January 2014 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

Little Breeze M15
by Michael Mann 18 Nov '15

18 Nov '15

Hi, My name is Michael Mann and in 1982, I sailed the Montgomery 15, Little Breeze from CA to Hawaii. I see on the web site that she has been rescued by new owners in Hawaii and I would love to correspond with them. I am currently sailing on a container ship headed for Honolulu and would welcome the chance to make contact. Thanks for any info. Michael Mann

11 16

Good Old Boat Review
by Ferdinand Johns 08 Mar '14

08 Mar '14

Hello, everybody. The Montgomery 17 review will appear in the March/April issue of Good Old Boat magazine, which will be available mid-February or so. Thanks for all of your help. It was an easy boat to say good things about. Best, Ferd Johns

4 5

New Minneapolis Monty owner
by Steven B Lindeman 04 Feb '14

04 Feb '14

2 1

Re: M_Boats: Minnesota
by bownez＠juno.com 31 Jan '14

31 Jan '14

Henry, Dale, Rich, Chris, Steve, and all, Minnesota is a fabulous area to own a trailer-able sailboat. We have lakes of all sizes, near and far. I don't know the total number of M-Boats here, they seem to appears from time to time. I have owned my M-17 since 1997. She is an earlier model, a 1976 hull #92. Sailboats Inc. was a dealer of the Montgomery boat line back in the 70's and 80's. They had several offices but their base of operations was Barker's Island outside of Superior, WI (to the best of my knowledge). When I first acquired my M17, I slipped her on Lake Waconia, west of town. It is a nice sailing lake, around 1200 acres. Now, I mainly explore with her, trailering to larger lakes in northern Mn and WI. My favorite is Vermilion. one of Minnesota's crown jewels. I can count about 10 sailing friends with M-Boats, and I'm sure there are plenty more out there waiting for spring. I would be open to meeting more, perhaps putting together an informal lunch/dinner meeting someplace convenient for all. We are enjoying a REAL Minnesota winter this year, and spring will be a welcome sight when she arrives. Projects await, I have varnish on order from Defender Marine. Bones ____________________________________________________________ How to Sleep Like a Rock Obey this one natural trick to fall asleep and stay asleep all night. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/52ebb82c27458382b1f5cst03vuc

1 0

Hi Tom,
by Henry Rodriguez 31 Jan '14

31 Jan '14

Thanks for the compliments. The pictures on the Foley Island web site are not mine, they are of another Venture 23. My pictures are on the Picasaweb link in my signature. A tape drive sail is/was a proprietary name used by one of the major sailmakers to describe a synthetic (plastic) sail whose shape was molded in during the manufacturing process and that used tapes radiating out from the corners along the computer mapped load lines to carry the stresses involved. -- Henry https://picasaweb.google.com/heinzir

2 1

Northern Gulf Coast information
by Cynthia Gillette 30 Jan '14

30 Jan '14

Hello to everybody: My co-captain and I are considering splashing our M17 somewhere on the Gulf Coast (La, Miss, Ala) and cruising the area including the barrier islands in Miss Sound. Anyone familiar with this area who has suggestions about marinas, anchorages, and things we must do and see while in that neighborhood would help us a lot with our planning. We would want to get there and be out by mid-May to avoid serious bad weather. Any input would be appreciated either online or through direct contact. Cheers and hopes for better weather for those of you not in warmer locations. Jim & Cynthia M17 Latitude

3 2

Minnesota
by Henry Rodriguez 30 Jan '14

30 Jan '14

Bones and Rich, just out of curiosity How many Montgomerys do you think there are in Minnesota? How many in the Twin Cities area? Do they ever get together? -----Original Message----- From: "montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com" <montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com> Sent: ‎1/‎28/‎2014 9:22 AM To: "montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com" <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 131, Issue 12 Send montgomery_boats mailing list submissions to montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com You can reach the person managing the list at montgomery_boats-owner(a)mailman.xmission.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of montgomery_boats digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Sails (Robbin Roddewig) 2. Re: Sails (Robbin Roddewig) 3. Re: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine (Gilbert Landin) 4. Re: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine (Rich Makela) 5. Re: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine (Rick Davies) 6. Re: mast raising 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine (stevetrapp) 7. Re: Sails (Todd Bradley) 8. Re: Sails (Robbin Roddewig) 9. Re: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine (Rich Makela) 10. Re: subject ? 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine (stevetrapp) 11. Re: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine (bownez(a)juno.com) 12. Re: subject ? 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine (Rick Davies) 13. Re: Mast Raising System (Rich Makela) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2014 08:20:22 -0500 From: Robbin Roddewig <robbin.roddewig(a)verizon.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sails Message-ID: <52E50B96.6050806(a)verizon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Hi Todd, what I did was to take the deck to hull joint apart just a bit and in the process remove and rebed that toe rail. My issue was leaking in the area that the water pools on the deck. It was a fairly big job for me and my son. I definitely did change out the SS screws. Jerry M had a great suggestion to replace the phillips head screws with square drive. As I found out, the phillips head have issue stripping. My suggestion on removing the screws is to use an impact driver. As far as the 5200 I think that it is fine for the hull to deck joint but for the toe rail bedding you could go with a less tenacious adhesive if you want. I did get some varying opinions about using the 5200. I also glassed the joint with tape and epoxy so I was going for a permanent hull to deck seal. I am not thinking polybutyl would be good for this application. I have some for bedding deck hardware but I would use an adhesive on the toe rail. Depending on your ambition you might try simply rebedding the rail and not messing with the hull to deck joint. But definitely do yourself a favor and get the square drive screws. I found those at West Marine after looking for them at many other fastener companies. Good luck with the projects and please let me know if you have any questions. Robbin M-23 #072 Deale MD On 1/23/2014 11:13 PM, Todd Bradley wrote: > Hi Robbin - thanks for the input. I think the 150 might be the way to go. > > I will need to check out your photos again on rebidding your toe-rail. I > also have leaks there. Just need to see if that makes it into this seasons > projects. Did you change out the original ss screws? I know that you used > the 3M 5200 as the sealer. I am a bit apprehensive of using 5200, as I > understand that the stuff has so much adhesion it never comes off. Which can > be a good thing. But just what if, in a few years I need to get it back > off.....you never know. Do you think there is any wisdom in bedding the toe > rail with butyl tape or a lower psi adhesive. > > Thanks again! > > > Todd Bradley > > M-23 #86 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: montgomery_boats-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com > [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Robbin > Roddewig > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2014 6:47 PM > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sails > > Hi Todd, > I had a hank on 150 on my 23 that worked great on the Chesapeake bay for > most of the conditions there. I moved to a roller furler this last season > and really like it. The roller has I think a 135. All the best with your > deferred maintenance. I know how that is...I also had the hatch rails > redone last winter, sealed the port hull to deck seam and this winter am > still working on replacing a bunch of the ash slats that had rotted and am > having the deck under the mast looked to. Its always something but the 23 > is a lot of fun to sail. > > Robbin > > On 1/23/2014 5:59 PM, Todd Bradley wrote: >> Hi Everybody, >> >> >> >> I am hoping to get some feedback regarding headsail size for my 23'. I do >> not currently have a headsail and am trying to determine the best size to >> start with as I eventually build a sail inventory. I will be doing most of >> my sailing on my local lake (Folsom). Where winds vary from 0 to 8 knots >> and then days with 8 to 15 knot winds. I will eventual get it up to Tahoe >> and down into SF bay where the winds will be stronger. I have spoken to a >> few other sailing folks and I am thinking of Starting with a 135 Genoa. >> >> >> >> What are others using? Do you think a 135 is a good place to start? >> >> >> >> Thanks in advance for any of your input! >> >> >> >> Todd Bradley >> >> >> >> M-23 #86 >> >> >> >> > > > > ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2014 08:22:43 -0500 From: Robbin Roddewig <robbin.roddewig(a)verizon.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sails Message-ID: <52E50C23.8080909(a)verizon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Great! Hope you have fun with that! We are completely shut down here as well as far as off season work. It is almost too cold for skiing! Almost... Robbin On 1/24/2014 8:46 AM, bownez(a)juno.com wrote: > Robbin, > > Now you got me anxious to try that old 150 you kindly shipped to me!! > No boating here for a while.... > > Bones > > M23 #75 > ____________________________________________________________ > Do THIS before eating carbs (every time) > 1 EASY tip to increase fat-burning, lower blood sugar & decrease fat storage > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/52e26ee1a2e7b6ee120dcst04vuc > > ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2014 18:09:22 -0600 From: "Gilbert Landin" <gilbert.landin(a)gmail.com> To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine Message-ID: <52e5a3b9.82ddb60a.142a.2aaf(a)mx.google.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Henry, I noticed a gin pole for raising the mast, where does the foot of the pole rest? Gilbert 1974 M-17 -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Henry Rodriguez Sent: Friday, January 24, 2014 11:56 PM To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine Thanks all for the replies and encouragement. I wrote a check for $2k today and will pay the rest when my friend brings her down from up north. It could be as soon as two weeks. I know I got a great deal but you will probably gasp when you find out how much my friend Jay paid for her: $200!! That's a two with only two zeroes after it! And that included an old air cooled (lawn-mower-on-a-stick) 5hp outboard. For another $100 the previous owner gave him several boxes of equipment, including a brand new Plastimo bulkhead compass (never installed), a brand new Danforth anchor with chain and rope rode, and some other stuff I can't remember. Jay knows he could easily get $4-6k for the boat so I'm happy to get it for $2500. He had a business deal fall through and needs the money. He may not buy the Halman after all. The transom had a slight crack that apparently widened a bit when the rudder grounded when Jay was sailing her this fall. He said he started the repair; looks like there's some fiberglass work in my future. I plan on fixing that first and then working on the exterior and rigging. I'll worry about the interior later. I have studied all of the pictures, project descriptions, and links on the MSOG site but I'm sure I'll be back asking lots of questions. Gary O., I remember you and your boat very well from the HPCC. I took some pictures of your boat but now that I'm about to become a Montgomery owner I wish I had taken more. I would love to see more detailed pictures of your deck and cockpit layout. I like the split-tail main sheet rigging and might try that on my new boat (she needs a name!) I get the same effect on Chiquita by using a dual main sheet arrangement with an independent tackle coming from each corner of the transom. Using the windward sheet allows me to get the boom to the center without too much downward pull. A cascaded vang controls twist with enough power to bend the boom. I don't even have the boat yet and I'm considering doing some custom rigging. I've got it bad! And I have a two page list of projects to complete on Chiquita that I haven't even started yet. No rest for the wicked! -- Henry https://picasaweb.google.com/heinzir ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2014 21:18:43 -0600 From: "Rich Makela" <richmak(a)makelaperformance.com> To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine Message-ID: <002401cf1b0e$7c6a3120$753e9360$(a)makelaperformance.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Gilbert, On my 1977 M-17 I use a whisker pole as part of the mast raising system. It attaches to a spinnaker pole ring at the bottom of the mast installed specifically for that purpose. Rich Makela M-17 #233 - Harmony -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Gilbert Landin Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2014 6:09 PM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine Henry, I noticed a gin pole for raising the mast, where does the foot of the pole rest? Gilbert 1974 M-17 -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Henry Rodriguez Sent: Friday, January 24, 2014 11:56 PM To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine Thanks all for the replies and encouragement. I wrote a check for $2k today and will pay the rest when my friend brings her down from up north. It could be as soon as two weeks. I know I got a great deal but you will probably gasp when you find out how much my friend Jay paid for her: $200!! That's a two with only two zeroes after it! And that included an old air cooled (lawn-mower-on-a-stick) 5hp outboard. For another $100 the previous owner gave him several boxes of equipment, including a brand new Plastimo bulkhead compass (never installed), a brand new Danforth anchor with chain and rope rode, and some other stuff I can't remember. Jay knows he could easily get $4-6k for the boat so I'm happy to get it for $2500. He had a business deal fall through and needs the money. He may not buy the Halman after all. The transom had a slight crack that apparently widened a bit when the rudder grounded when Jay was sailing her this fall. He said he started the repair; looks like there's some fiberglass work in my future. I plan on fixing that first and then working on the exterior and rigging. I'll worry about the interior later. I have studied all of the pictures, project descriptions, and links on the MSOG site but I'm sure I'll be back asking lots of questions. Gary O., I remember you and your boat very well from the HPCC. I took some pictures of your boat but now that I'm about to become a Montgomery owner I wish I had taken more. I would love to see more detailed pictures of your deck and cockpit layout. I like the split-tail main sheet rigging and might try that on my new boat (she needs a name!) I get the same effect on Chiquita by using a dual main sheet arrangement with an independent tackle coming from each corner of the transom. Using the windward sheet allows me to get the boom to the center without too much downward pull. A cascaded vang controls twist with enough power to bend the boom. I don't even have the boat yet and I'm considering doing some custom rigging. I've got it bad! And I have a two page list of projects to complete on Chiquita that I haven't even started yet. No rest for the wicked! -- Henry https://picasaweb.google.com/heinzir ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2014 06:56:09 -0500 From: Rick Davies <jdavies104(a)gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine Message-ID: <CA+0OvVj+zqygV0mLmqKb6Sk0qKnaDbZjgmW5Uafm+12TuEKeEA(a)mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Rich, I'm reaching the age where I could use some help raising the mast. Coud you give some more details of your setup? Thanks, Rick M17 #633 Lynne L On Sunday, January 26, 2014, Rich Makela <richmak(a)makelaperformance.com> wrote: > Gilbert, > > On my 1977 M-17 I use a whisker pole as part of the mast raising system. > It > attaches to a spinnaker pole ring at the bottom of the mast installed > specifically for that purpose. > > Rich Makela > M-17 #233 - Harmony > > -----Original Message----- > From: montgomery_boats-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> > [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;>] On > Behalf Of Gilbert > Landin > Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2014 6:09 PM > To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' > Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine > > Henry, I noticed a gin pole for raising the mast, where does the foot of > the > pole rest? > > Gilbert > > 1974 M-17 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: montgomery_boats-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> > [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;>] On > Behalf Of Henry > Rodriguez > Sent: Friday, January 24, 2014 11:56 PM > To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> > Subject: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine > > Thanks all for the replies and encouragement. I wrote a check for $2k > today > and will pay the rest when my friend brings her down from up north. > It could be as soon as two weeks. > > I know I got a great deal but you will probably gasp when you find out how > much my friend Jay paid for her: $200!! That's a two with only two > zeroes after it! And that included an old air cooled > (lawn-mower-on-a-stick) 5hp outboard. For another $100 the previous owner > gave him several boxes of equipment, including a brand new Plastimo > bulkhead > compass (never installed), a brand new Danforth anchor with chain and rope > rode, and some other stuff I can't remember. Jay knows he could easily get > $4-6k for the boat so I'm happy to get it for $2500. He had a business > deal > fall through and needs the money. He may not buy the Halman after all. > > The transom had a slight crack that apparently widened a bit when the > rudder > grounded when Jay was sailing her this fall. He said he started the > repair; > looks like there's some fiberglass work in my future. I plan on fixing that > first and then working on the exterior and rigging. I'll worry about the > interior later. I have studied all of the pictures, project descriptions, > and links on the MSOG site but I'm sure I'll be back asking lots of > questions. > > Gary O., I remember you and your boat very well from the HPCC. I took some > pictures of your boat but now that I'm about to become a Montgomery owner I > wish I had taken more. I would love to see more detailed pictures of your > deck and cockpit layout. I like the split-tail main sheet rigging and > might > try that on my new boat (she needs a name!) I get the same effect on > Chiquita by using a dual main sheet arrangement with an independent tackle > coming from each corner of the transom. Using the windward sheet allows me > to get the boom to the center without too much downward pull. A cascaded > vang controls twist with enough power to bend the boom. > > I don't even have the boat yet and I'm considering doing some custom > rigging. I've got it bad! And I have a two page list of projects to > complete on Chiquita that I haven't even started yet. No rest for the > wicked! > > > > -- > Henry > https://picasaweb.google.com/heinzir > > > > > ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2014 10:22:00 -0800 From: "stevetrapp" <stevetrapp(a)q.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: mast raising 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine Message-ID: <DA66ADC710414745B21AC363B4E911B8@STEVEEW> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Me too. The mast on my M-15 seems to be heavier and more difficult to raise in recent years than I remember from younger years. I have tried various home built props and rope leverage a schemes, but the best plan seems to be to engage my 17 year old grand- nephew in the process. If such a relative is not readily available, I suggest recruiting a young friend, an even offering a few $ compensation to get the job done. If all else fails, the local boat shop at the local marina will do it for about $ 25. Steve M-15 # 335 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Davies" <jdavies104(a)gmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, January 27, 2014 3:56 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine > Rich, > > I'm reaching the age where I could use some help raising the mast. Coud > you give some more details of your setup? > > Thanks, > > Rick > M17 #633 > Lynne L > > On Sunday, January 26, 2014, Rich Makela <richmak(a)makelaperformance.com> > wrote: > >> Gilbert, >> >> On my 1977 M-17 I use a whisker pole as part of the mast raising system. >> It >> attaches to a spinnaker pole ring at the bottom of the mast installed >> specifically for that purpose. >> >> Rich Makela >> M-17 #233 - Harmony >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: montgomery_boats-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> >> [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;>] On >> Behalf Of Gilbert >> Landin >> Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2014 6:09 PM >> To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' >> Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine >> >> Henry, I noticed a gin pole for raising the mast, where does the foot of >> the >> pole rest? >> >> Gilbert >> >> 1974 M-17 >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: montgomery_boats-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> >> [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;>] On >> Behalf Of Henry >> Rodriguez >> Sent: Friday, January 24, 2014 11:56 PM >> To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> >> Subject: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine >> >> Thanks all for the replies and encouragement. I wrote a check for $2k >> today >> and will pay the rest when my friend brings her down from up north. >> It could be as soon as two weeks. >> >> I know I got a great deal but you will probably gasp when you find out how >> much my friend Jay paid for her: $200!! That's a two with only two >> zeroes after it! And that included an old air cooled >> (lawn-mower-on-a-stick) 5hp outboard. For another $100 the previous owner >> gave him several boxes of equipment, including a brand new Plastimo >> bulkhead >> compass (never installed), a brand new Danforth anchor with chain and rope >> rode, and some other stuff I can't remember. Jay knows he could easily get >> $4-6k for the boat so I'm happy to get it for $2500. He had a business >> deal >> fall through and needs the money. He may not buy the Halman after all. >> >> The transom had a slight crack that apparently widened a bit when the >> rudder >> grounded when Jay was sailing her this fall. He said he started the >> repair; >> looks like there's some fiberglass work in my future. I plan on fixing that >> first and then working on the exterior and rigging. I'll worry about the >> interior later. I have studied all of the pictures, project descriptions, >> and links on the MSOG site but I'm sure I'll be back asking lots of >> questions. >> >> Gary O., I remember you and your boat very well from the HPCC. I took some >> pictures of your boat but now that I'm about to become a Montgomery owner I >> wish I had taken more. I would love to see more detailed pictures of your >> deck and cockpit layout. I like the split-tail main sheet rigging and >> might >> try that on my new boat (she needs a name!) I get the same effect on >> Chiquita by using a dual main sheet arrangement with an independent tackle >> coming from each corner of the transom. Using the windward sheet allows me >> to get the boom to the center without too much downward pull. A cascaded >> vang controls twist with enough power to bend the boom. >> >> I don't even have the boat yet and I'm considering doing some custom >> rigging. I've got it bad! And I have a two page list of projects to >> complete on Chiquita that I haven't even started yet. No rest for the >> wicked! >> >> >> >> -- >> Henry >> https://picasaweb.google.com/heinzir >> >> >> >> >> > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2013.0.3462 / Virus Database: 3681/7035 - Release Date: 01/26/14 > ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2014 10:35:56 -0800 From: "Todd Bradley" <todd(a)btbuilders.net> To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sails Message-ID: <041f01cf1b8e$9f836c50$de8a44f0$@net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Robbin - thanks a bunch for the feedback! I think you are right, something like 5200 might be best re-bedding the toe rail. Very unlikely I'll be taking it back off in the next 20 years! Did you work the toe rail in sections? Taking part off and applying sealant and then installing the fasteners as you went? Or did you remove the entire length of the rail and then reinstall. I am assuming your son was on the inside threading the nut on the backside while you tighten from the outside? Sounds like a great job for my 9 year-old. Todd Bradley M-23 #86 -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Robbin Roddewig Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2014 5:20 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sails Hi Todd, what I did was to take the deck to hull joint apart just a bit and in the process remove and rebed that toe rail. My issue was leaking in the area that the water pools on the deck. It was a fairly big job for me and my son. I definitely did change out the SS screws. Jerry M had a great suggestion to replace the phillips head screws with square drive. As I found out, the phillips head have issue stripping. My suggestion on removing the screws is to use an impact driver. As far as the 5200 I think that it is fine for the hull to deck joint but for the toe rail bedding you could go with a less tenacious adhesive if you want. I did get some varying opinions about using the 5200. I also glassed the joint with tape and epoxy so I was going for a permanent hull to deck seal. I am not thinking polybutyl would be good for this application. I have some for bedding deck hardware but I would use an adhesive on the toe rail. Depending on your ambition you might try simply rebedding the rail and not messing with the hull to deck joint. But definitely do yourself a favor and get the square drive screws. I found those at West Marine after looking for them at many other fastener companies. Good luck with the projects and please let me know if you have any questions. Robbin M-23 #072 Deale MD On 1/23/2014 11:13 PM, Todd Bradley wrote: > Hi Robbin - thanks for the input. I think the 150 might be the way to go. > > I will need to check out your photos again on rebidding your toe-rail. > I also have leaks there. Just need to see if that makes it into this > seasons projects. Did you change out the original ss screws? I know > that you used the 3M 5200 as the sealer. I am a bit apprehensive of > using 5200, as I understand that the stuff has so much adhesion it > never comes off. Which can be a good thing. But just what if, in a > few years I need to get it back off.....you never know. Do you think > there is any wisdom in bedding the toe rail with butyl tape or a lower psi adhesive. > > Thanks again! > > > Todd Bradley > > M-23 #86 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: montgomery_boats-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com > [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of > Robbin Roddewig > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2014 6:47 PM > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sails > > Hi Todd, > I had a hank on 150 on my 23 that worked great on the Chesapeake bay > for most of the conditions there. I moved to a roller furler this > last season and really like it. The roller has I think a 135. All > the best with your deferred maintenance. I know how that is...I also > had the hatch rails redone last winter, sealed the port hull to deck > seam and this winter am still working on replacing a bunch of the ash > slats that had rotted and am having the deck under the mast looked to. > Its always something but the 23 is a lot of fun to sail. > > Robbin > > On 1/23/2014 5:59 PM, Todd Bradley wrote: >> Hi Everybody, >> >> >> >> I am hoping to get some feedback regarding headsail size for my 23'. >> I do not currently have a headsail and am trying to determine the >> best size to start with as I eventually build a sail inventory. I >> will be doing most of my sailing on my local lake (Folsom). Where >> winds vary from 0 to 8 knots and then days with 8 to 15 knot winds. >> I will eventual get it up to Tahoe and down into SF bay where the >> winds will be stronger. I have spoken to a few other sailing folks and I am thinking of Starting with a 135 Genoa. >> >> >> >> What are others using? Do you think a 135 is a good place to start? >> >> >> >> Thanks in advance for any of your input! >> >> >> >> Todd Bradley >> >> >> >> M-23 #86 >> >> >> >> > > > > ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2014 20:00:47 -0500 From: Robbin Roddewig <robbin.roddewig(a)verizon.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sails Message-ID: <52E7013F.5010407(a)verizon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Hi Todd, I took the back half off and completed that. Then did the front half. You might consider starting at the front as the front most screws were the most difficult since they are not visible due to the chain locker. Yes my son was manning the inside. He had disposable gloves on and changed often as the marine epoxy is messy and you do want to seal the screws. Do not forget the washers as well! The encouraging thing about the repair is that there is not a drop of water since the repair! Robbin M-23 https://picasaweb.google.com/110938325409185510143/M23# On 1/27/2014 1:35 PM, Todd Bradley wrote: > Hi Robbin - thanks a bunch for the feedback! I think you are right, > something like 5200 might be best re-bedding the toe rail. Very unlikely > I'll be taking it back off in the next 20 years! > > Did you work the toe rail in sections? Taking part off and applying sealant > and then installing the fasteners as you went? Or did you remove the entire > length of the rail and then reinstall. > > I am assuming your son was on the inside threading the nut on the backside > while you tighten from the outside? Sounds like a great job for my 9 > year-old. > > Todd Bradley > > M-23 #86 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: montgomery_boats-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com > [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Robbin > Roddewig > Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2014 5:20 AM > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sails > > Hi Todd, > what I did was to take the deck to hull joint apart just a bit and in the > process remove and rebed that toe rail. My issue was leaking in the area > that the water pools on the deck. It was a fairly big job for me and my > son. I definitely did change out the SS screws. Jerry M had a great > suggestion to replace the phillips head screws with square drive. > As I found out, the phillips head have issue stripping. My suggestion on > removing the screws is to use an impact driver. As far as the 5200 I think > that it is fine for the hull to deck joint but for the toe rail bedding you > could go with a less tenacious adhesive if you want. I did get some varying > opinions about using the 5200. I also glassed the joint with tape and epoxy > so I was going for a permanent hull to deck seal. I am not thinking > polybutyl would be good for this application. > I have some for bedding deck hardware but I would use an adhesive on the toe > rail. > Depending on your ambition you might try simply rebedding the rail and not > messing with the hull to deck joint. But definitely do yourself a favor and > get the square drive screws. I found those at West Marine after looking for > them at many other fastener companies. > > Good luck with the projects and please let me know if you have any > questions. > > Robbin > M-23 #072 > Deale MD > > On 1/23/2014 11:13 PM, Todd Bradley wrote: >> Hi Robbin - thanks for the input. I think the 150 might be the way to go. >> >> I will need to check out your photos again on rebidding your toe-rail. >> I also have leaks there. Just need to see if that makes it into this >> seasons projects. Did you change out the original ss screws? I know >> that you used the 3M 5200 as the sealer. I am a bit apprehensive of >> using 5200, as I understand that the stuff has so much adhesion it >> never comes off. Which can be a good thing. But just what if, in a >> few years I need to get it back off.....you never know. Do you think >> there is any wisdom in bedding the toe rail with butyl tape or a lower psi > adhesive. >> Thanks again! >> >> >> Todd Bradley >> >> M-23 #86 >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: montgomery_boats-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com >> [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of >> Robbin Roddewig >> Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2014 6:47 PM >> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats >> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sails >> >> Hi Todd, >> I had a hank on 150 on my 23 that worked great on the Chesapeake bay >> for most of the conditions there. I moved to a roller furler this >> last season and really like it. The roller has I think a 135. All >> the best with your deferred maintenance. I know how that is...I also >> had the hatch rails redone last winter, sealed the port hull to deck >> seam and this winter am still working on replacing a bunch of the ash >> slats that had rotted and am having the deck under the mast looked to. >> Its always something but the 23 is a lot of fun to sail. >> >> Robbin >> >> On 1/23/2014 5:59 PM, Todd Bradley wrote: >>> Hi Everybody, >>> >>> >>> >>> I am hoping to get some feedback regarding headsail size for my 23'. >>> I do not currently have a headsail and am trying to determine the >>> best size to start with as I eventually build a sail inventory. I >>> will be doing most of my sailing on my local lake (Folsom). Where >>> winds vary from 0 to 8 knots and then days with 8 to 15 knot winds. >>> I will eventual get it up to Tahoe and down into SF bay where the >>> winds will be stronger. I have spoken to a few other sailing folks and I > am thinking of Starting with a 135 Genoa. >>> >>> >>> What are others using? Do you think a 135 is a good place to start? >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks in advance for any of your input! >>> >>> >>> >>> Todd Bradley >>> >>> >>> >>> M-23 #86 >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > > ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2014 22:32:25 -0600 From: "Rich Makela" <richmak(a)makelaperformance.com> To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine Message-ID: <006501cf1be1$f2796fb0$d76c4f10$(a)makelaperformance.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" A few photos would be the best solution, but I'm in Minnesota and the boat is in a barn for the winter. I'll do my best to describe my setup. First, I devised my system to work either on the trailer or on the water. I fasten one end of the whisker pole to a spinnaker pole ring at the bottom of the mast. I use the main sheet, with the bottom end attached where the jib tack normally attaches, to provide the mechanical advantage. The other end of the main sheet attaches to the outer end of the whisker pole, along with the jib halyard leading from the masthead. I run lines from the outer end of the whisker pole to holes in the toe rails to provide side-to-side support to keep the whisker pole centered. I would have to wait until spring to report the exact position of the attachment to the toe rails, but it is a foot or so aft of the base of the mast. The position must be such as to maintain reasonably constant tension throughout the raising process. I pull on the main sheet to raise the mast. I've rounded off the aft portion of the bottom of the mast so that it rolls easily as the mast rises from horizontal to vertical. Depending on the length of your main sheet, it may be necessary at the end to crank down on the jib halyard to get the mast all the way to vertical. I need to apply enough tension at the end to enable me to connect the forestay. I leave the backstay alone to preserve the fore-and-aft position of the mast. I would be happy to take pictures in May, but this is the best can do at the moment. Rich Makela M-17 #233 - Harmony -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Rick Davies Sent: Monday, January 27, 2014 5:56 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine Rich, I'm reaching the age where I could use some help raising the mast. Coud you give some more details of your setup? Thanks, Rick M17 #633 Lynne L On Sunday, January 26, 2014, Rich Makela <richmak(a)makelaperformance.com> wrote: > Gilbert, > > On my 1977 M-17 I use a whisker pole as part of the mast raising system. > It > attaches to a spinnaker pole ring at the bottom of the mast installed > specifically for that purpose. > > Rich Makela > M-17 #233 - Harmony > > -----Original Message----- > From: montgomery_boats-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> > [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;>] > On Behalf Of Gilbert Landin > Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2014 6:09 PM > To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' > Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine > > Henry, I noticed a gin pole for raising the mast, where does the foot > of the pole rest? > > Gilbert > > 1974 M-17 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: montgomery_boats-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> > [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;>] > On Behalf Of Henry Rodriguez > Sent: Friday, January 24, 2014 11:56 PM > To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> > Subject: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine > > Thanks all for the replies and encouragement. I wrote a check for $2k > today and will pay the rest when my friend brings her down from up > north. > It could be as soon as two weeks. > > I know I got a great deal but you will probably gasp when you find out how > much my friend Jay paid for her: $200!! That's a two with only two > zeroes after it! And that included an old air cooled > (lawn-mower-on-a-stick) 5hp outboard. For another $100 the previous > owner gave him several boxes of equipment, including a brand new > Plastimo bulkhead compass (never installed), a brand new Danforth > anchor with chain and rope rode, and some other stuff I can't > remember. Jay knows he could easily get $4-6k for the boat so I'm > happy to get it for $2500. He had a business deal fall through and > needs the money. He may not buy the Halman after all. > > The transom had a slight crack that apparently widened a bit when the > rudder grounded when Jay was sailing her this fall. He said he > started the repair; looks like there's some fiberglass work in my > future. I plan on fixing that first and then working on the exterior > and rigging. I'll worry about the interior later. I have studied all > of the pictures, project descriptions, and links on the MSOG site but > I'm sure I'll be back asking lots of questions. > > Gary O., I remember you and your boat very well from the HPCC. I took > some pictures of your boat but now that I'm about to become a > Montgomery owner I wish I had taken more. I would love to see more > detailed pictures of your deck and cockpit layout. I like the > split-tail main sheet rigging and might try that on my new boat (she > needs a name!) I get the same effect on Chiquita by using a dual main > sheet arrangement with an independent tackle coming from each corner > of the transom. Using the windward sheet allows me to get the boom to > the center without too much downward pull. A cascaded vang controls > twist with enough power to bend the boom. > > I don't even have the boat yet and I'm considering doing some custom > rigging. I've got it bad! And I have a two page list of projects to > complete on Chiquita that I haven't even started yet. No rest for the > wicked! > > > > -- > Henry > https://picasaweb.google.com/heinzir > > > > > ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2014 20:50:11 -0800 From: "stevetrapp" <stevetrapp(a)q.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: subject ? 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine Message-ID: <2298AAF487A9420DAD094A2EF0B43326@STEVEEW> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" You guys have long concluded the discussion about the recently bought M-17 and moved on to the question of raising the mast. Why not change the subject line to the subject you're actually discussing? Would be easier for some of us to follow. Steve M-15 # 335 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rich Makela" <richmak(a)makelaperformance.com> To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, January 27, 2014 8:32 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine >A few photos would be the best solution, but I'm in Minnesota and the boat > is in a barn for the winter. I'll do my best to describe my setup. > > First, I devised my system to work either on the trailer or on the water. I > fasten one end of the whisker pole to a spinnaker pole ring at the bottom of > the mast. I use the main sheet, with the bottom end attached where the jib > tack normally attaches, to provide the mechanical advantage. The other end > of the main sheet attaches to the outer end of the whisker pole, along with > the jib halyard leading from the masthead. I run lines from the outer end > of the whisker pole to holes in the toe rails to provide side-to-side > support to keep the whisker pole centered. I would have to wait until > spring to report the exact position of the attachment to the toe rails, but > it is a foot or so aft of the base of the mast. The position must be such > as to maintain reasonably constant tension throughout the raising process. > > I pull on the main sheet to raise the mast. I've rounded off the aft > portion of the bottom of the mast so that it rolls easily as the mast rises > from horizontal to vertical. Depending on the length of your main sheet, it > may be necessary at the end to crank down on the jib halyard to get the mast > all the way to vertical. I need to apply enough tension at the end to > enable me to connect the forestay. I leave the backstay alone to preserve > the fore-and-aft position of the mast. > > I would be happy to take pictures in May, but this is the best can do at the > moment. > > Rich Makela > M-17 #233 - Harmony > > -----Original Message----- > From: montgomery_boats-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com > [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Rick > Davies > Sent: Monday, January 27, 2014 5:56 AM > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine > > Rich, > > I'm reaching the age where I could use some help raising the mast. Coud you > give some more details of your setup? > > Thanks, > > Rick > M17 #633 > Lynne L > > On Sunday, January 26, 2014, Rich Makela <richmak(a)makelaperformance.com> > wrote: > >> Gilbert, >> >> On my 1977 M-17 I use a whisker pole as part of the mast raising system. >> It >> attaches to a spinnaker pole ring at the bottom of the mast installed >> specifically for that purpose. >> >> Rich Makela >> M-17 #233 - Harmony >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: montgomery_boats-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> >> [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;>] >> On Behalf Of Gilbert Landin >> Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2014 6:09 PM >> To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' >> Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine >> >> Henry, I noticed a gin pole for raising the mast, where does the foot >> of the pole rest? >> >> Gilbert >> >> 1974 M-17 >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: montgomery_boats-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> >> [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;>] >> On Behalf Of Henry Rodriguez >> Sent: Friday, January 24, 2014 11:56 PM >> To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> >> Subject: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine >> >> Thanks all for the replies and encouragement. I wrote a check for $2k >> today and will pay the rest when my friend brings her down from up >> north. >> It could be as soon as two weeks. >> >> I know I got a great deal but you will probably gasp when you find out how >> much my friend Jay paid for her: $200!! That's a two with only two >> zeroes after it! And that included an old air cooled >> (lawn-mower-on-a-stick) 5hp outboard. For another $100 the previous >> owner gave him several boxes of equipment, including a brand new >> Plastimo bulkhead compass (never installed), a brand new Danforth >> anchor with chain and rope rode, and some other stuff I can't >> remember. Jay knows he could easily get $4-6k for the boat so I'm >> happy to get it for $2500. He had a business deal fall through and >> needs the money. He may not buy the Halman after all. >> >> The transom had a slight crack that apparently widened a bit when the >> rudder grounded when Jay was sailing her this fall. He said he >> started the repair; looks like there's some fiberglass work in my >> future. I plan on fixing that first and then working on the exterior >> and rigging. I'll worry about the interior later. I have studied all >> of the pictures, project descriptions, and links on the MSOG site but >> I'm sure I'll be back asking lots of questions. >> >> Gary O., I remember you and your boat very well from the HPCC. I took >> some pictures of your boat but now that I'm about to become a >> Montgomery owner I wish I had taken more. I would love to see more >> detailed pictures of your deck and cockpit layout. I like the >> split-tail main sheet rigging and might try that on my new boat (she >> needs a name!) I get the same effect on Chiquita by using a dual main >> sheet arrangement with an independent tackle coming from each corner >> of the transom. Using the windward sheet allows me to get the boom to >> the center without too much downward pull. A cascaded vang controls >> twist with enough power to bend the boom. >> >> I don't even have the boat yet and I'm considering doing some custom >> rigging. I've got it bad! And I have a two page list of projects to >> complete on Chiquita that I haven't even started yet. No rest for the >> wicked! >> >> >> >> -- >> Henry >> https://picasaweb.google.com/heinzir >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2013.0.3462 / Virus Database: 3681/7038 - Release Date: 01/27/14 > ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2014 14:20:19 GMT From: "bownez(a)juno.com" <bownez(a)juno.com> To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine Message-ID: <20140128.082019.22199.0(a)webmail03.vgs.untd.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Rich, I take it you have a very beefy whiskerpole. (a hemmm) Might you have the model number? Is it a Forespar item? Bones ____________________________________________________________ Fast, Secure, NetZero 4G Mobile Broadband. Try it. http://www.netzero.net/?refcd=NZINTISP0512T4GOUT2 ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2014 09:34:05 -0500 From: Rick Davies <jdavies104(a)gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: subject ? 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine Message-ID: <CA+0OvVhAMPJfSWYMRAC6TFUB5DHbOB5eSnzKJ6pV2qXVed=vmA(a)mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Thanks, Rich. That seems like a pretty simple setup. Do you run the mainsheet through a block on the bow? And do you need a winch and crank to pull on the mainsheet? Seems like it must take a lot of tension to get the mast started up. Would appreciate some pix when the weather warms up (if it ever does this year). Rick M17 #633 Lynne L On Mon, Jan 27, 2014 at 11:50 PM, stevetrapp <stevetrapp(a)q.com> wrote: > You guys have long concluded the discussion about the recently bought > M-17 and moved on to the question of raising the mast. Why not change the > subject line to the subject you're actually discussing? Would be easier > for some of us to follow. > Steve > M-15 # 335 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rich Makela" <richmak(a)makelaperformance.com> > To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" < > montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Sent: Monday, January 27, 2014 8:32 PM > Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine > > > >A few photos would be the best solution, but I'm in Minnesota and the boat > > is in a barn for the winter. I'll do my best to describe my setup. > > > > First, I devised my system to work either on the trailer or on the > water. I > > fasten one end of the whisker pole to a spinnaker pole ring at the > bottom of > > the mast. I use the main sheet, with the bottom end attached where the > jib > > tack normally attaches, to provide the mechanical advantage. The other > end > > of the main sheet attaches to the outer end of the whisker pole, along > with > > the jib halyard leading from the masthead. I run lines from the outer > end > > of the whisker pole to holes in the toe rails to provide side-to-side > > support to keep the whisker pole centered. I would have to wait until > > spring to report the exact position of the attachment to the toe rails, > but > > it is a foot or so aft of the base of the mast. The position must be > such > > as to maintain reasonably constant tension throughout the raising > process. > > > > I pull on the main sheet to raise the mast. I've rounded off the aft > > portion of the bottom of the mast so that it rolls easily as the mast > rises > > from horizontal to vertical. Depending on the length of your main > sheet, it > > may be necessary at the end to crank down on the jib halyard to get the > mast > > all the way to vertical. I need to apply enough tension at the end to > > enable me to connect the forestay. I leave the backstay alone to > preserve > > the fore-and-aft position of the mast. > > > > I would be happy to take pictures in May, but this is the best can do at > the > > moment. > > > > Rich Makela > > M-17 #233 - Harmony > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: montgomery_boats-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com > > [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Rick > > Davies > > Sent: Monday, January 27, 2014 5:56 AM > > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > > Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine > > > > Rich, > > > > I'm reaching the age where I could use some help raising the mast. Coud > you > > give some more details of your setup? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Rick > > M17 #633 > > Lynne L > > > > On Sunday, January 26, 2014, Rich Makela <richmak(a)makelaperformance.com> > > wrote: > > > >> Gilbert, > >> > >> On my 1977 M-17 I use a whisker pole as part of the mast raising system. > >> It > >> attaches to a spinnaker pole ring at the bottom of the mast installed > >> specifically for that purpose. > >> > >> Rich Makela > >> M-17 #233 - Harmony > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: montgomery_boats-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> > >> [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;>] > >> On Behalf Of Gilbert Landin > >> Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2014 6:09 PM > >> To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' > >> Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine > >> > >> Henry, I noticed a gin pole for raising the mast, where does the foot > >> of the pole rest? > >> > >> Gilbert > >> > >> 1974 M-17 > >> > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: montgomery_boats-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> > >> [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;>] > >> On Behalf Of Henry Rodriguez > >> Sent: Friday, January 24, 2014 11:56 PM > >> To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> > >> Subject: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine > >> > >> Thanks all for the replies and encouragement. I wrote a check for $2k > >> today and will pay the rest when my friend brings her down from up > >> north. > >> It could be as soon as two weeks. > >> > >> I know I got a great deal but you will probably gasp when you find out > how > >> much my friend Jay paid for her: $200!! That's a two with only two > >> zeroes after it! And that included an old air cooled > >> (lawn-mower-on-a-stick) 5hp outboard. For another $100 the previous > >> owner gave him several boxes of equipment, including a brand new > >> Plastimo bulkhead compass (never installed), a brand new Danforth > >> anchor with chain and rope rode, and some other stuff I can't > >> remember. Jay knows he could easily get $4-6k for the boat so I'm > >> happy to get it for $2500. He had a business deal fall through and > >> needs the money. He may not buy the Halman after all. > >> > >> The transom had a slight crack that apparently widened a bit when the > >> rudder grounded when Jay was sailing her this fall. He said he > >> started the repair; looks like there's some fiberglass work in my > >> future. I plan on fixing that first and then working on the exterior > >> and rigging. I'll worry about the interior later. I have studied all > >> of the pictures, project descriptions, and links on the MSOG site but > >> I'm sure I'll be back asking lots of questions. > >> > >> Gary O., I remember you and your boat very well from the HPCC. I took > >> some pictures of your boat but now that I'm about to become a > >> Montgomery owner I wish I had taken more. I would love to see more > >> detailed pictures of your deck and cockpit layout. I like the > >> split-tail main sheet rigging and might try that on my new boat (she > >> needs a name!) I get the same effect on Chiquita by using a dual main > >> sheet arrangement with an independent tackle coming from each corner > >> of the transom. Using the windward sheet allows me to get the boom to > >> the center without too much downward pull. A cascaded vang controls > >> twist with enough power to bend the boom. > >> > >> I don't even have the boat yet and I'm considering doing some custom > >> rigging. I've got it bad! And I have a two page list of projects to > >> complete on Chiquita that I haven't even started yet. No rest for the > >> wicked! > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Henry > >> https://picasaweb.google.com/heinzir > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > ----- > > No virus found in this message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 2013.0.3462 / Virus Database: 3681/7038 - Release Date: 01/27/14 > > > ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2014 09:20:11 -0600 From: "Rich Makela" <richmak(a)makelaperformance.com> To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Mast Raising System Message-ID: <001001cf1c3c$70b10aa0$52131fe0$(a)makelaperformance.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Rick (and Bones), When I refer to the mainsheet I mean the whole assembly, including the blocks. With the bottom rounded the mast goes up easily, and I don't need to use a winch. As far as I know there is nothing special about the whisker pole. I'll take photos when we're done with winter. That may be a while - it's 15 below zero at the moment. Rich -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Rick Davies Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2014 8:34 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: subject ? 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine Thanks, Rich. That seems like a pretty simple setup. Do you run the mainsheet through a block on the bow? And do you need a winch and crank to pull on the mainsheet? Seems like it must take a lot of tension to get the mast started up. Would appreciate some pix when the weather warms up (if it ever does this year). Rick M17 #633 Lynne L On Mon, Jan 27, 2014 at 11:50 PM, stevetrapp <stevetrapp(a)q.com> wrote: > You guys have long concluded the discussion about the recently > bought > M-17 and moved on to the question of raising the mast. Why not change > the subject line to the subject you're actually discussing? Would be > easier for some of us to follow. > Steve > M-15 # 335 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rich Makela" <richmak(a)makelaperformance.com> > To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" < > montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Sent: Monday, January 27, 2014 8:32 PM > Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine > > > >A few photos would be the best solution, but I'm in Minnesota and the > >boat is in a barn for the winter. I'll do my best to describe my setup. > > > > First, I devised my system to work either on the trailer or on the > water. I > > fasten one end of the whisker pole to a spinnaker pole ring at the > bottom of > > the mast. I use the main sheet, with the bottom end attached where > > the > jib > > tack normally attaches, to provide the mechanical advantage. The > > other > end > > of the main sheet attaches to the outer end of the whisker pole, > > along > with > > the jib halyard leading from the masthead. I run lines from the > > outer > end > > of the whisker pole to holes in the toe rails to provide > > side-to-side support to keep the whisker pole centered. I would > > have to wait until spring to report the exact position of the > > attachment to the toe rails, > but > > it is a foot or so aft of the base of the mast. The position must > > be > such > > as to maintain reasonably constant tension throughout the raising > process. > > > > I pull on the main sheet to raise the mast. I've rounded off the > > aft portion of the bottom of the mast so that it rolls easily as the > > mast > rises > > from horizontal to vertical. Depending on the length of your main > sheet, it > > may be necessary at the end to crank down on the jib halyard to get > > the > mast > > all the way to vertical. I need to apply enough tension at the end > > to enable me to connect the forestay. I leave the backstay alone to > preserve > > the fore-and-aft position of the mast. > > > > I would be happy to take pictures in May, but this is the best can > > do at > the > > moment. > > > > Rich Makela > > M-17 #233 - Harmony > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: montgomery_boats-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com > > [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of > > Rick Davies > > Sent: Monday, January 27, 2014 5:56 AM > > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > > Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine > > > > Rich, > > > > I'm reaching the age where I could use some help raising the mast. > > Coud > you > > give some more details of your setup? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Rick > > M17 #633 > > Lynne L > > > > On Sunday, January 26, 2014, Rich Makela > > <richmak(a)makelaperformance.com> > > wrote: > > > >> Gilbert, > >> > >> On my 1977 M-17 I use a whisker pole as part of the mast raising system. > >> It > >> attaches to a spinnaker pole ring at the bottom of the mast > >> installed specifically for that purpose. > >> > >> Rich Makela > >> M-17 #233 - Harmony > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: montgomery_boats-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> > >> [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com > >> <javascript:;>] On Behalf Of Gilbert Landin > >> Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2014 6:09 PM > >> To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' > >> Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine > >> > >> Henry, I noticed a gin pole for raising the mast, where does the > >> foot of the pole rest? > >> > >> Gilbert > >> > >> 1974 M-17 > >> > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: montgomery_boats-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> > >> [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com > >> <javascript:;>] On Behalf Of Henry Rodriguez > >> Sent: Friday, January 24, 2014 11:56 PM > >> To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;> > >> Subject: M_Boats: 1979 M17--She Will Be Mine > >> > >> Thanks all for the replies and encouragement. I wrote a check for > >> $2k today and will pay the rest when my friend brings her down from > >> up north. > >> It could be as soon as two weeks. > >> > >> I know I got a great deal but you will probably gasp when you find > >> out > how > >> much my friend Jay paid for her: $200!! That's a two with only two > >> zeroes after it! And that included an old air cooled > >> (lawn-mower-on-a-stick) 5hp outboard. For another $100 the previous > >> owner gave him several boxes of equipment, including a brand new > >> Plastimo bulkhead compass (never installed), a brand new Danforth > >> anchor with chain and rope rode, and some other stuff I can't > >> remember. Jay knows he could easily get $4-6k for the boat so I'm > >> happy to get it for $2500. He had a business deal fall through and > >> needs the money. He may not buy the Halman after all. > >> > >> The transom had a slight crack that apparently widened a bit when > >> the rudder grounded when Jay was sailing her this fall. He said he > >> started the repair; looks like there's some fiberglass work in my > >> future. I plan on fixing that first and then working on the > >> exterior and rigging. I'll worry about the interior later. I have > >> studied all of the pictures, project descriptions, and links on the > >> MSOG site but I'm sure I'll be back asking lots of questions. > >> > >> Gary O., I remember you and your boat very well from the HPCC. I > >> took some pictures of your boat but now that I'm about to become a > >> Montgomery owner I wish I had taken more. I would love to see more > >> detailed pictures of your deck and cockpit layout. I like the > >> split-tail main sheet rigging and might try that on my new boat > >> (she needs a name!) I get the same effect on Chiquita by using a > >> dual main sheet arrangement with an independent tackle coming from > >> each corner of the transom. Using the windward sheet allows me to > >> get the boom to the center without too much downward pull. A > >> cascaded vang controls twist with enough power to bend the boom. > >> > >> I don't even have the boat yet and I'm considering doing some > >> custom rigging. I've got it bad! And I have a two page list of > >> projects to complete on Chiquita that I haven't even started yet. > >> No rest for the wicked! > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Henry > >> https://picasaweb.google.com/heinzir > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > ----- > > No virus found in this message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 2013.0.3462 / Virus Database: 3681/7038 - Release Date: > > 01/27/14 > > > ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ montgomery_boats mailing list montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! End of montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 131, Issue 12 *************************************************

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2014 WICR/Potter Invitational recount and Thank You!
by GILASAILR＠aol.com 30 Jan '14

30 Jan '14

To all who came to the 2014 WICR, and those who participated from afar - A huge -Thank You ! The reason the event is fun - is YOU and your commitment to sailing/racing, eating chili-size and sailing and racing and sailing and...driving in from Timbukthree to the Sticker Patch,Arizona! Great to see new faces - love seeing the 'old' faces - the best part of my weekend - other than seeing/sailing with the fleet - was sailing with three different crew! One each day! Spread the FUN!! Friday- Dave Santana - SIL - great job Dave! Saturday-Craig Painter (hoping to have Frankengomery 17 ready for 2015) - Always a stellar performance! Sunday- Good friend past co-worker all around great guy - Nels Broce hailing from MA and ME in another life - sailed an Indian Sloop in 1939? just kidding - rose to the task in excellent fashion! Fast learner too.... THANK YOU boyz - you made one heck of a showing !! 2015 NEWS 2015 Tentative Schedule- Friday - sail if you are here - 'Friday Lite'- Friday nite Wild Horse West Saturday - Fleet Racing Sunday - Distance race - no crowded start - sail around lake approx 15 miles - finish ! Planned: Silver and Corinthian fleets - choose yer fleet! Evening soirees stand as in the past. There is substantiated rumor - There will be a Montgomery 7-11 Sailing model dinghy raffled for 'pennies' at the 2015 event - some qualifying criteria to be met: - 24 boats registered and on the line for at least one race, the total number of raffle tickets limited to the number of participating boats -$1. per (if someone would like to pony-up for an additional donation to the Leukemia/Lymphoma Society - PLEASE do.) All $24.00 (!) dollars will go to the LLS in the name of the WrinkleBoat Fleet.No registration shills Please. Additional details as the scenario gets complicated by some JD types or accountants - the boat goes when there are 24 registered and sailing - this year there were 12 boats - bring a friend and win a boat- - ANOTHER WrinkleBoat for your fleet! http://arizonayachtclub.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/2014-AYC-Birthday-Reg atta-Leukemia-Cup.html for full corrected results. Arizona Yacht Club 2014 Birthday Regatta & Leukemia Cup Wrinkle Boat ScoreMethod=Portsmouth Overall Results Sail Boat Skipper Type Total R1 R2 R3 R4 R5 R6 1 11 Paintboy Susman,Stan Montgomery 17s LC 7 2* 1 2 1 2 1 2 354 Wabi-Sabi Oberbeck,Gary Montgomery 17 TR LC 7 1 2 1 5* 1 2 3 0 Goshawk Montgomery,Jerry Sage 17 LC 15 3 4* 3 3 3 3 4 1 Air Born Scobie,Dave Sage 17 LC 19 5* 3 4 4 4 4 5 406 Sea Sprite Price,Bernard Montgomery 15 LC 22 4 5 6 2 8* 5 6 675 Jackpot McNeil,Ron Montgomery 17 LC 28 6 6 5 6 5 10*RAF 7 310 Seas the Day Kelch,Douglas Montgomery 15 35 7 7 7 8* 7 7 TLE 8 3 Alida McCowin,Phil Sage 17 36 8 8 9* 7 6 7 TLE 9 330 Pequena Bear,Paul Montgomery 17 LC 41 9 9 8 11*DNS 9 6 10 361 Justus Glesser,Louis Montgomery 15 LC 48 10 10 10 11*DNF 11 DNS 7 TLE 11= 200 Goldbrandsen,Harold Sanibel 18 LC 65 13*DNF 13 DNS 13 DNC 13 DNC 13 DNC 13 DNC 11= 7 Encore! Wissler,Bill Montgomery 17 65 13*DNF 13 DNS 13 DNC 13 DNC 13 DNC 13 DNC We had 75% Leukemia Cup fleet participation - the highest % of ALL fleets !! - the WrinkleBoat Fleet tied (again) for the largest number of fleet racing boats starting races !! A better group wasn't to be found! Performances of note: What do we say about 'PaintBoy'?? that boat just plain hauls you know what! In light air he gets 300-500 yards ahead of us! Great job gentlemen - well done Brother Stan ! (see these guys hiking out on that thing - A-types fer sure...{;>) ) The Sage 17's of Jerry Montgomery and Dave Scobie - made another sweep of the production >17 foot sector - Jerry and Dave battling it out every race and Dave sailing solo! Fastest non-modified 17's on the Lake !! Ron McNeil and crew sailing a standard rig M-17 came out swinging and strutting their stuff! Nice work! ...we think he has a Sage 17 in his sights.... Doug Kelch showed good speed and was quite consistent. Beautiful boat too! Phil McCowin in his Sage 17 'Alida' made the loooong trek down to the land of 'sunshine & shorts weather' and sailed solo, having periods of good speed and navigating the crowds at the line well. Paul Bear - all over the place - Paul actually 'finished' a race 'incorrectly' - so as to save the fleet from being TimeLimitExpired and then, like the gentleman he is - withdrew from the race JUST so the rest could finish the one SLOOOW race - what a guy! Paul thinks highly of breakfast - so much so, he watched the first race on Sunday from the restaurant! "He meant to do that!" Sal and Gail Glesser- are troopers and sponsors of the event at ALL levels! Thank You Sage/Spyderco, your support is appreciated.- speed seemed to elude some of the M-15's - segue to - Bernard Price - 2013 WICR 1st Place<17 and 2013 2nd Place Overall - couldn't find the loud pedal - He had his moments and shamed us ALL- flying his symmetric chute SOLO! - but - Next year watch out for this guy! Howie and Son - the ONLY boat representing the Potters ! Thanks for the good effort- it was great seeing you in Phoenix! - Howie had FUN after his race! The Wisslers - from Southern Arizona - said the starts and traffic were a bit disconcerting -those darn Vipers!! ;>) We hope to see you next year! Thanks for coming.Nice to meet the two of you! Kudos to ALL the crew on the boats - the AzYC and volunteers, our Race Pros and the Leukemia Cup Supporters! Additional info/ photos at TSBB Montgomery List and of course _www.wrinkleboat.webs.com_ (http://www.wrinkleboat.webs.com) Thanks to the WrinkleBoat Fleet Leukemia Cup supporters - Thank You. Take Care, Have Fun, Go Sailing - I had Fun - Thanks. GO this haz not been prufred- excyouse me! ;>)

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Mast Raising
by Henry Rodriguez 30 Jan '14

30 Jan '14

The pole shown in the picture is just a six foot 2 x 4 with the heel resting against the mast step. A *brake* winch on the pole pulls the mast up into position. The line from the winch has a snap hook on the end that clips to a bail I mounted on the mast about 7' up. A pair of temporary baby stays (3/16" line) go from the bail to the grab rails on each side to keep the mast from leaning in either direction. The top of the pole is fixed to the bow cleat with a dock line. The pole stays stationary during the whole process. The line from the winch just plucks the mast into position. The beauty of this system is that I can stop the process at any stage (to untangle a shroud or straighten a turnbuckle toggle, for example) and the mast will stay locked in position. This is the system I use on my 23' cutter Chiquita and I duplicated it for the M17. It is a homemade knock-off of the latest Macgregor system, sold by bwachts.com (http://bwyachts.com/BWYParts/PartsList.htm , part # 3418-1M0) for the Macgregor 26M. Macgregor's kit uses a round aluminum pole. There is also a version that uses a block and tackle instead of a winch but the latest and most effective, I believe, uses the brake winch. (Very important--use a real *Brake* winch with a clutch and not a regular trailer winch. A brake winch will hold the load when you let go. A trailer winch can get away from you and the handle can break your arm if you accidentally let go.) Here is a link to a site that shows how one sailor constructed a similar system: http://foleyisland.com/?category_name=restoring-a-venture-of-newport Scroll way down to get to the mast raising system. -- Henry https://picasaweb.google.com/heinzir

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Re: M_Boats: Basic Questions from an M17 Newbie
by GILASAILR＠aol.com 29 Jan '14

29 Jan '14

Henry, Just a sailing freaks version of how we does it : Fixed gooseneck. Cunningham - Harken or equivalent part #s - # 341- 29mm Airblock swivel w/becket upper block in purchase. # 2657 -40mm Fiddle swivel w/camcleat reversed, at lower position - dyneema pennant attached to upper block and upper end of dyneema to 'reef hook' (welded eye - this pennant keeps the blocks off the mast - reduces 'chewing' the anodizing.) The cunningham may also serve as forward reef. Vang - lower block attached to mast plate organizer -#2655 40mm fiddle swivel - upper block -# 2658 40mm fiddle swivel w/becket and camcleat - this upper block is attached to a dyneema tail deadended at the mast step organizer shackle (no need to disconnect) and runs over a swivel bullet block attached to boom vang tang and terminated at shackle on the #2658 to cascade the vang purchase. Backstay adjuster - #2640 triple swivel at upper and #2648 triple swivel w/becket and camcleat at lower end - this is connected to a cascade at the backstay wire -no turnbuckle is required. Now - in the interest of full disclosure - having made my living in a previous life selling /fixing/storing/ boats - be nice and support your local sail store - OR if you are a cheap a** like me, search fleaBay with the part numbers and buy'em cheeep! Headsail tension is achieved using #7 Lewmar alum at top of house each side (more on this later) through a XAS double stopper to port and triple to starboard (two 'jib' halyards to port and Main and spinnaker pole up/dn to starboard) Halyards are 1/4 vectran- covered due to Arizona UV - could be much smaller but stoppers are at max small. NO stretch - they be new one - soooo colorful and clean! Long story and I am a TERRIBLE writer - but.. my most freq./loyal crew - Craig Painter didn't like trimming the headsails to the single halyard winch to port top of cabin without a cleat - what a wimp! (just kidding) -Race crew is in companionway standing on cabin sole when we be in racerboyz modality - we decided to mount two slightly larger winches (#7's) - one each side at top of house. Crew stands in/on cabin sole in companionway to trim - this allows him to use a winch from the cabin top and cross sheet if desired. The camcleats are mounted (careful here) to the top edge of the hatch slide railwood facing inboard - WAY too convenient and comfortable for crew too. I will take pictures of the layout next time I go sail - This allows for winch at: main haly (OVERKILL), spinnaker sheet/guy operated from cabin sole (companionway) and headsail halyards. Better if you see photo of it - - this works GREAT for racing crew or cruising double handed as the sheets are no longer in the cockpit (original winches are used as barney posts (snubbing winch) for fair lead to cabin top winches. When sailing single handed, I rarely use a sail over 135% and sheet to the coaming winches as customary. Let's not go to the mainsheet and why it is used (no traveler and comes above c/l) as some folks think it is nuts BUT it is a K.I.S.S. rig if ever was! Made adjustment to termination point location 2 weeks ago and we are higher and faster and come above c/l to weather if desired. Explanation and photos if desired at later date. M-17 Monster Speed Tip for the day - our backstay comes WAAAAY off on broad reach and run. The tip of the mast moves forward approx (really- no exaggeration here -) 2.5 FEET or more! The headstay goes slack side to side approx. 20 inches of play. - We affectionately call easing the backstay on a run 'hitingt the nitrous button!' - we routinely see a speed increase of 1 knot+ and more with the mast 'flopped' forward (it needs to be moderated on a reach as the headsail luff goes VERY soft and consequently hard to fly) I guarantee better speed by doing this or your money and shipping fully refunded! - ask Craig Painter. Sails: All around jib - 135% full hoist low clew (not decksweeper - but low) and 155% dacron genoa for light air - Mainsail - Loose foot with a sail slug or loop of dyneema (1/8" works well) at the clew - Outhaul is fine at 3:1 4:1 at most (little sail) My race main has floating tack and I tie the tack, cunni and reef cringles around the mast with ---you guessed it 1/8" dyneema. For your sails Pleeze-roll 'em don't stuff or fold - pleeeeze - your sails, performance and wallet will reward you and it takes no more time to roll 'em. That's what I find to be the cats pajamas on a M-17, your mileage may vary - always wear eye protection and remember - It is HIP to wear your PFD at all times upon exiting the tow vehicle on your sailing adventure! Note: any idiot with a computer and an internet connection can become a world clASS expert on anything - you have just witnessed a case by reading this ti-rantblufflebubber story - history be made! Take Care, Have Fun, Turn,Turn,Turn, Go Sailing GO Pete Seeger -may he rest in peace - with a banjo? - right!!;>). Peace to Pete, his family and the Clearwater. In a message dated 1/28/2014 8:47:26 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, heinzir(a)gmail.com writes: 1) For you performance oriented sailors, what is the best way to get luff tension in a blow, assuming a multi-part tackle or cascade on each: do you use a downhaul on the sliding gooseneck or Cunningham tackle on the sail? Both? I don't see a point in using a winch for halyard tension on a small boat; a winch takes two hands, a tackle only one. Does anyone use a fixed gooseneck? 2) At some point, if the money gods smile on me, I would like to replace the sails. Tanbark, of course, to match Chiquita and two of my dinghies! ;-) It would be nice to have a headsail for every wind condition but, considering that money IS an object, what headsails would you consider most important? I know this depends on the type of sailing but I like to sail in all conditions from light to heavy. I prefer heavy air. I have a couple of storm jibs of different sizes that should work on the M17. I don't race (yet) so no Mylar or tape drive sails for me. But I do not like to go slower than I have to. What is the best all around, general use jib? 110% ? 135% ? And what would you recommend for a light air sail: a 150% genoa or a 150% or larger nylon drifter? As for spinnakers, if and when I can afford one it will probably be an asymmetrical. 3) Mainsail: loose foot, shelf foot, or standard? I plan on either a 4:1 or 6:1 outhaul, preferably internal. If not a loose foot, bolt rope in the boom or slugs? -- Henry https://picasaweb.google.com/heinzir

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