk in an ocean crossing regardless of how much stuff you take along, but almost all of it stems from inability to cope with nasty surprises contributed by the ocean. The wind blows like stink and kicks up impressive beam swells the first few days out from the west coast, and intense squalls are frequent in the trades later on, so one should be sure that he/she and the boat have been through similar conditions on many previous occasions. Dec 4, 2014 02:48:00 PM, montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com wrote: =========================================== I purchased my M17 from a gent who set off from San Francisco towards Hawaii. His ONLY means of navigation was one hand held GPS unit. Not sure if he had any paper charts, but he did not have a sextant, so if the GPS gave out, was lost overboard or otherwise put out of commission, not sure how he was going to find Hawaii. That is a big place to wander around looking for such a tiny spec of land. Lucky for him he turned back after 4 or 5 days, so it never became an issue. Anyway, yet another solution to one GPS and a sextant is several cheap GPS units. Two or three of them combined are less expensive than a sextant, but do the same thing. Leave the spares and fresh batteries safely stashed in the box until you need them. BTW, I use an older Garmin GPS chart plotter with depth finder built in. So in addition to knowing where I am, I know how much water is beneath me. Mine also has the nifty feature of tide tables built in. On tidal waters, that is more handy than you might think. But like the others, I still don't venture far on unfamiliar waters without paper charts. I pay as much attention to them as the GPS. On Dec 4, 2014, at 3:37 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote: > Hi Connie, > Thanks for the added info. I finally get the idea of how a chronometer > works using GMT. If your onboard timepiece associates hours with 15 degrees > west long then wherever you are at noon GMT is...... humm, lost it. Oh, you > have to measure the height of the sun at your present position to tell you > the degree long. to plot on your chart. Somehow. > Too bad we don't live closer. I have always wanted to learn how to use a > sextant but reading the information just never sunk in. Oh well, I can get > a hand bearing compass and some local charts. Sounds like fun and a good > feeling to know where I am even if the gps quits. > Tom B > > On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 3:11 PM, Conbert Benneck wrote: > >> On 12/4/2014 2:01 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote: >> >> Tom >> >> I also can highly recommend the Dava Sobel book on "Longitude". >> >> She describes the basic problem that mariners had determining longitude, >> and then tells the story of how the British Government put up a prize for >> anyone who could make an accurate chronometer. The Government was pressured >> to do this because of all the naval and merchant ships that were lost as a >> result of not having an accurate way to establish longitude reliably. >> >> If you divide the earth's circumference of 360 degrees by 24 hours, your >> answer shows you that the earth rotates 15 degrees per hour. >> >> Wherever you may be on the surface of the earth, the sun rises, climbs to >> its meridian at what navigators call Local Apparent Noon (LAN) at your >> location, and then starts descending again. >> >> If you had an accurate time piece set to Greenwich Mean Time, and the time >> pieces' error rate was constant, then knowing that, and the time of your >> LAN it is a very simple math problem to determine how far West or East of >> Greenwich you are located at that specific moment >> >> If you measure the height of the sun at that point; and note the exact >> time of the observation, in seconds; minutes; and hours, you can now >> establish your longitudinal position (dependent on the accuracy of your >> measurements). You have to do it in that order since each second counts in >> the calculation, and accuracy of time of observation is critical. Seconds >> change rapidly, minutes only 60 seconds later.... >> >> Example: New York City is roughly at 75 degrees W Longitude from 0 degree >> Greenwich, England. Divide 75 degrees by 15 (the degrees in an hour) and >> you will see that New York's geographical position is 5 hours West of >> Greenwich. >> >> This goes on until you reach the 180th degree West, called the >> International Date Line, which is located in the Pacific Ocean. >> >> When you reach the International Date Line heading West from the USA, it >> is Thursday; but once you have crossed the Date Line it becomes Friday, and >> the beginning of a new day for the 180 degree East of Greenwich area of the >> world. >> >> ------------------------------- >> >> Last thought: If a salt water wave or spray hits my sextant I can just >> rinse it off with fresh water and dry it with a towel and it keeps working >> (with a drop of oil in the mechanism once in awhile) Gin also will do the >> job, but I don't think my rinse solutions will work for electronics.... >> They are nice toys and give you pretty pictures but don't trust your life >> or the safety of your boat to them. They are only a secondary source of >> information. >> >> Learn to do dead reckoning navigation the classical way, and you will >> always be safe. >> >> Connie >> >> >> thanks to all that took the time to share their ideas about this. I have a >>> pretty good idea of what course to take. I also have a lead on a what >>> sounds like a very interesting book. >>> Fair winds, >>> Tom B, Mont 17 #258 >>> >>> >> >>

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Main hatch
by Thomas Buzzi 07 Dec '14

07 Dec '14

Thanks, all, for the ideas. Jo Woodworks in Tx. was mentioned several times. I believe my friend, Ken, was considering making one from scratch out of wood. His skills with glass probably aren't up to making a one off from my own hatch. I was trying to save him some time as his "splash" schedule time limit is up in February. We can sail pretty much all year way down here in South Texas. I have wondered how they use the newer hatches which are not removable. Mine slides forward only about ten inches before hitting the mast tabernacle which does not leave much room to scramble below. Fortunately it is removable and perhaps the access situation is why. I too greatly favor the perforated aluminum toerails over the teak ones. I just finished rehabbing mine and rebolting them onto the hull yesterday. Good job to zone out with. Lots of repetition. Fair winds, Tom B

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Re: M_Boats: source for hatchboard
by ndorf＠surfbest.net 07 Dec '14

07 Dec '14

www -dot- jowoodworks -dot- com Sent from Windows Mail From: montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com Sent: ‎Sunday‎, ‎December‎ ‎7‎, ‎2014 ‎4‎:‎08‎ ‎AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Send montgomery_boats mailing list submissions to montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com You can reach the person managing the list at montgomery_boats-owner(a)mailman.xmission.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of montgomery_boats digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Main companionway hatch (Thomas Buzzi) 2. Re: Main companionway hatch (William Campion) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2014 05:58:02 -0600 From: Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi(a)gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: M_Boats: Main companionway hatch Message-ID: <CA+TbpAWS3eHNo4BnGxvjZ8Nh8Vu9szKFvCJmQ3xR55oaYh_bsQ(a)mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 I am open for suggestions on where to obtain a hatch for a Montgomery 17. A very good friend and fellow Montgomery 17 renovator has had his main companionway hatch stolen. His boat dates from around 1974. I am not sure what use it could be to anyone else. We searched the vacant lots around his work area thinking some prankster was having a creative moment but to no avail. Any information would be appreciated. Fair winds, Tom B, Mont. 17 #258, 77' ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2014 07:07:43 -0500 From: William Campion <wcampion(a)aol.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Main companionway hatch Message-ID: <9575F2C2-825B-461A-8ACE-90B05C6BFBD4(a)aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Tom, I ran across an old Monty that is being used as a lawn ornament. If you'd like I can make contact with the owner and see if they'd be interested in selling the hatch. Here is a pic of the hatch. The boat was built in 1973. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 571838 bytes Desc: not available URL: <https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/private/montgomery_boats/attac…> -------------- next part -------------- ~Skip~ > On Dec 7, 2014, at 6:58 AM, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > I am open for suggestions on where to obtain a hatch for a Montgomery 17. A > very good friend and fellow Montgomery 17 renovator has had his main > companionway hatch stolen. His boat dates from around 1974. I am not sure > what use it could be to anyone else. We searched the vacant lots around his > work area thinking some prankster was having a creative moment but to no > avail. > Any information would be appreciated. > > Fair winds, > Tom B, Mont. 17 #258, 77' ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ montgomery_boats mailing list montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! ------------------------------ End of montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 142, Issue 8 ************************************************

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2014 Arizona Yacht Club Governors Cup -
by GILASAILR＠aol.com 07 Dec '14

07 Dec '14

Beautiful day - breezes 'all over the map' - moments of brilliance and the dreaded 'Cone of Confusion' but we love sailing in t-shirts in December! Thanks and great work to the 1996 50 Mile Gov. Cup crew - Craig Painter - sorry we didn't repeat this time - but big fun ensued nonetheless!! That's why it's called 'racing' Chamber of Commerce Sunset photo - from the crew of 'Tiny Purple Fishes' M-17t sail # 354 GO

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gps
by Thomas Buzzi 06 Dec '14

06 Dec '14

Am looking for recommendations for a gps setup to use on my 17 for coastal cruising. Will a handheld suffice? Would I need one that will download charts? How will I know where I am when I am far enough off shore such that no physical markings are visible on the gps screen? Does the gps give lat/long readings which I then need to look up on a chart? Any advice will be appreciated. Tom B, M17 #258

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Fog sailing (motoring)
by Conbert Benneck 06 Dec '14

06 Dec '14

Hi Howard, When the fog gets that thick then your solution is the only proper one. Anchor; ring your bell to let others know that you are anchored, that still might be trying to find their way home, and wait for the fog to lift. Sailing back from Block Island years ago, four boats of our Goose Island Cruising (Boozing and Snoozing) Club (GICC) got into a pea-souper as we headed for the Watch Hill, RI entrance buoy. You had to find that, because if you didn't, there was a long hungry reef waiting for the unwary that stretched west from the Watch Hill buoy to Fishers Island. Visibility was down to about 1 boat length. We had stowed our sails and were all now under power, talking to each other via VHF radio. Dozens of boats were milling around wondering what to do.... One of our group heard the President of Pratt & Whitney Aircraft, talking to a friend. He had a large power boat, and was also approaching the Watch Hill entrance buoy. Our member gave him a call (our sailing gang were P&WA Engineering managers). Since his powerboat had radar, he asked us to do a 360 turn so that he could see us; and having found us on his radar, a few moments later he appear out of the fog. We tucked in behind him, like ducklings following their mother, and he took us all the way back to Noank, CT and our Marina at the entrance to the Mystic River. At the Marina entrance the fog was still so dense that we could barely make out the docks from 50 feet away, but we were home. So for years, our joke went, if all else fails during a heavy fog, call the President of Pratt & Whitney Aircraft, who has radar, and get him to act as Pilot to get home safely. It's nice when you have friends like that, who can help! Connie

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Howard's salt water 17
by Mark Dvorscak 05 Dec '14

05 Dec '14

Hey Howard, I think I talked to that same guy when I was looking for a 17. He was totally unprepared for that attempted crossing! He would have just disappeared without a trace if he hadn't turned back. Mark M23 & M15 former M17 too On Dec 4, 2014 2:47 PM, "Howard Audsley" <haudsley(a)tranquility.net> wrote: > I purchased my M17 from a gent who set off from San Francisco towards > Hawaii. His ONLY means of navigation was one hand held GPS unit. Not sure > if he had any paper charts, but he did not have a sextant, so if the GPS > gave out, was lost overboard or otherwise put out of commission, not sure > how he was going to find Hawaii. That is a big place to wander around > looking for such a tiny spec of land. Lucky for him he turned back after 4 > or 5 days, so it never became an issue. > > Anyway, yet another solution to one GPS and a sextant is several cheap GPS > units. Two or three of them combined are less expensive than a sextant, but > do the same thing. Leave the spares and fresh batteries safely stashed in > the box until you need them. > > BTW, I use an older Garmin GPS chart plotter with depth finder built in. > So in addition to knowing where I am, I know how much water is beneath me. > Mine also has the nifty feature of tide tables built in. On tidal waters, > that is more handy than you might think. > > But like the others, I still don't venture far on unfamiliar waters > without paper charts. I pay as much attention to them as the GPS. > > > On Dec 4, 2014, at 3:37 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote: > > > Hi Connie, > > Thanks for the added info. I finally get the idea of how a chronometer > > works using GMT. If your onboard timepiece associates hours with 15 > degrees > > west long then wherever you are at noon GMT is...... humm, lost it. Oh, > you > > have to measure the height of the sun at your present position to tell > you > > the degree long. to plot on your chart. Somehow. > > Too bad we don't live closer. I have always wanted to learn how to use a > > sextant but reading the information just never sunk in. Oh well, I can > get > > a hand bearing compass and some local charts. Sounds like fun and a good > > feeling to know where I am even if the gps quits. > > Tom B > > > > On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 3:11 PM, Conbert Benneck <chbenneck(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > > >> On 12/4/2014 2:01 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote: > >> > >> Tom > >> > >> I also can highly recommend the Dava Sobel book on "Longitude". > >> > >> She describes the basic problem that mariners had determining longitude, > >> and then tells the story of how the British Government put up a prize > for > >> anyone who could make an accurate chronometer. The Government was > pressured > >> to do this because of all the naval and merchant ships that were lost > as a > >> result of not having an accurate way to establish longitude reliably. > >> > >> If you divide the earth's circumference of 360 degrees by 24 hours, your > >> answer shows you that the earth rotates 15 degrees per hour. > >> > >> Wherever you may be on the surface of the earth, the sun rises, climbs > to > >> its meridian at what navigators call Local Apparent Noon (LAN) at your > >> location, and then starts descending again. > >> > >> If you had an accurate time piece set to Greenwich Mean Time, and the > time > >> pieces' error rate was constant, then knowing that, and the time of your > >> LAN it is a very simple math problem to determine how far West or East > of > >> Greenwich you are located at that specific moment > >> > >> If you measure the height of the sun at that point; and note the exact > >> time of the observation, in seconds; minutes; and hours, you can now > >> establish your longitudinal position (dependent on the accuracy of your > >> measurements). You have to do it in that order since each second > counts in > >> the calculation, and accuracy of time of observation is critical. > Seconds > >> change rapidly, minutes only 60 seconds later.... > >> > >> Example: New York City is roughly at 75 degrees W Longitude from 0 > degree > >> Greenwich, England. Divide 75 degrees by 15 (the degrees in an hour) > and > >> you will see that New York's geographical position is 5 hours West of > >> Greenwich. > >> > >> This goes on until you reach the 180th degree West, called the > >> International Date Line, which is located in the Pacific Ocean. > >> > >> When you reach the International Date Line heading West from the USA, it > >> is Thursday; but once you have crossed the Date Line it becomes Friday, > and > >> the beginning of a new day for the 180 degree East of Greenwich area of > the > >> world. > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> > >> Last thought: If a salt water wave or spray hits my sextant I can just > >> rinse it off with fresh water and dry it with a towel and it keeps > working > >> (with a drop of oil in the mechanism once in awhile) Gin also will do > the > >> job, but I don't think my rinse solutions will work for electronics.... > >> They are nice toys and give you pretty pictures but don't trust your > life > >> or the safety of your boat to them. They are only a secondary source of > >> information. > >> > >> Learn to do dead reckoning navigation the classical way, and you will > >> always be safe. > >> > >> Connie > >> > >> > >> thanks to all that took the time to share their ideas about this. I > have a > >>> pretty good idea of what course to take. I also have a lead on a what > >>> sounds like a very interesting book. > >>> Fair winds, > >>> Tom B, Mont 17 #258 > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > > >

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