April 2013 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

Mastgates
by Rick Davies 12 Apr '13

12 Apr '13

I'm thinking of installing a pair of external gates from Mastgates.com on my mast, which has a double-sided slot. Anyone out there have experience with these? Seems as if they'd be a big help in reefing underway. Any comments would be appreciated. Thanks, Rick M17 #633 Lynne L

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Tiller clutches and/or autopilots?
by Dan Richman 12 Apr '13

12 Apr '13

i'm trying to decide whether to install the nifty TillerClutch, from WaveFront, on my m-17. it's a beautifully made piece of gear. but in the past, i've used similar devices and they failed to hold the boat on course. not even close, even though they were properly installed. it's not that the clutch slipped; it's that the boat's balance seemed to be thrown off too much by my moving around. i plan to add a raymarine st1000+ autopilot soon, and my thinking was that that would maintain a good course despite my movements, since it corrects itself to hold a set heading. i was thinking i'd just use the autopilot rather than the tiller clutch. but then again, the autopilot uses up power, while the clutch does not. does anyone have experience using the clutch, the autopilot, or both? if both, when do you use one and when the other? thanks for your thoughts. dan -- Dan Richman DanielARichman(a)gmail.com 5039 View Road Langley, WA 98260 USA Home: 360-221-6216 Cell: 360-949-3234

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Level Boat
by George R. Iemmolo 11 Apr '13

11 Apr '13

I believe I read somewhere that the cockpit floor was tilted toward the bow and water would drain out thru the centerboard line hole. If this is true can one use the cockpit seats as a point to determine it the boat is level while on the trailer? Or are they also tilted to the bow? I want to get the mast set up with approximately 5'-6' of rake per Jerry's rigging instructions on the MSOG site. Of what use is the cockpit drain if above is true and you are not pooped? George M15 #602 NoNameYet

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Re: M_Boats: M-23
by edarts93＠earthlink.net 11 Apr '13

11 Apr '13

Sean, If you get flamed then I'm right in line beside you! I trailer with the motor on as well. My body doesn't like trying to wrestle the motor onto the bracket. My boat has seen 20 years and many thousands of miles with no transom issues. I do, however, securely strap the motor to the transom with sturdy nylon web straps that attach to well backed padeyes thus distributing the load across a broader area of the transom as well as preventing any shock loads caused by 'bouncing' of the motor due to road irregularities. All this towing was done with the stock outboard bracket that came from Jerry on my M23 which was only through bolted through a reinforced area of the transom with 1 inch washers for backing plates. This winter I have installed a new outboard bracket (requiring new holes to be drilled of course) and added some beefier backing plates. I expect this to continue to serve well for many more years of trailering and sailing. I always removed the outboard from my M17 as well as the M15 but those are much lighter and more easily handled. We'll see if I continue to do that as I age or if I opt for motorless sailing for the olden years. I do tip my mast forward to raise it but I use an aluminum A frame that I designed and built that makes it a simple, easily handled, one man job to safely raise and lower the mast. I originally used the gin-pole method because that was how the previous owner had the boat set up. I didn't like it for a number of reasons including safety and peace of mind. My trailer has a long tongue extension that someone fabricated. It isn't as sophisticated as yours (my surge brake actuator gets dunked), but I find it essential for launching. Mark Dvorscak (also drinking milk past the expiration date and removing mattress tags) M23 Faith M15 ??? -----Original Message----- >From: Nebwest2(a)aol.com >Sent: Apr 10, 2013 11:13 PM >To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com >Subject: Re: M_Boats: M-23 > >Hey Todd... > >The Pacifics come with an extendable tongue on the >trailer....however...it's not that long. I made a second 11' extension that I swap out for the >regular extendable tongue when I launch. It has two benefits...keeps me from >having to back the truck in too far...and also...I never dunk the brake >controller....as it is on the tongue that is removed. After 8 years I have had >no brake issues that normally occur when you dunk your surge brake >controller and it gulps water in its air vent. > >I am not a fan of tipping the mast forward....and have an a-frame system >to go backwards instead. I know the original setup uses the boom as a gin >pole arrangement and goes forward and the chainplates are cut for that. I >didn't like that for a number of reasons. I have had a $50,000 mast >lowering/raising incident that involved great discomfort, almost losing my career, >surgery, and an air-e-vac ride to Las Vegas in the middle of the night (this >was not with the M23)...so I play it pretty conservative these days. The >M23's rig is very heavy compared to similarly sized boats...caution is the >word of the day when dealing with that mast. :-) > >Here...I will really shake it up and start some conversation...... I tow >with the outboard in place on the transom rather than move it to a trailer >mount or put it in the truck. Oh I will be burned a the stake for saying >that and my transom will fall off, delaminate, explode, my wife will leave me, >a thousand locusts will descend upon me ...or something...LOL... but I do > it..... and have done it with an over 100lb outboard for 25,000 miles and > around 8 years now. My back and neck appreciate it and the boat so far >does not seem to mind. It's also another time saving at the ramp, and rigging >the 23 you can use all the saving you can get. I have however, installed a >first class 4 stroke mount and it is bolted through large stainless backing >plates to distribute the load. I do not recommend that anyone else do >it....just what I do and what works for me. :-) > >Between the fact I tow with the outboard on the transom....and the fact >that I use, love, and swear by surge brakes...... OMG all the humanity....let >the flaming begin. LOL > >S > >PS > >I also ripped the tag off the mattress, swam less than 30 minutes after >eating, set my car batteries on concrete, and drank the milk after the >expiration date as well.... why? BECAUSE I AM CRAAAAAAAAAZY! ;-)

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Re: M_Boats: M-23
by bownez＠juno.com 11 Apr '13

11 Apr '13

Hi Sean, You are no more crazy than average. Dick Lane would tow his old (now my) M23 to the San Juans with the motor on the transom and never had an issue. However, his motor was smaller than yours ( around 75 lbs). I get too nervous, and remove it when towing. The M23 mast IS heavy and beefy. Almost every M23 gooseneck I have seen is bent and distorted from the raising process. Theo's was a real twisted mess. I have had mine rebuilt by a SS metal working buddy, and beefed up from stock. I take it REALLY slowly and carefully for the raising and lowering of the big stick. It's snowing like mad here. Bones, waiting for spring. ____________________________________________________________ Unusual Sleep Trick Scientists in Boston have revealed a natural sleep formula that would have everyone talking. Try it tonight. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5166bc62502c73c624fb3st02vuc

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Re: M_Boats: M-23
by Nebwest2＠aol.com 10 Apr '13

10 Apr '13

Hi Todd, Congratulations on acquiring CeeCee! Sorry I did not respond a little sooner...things have been a little haywire for 'Jo and me lately. I have a Harry Pattison main on my boat and could not be happier with it. They are not cheap sails but I like that fact that all Elliot Pattison's stuff is made right here in the US in their own loft...not overseas. Makes a big difference if you need service. Harry is gentleman through and through and knows his craft like no other. He will work with you to personally design all the aspects you want in your sails, into them and help you make the decisions. I am not a furler guy....but many are. It's just personaI preference and convenience vs performance. I removed the furler that was on Dauntless when I got her and never looked back...well, that's not exactly true. When it's windy and I am running a blade, working jib, or storm jib ...I do look back, occasionally, to see how the guys with the furlers are doing. ;-) However...when the wind slackens....they are looking back at me as I hank on another genoa or jib, while they just unfurled more canvass. ;-) With respect to trailers....I have a Pacific that I purchased new probably 8 years ago. It is galvanized and has not a spot of rust on it other than a slight surface rust on the springs. I go to the salt multiple times every year and it is dunked ( always washed afterwards). I would definintely purchase it again with a few minor changes that would be easy to make. If you get to that point let me know and I will tell you the specifics. You've got yourself a great boat. Often on these older boats the list of things to do is long and almost overwhelming. Rest assured that with this boat it'll be worth the effort. I can speak from experience having sailed the 23 in all sorts of conditions....she's not a perfect boat....but damn close. I don't believe that the perfect boat probably exists. When Lyle Hess drew boats I have heard it said that his first concern was to get you out and home safely. My experience with the M23 is that we are comfortable when others are heading for the barn....and when we finally do throw in the towel, it's usually because of the crew, not the boat. Again, congrats! and if there is anything I can assist with please don't hesitate to ask. I know the other M23 owners on here as well are also all very knowledgeable about the design and willing to help. They helped me immensely get through our rebuild. Sean M23 Dauntless

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Re: M_Boats: advice on hull to deck joint repair
by bownez＠juno.com 09 Apr '13

09 Apr '13

Hello Mark and Robbin, I have a slight leak as well on my M23, port side, at the lowermost point in the sheer. The only thing I have done up to this point is enlarge the toe rail holes so water does not pool there. Perhaps I will re-bed a number of the toe rail screws before I splash the boat, it can't hurt. Robbin, I'll be curious to know your findings after you remove the entire rail. I would prefer to not remove mine. Mark, did you have toe rails leaks as well? Did re-bedding the screws solve the issue? Thanks guys.... Bones ____________________________________________________________ Woman is 53 But Looks 25 Mom reveals 1 simple wrinkle trick that has angered doctors... http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5162beb4580a63eb45e43st01vuc

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Re: M_Boats: advice on hull to deck joint repair
by edarts93＠earthlink.net 08 Apr '13

08 Apr '13

Robbin, The hull to deck joint on the M23 is different from the M17. The deck turns down and the hull comes up inside the lip of the deck. The machine screws go from the outside of the toe rail, through the deck and hull and into the cabin. When you first brought up this project I commented that you probably only needed to find the leaking machine screws, remove and reseal them and your leak(s) will be stopped. I still believe that to be the case. I don't see any way the M23 joint could leak except where the machine screws penetrate the hull (water has to go up between the deck lip and over the hull to get inside). I took the port toerail completely off of my M23 cleaned it up, rebedded and re-installed. I won't do it that way again. If it ever starts to leak again I'll just look to see which screw is the leaker and reseal it. I think removing the toerail is completely unnecessary, but then my thoughts are only worth a penney! If you decide to proceed with the removal, I would either take the entire toerail off or do 1/2 at a time starting from the stern. I contemplated the 1/2 at a time procedure and decided against it when I did mine. The joint won't come apart on you (at least mine didn't) it is thoroughly bonded together. That's my 2 cents and worth every bit of it! Your results may vary. :) Good luck with your project. Mark Dvorscak M23 Faith M15 (awaiting paint job and new name) and former M17 owner

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(no subject)
by Todd Bradley 08 Apr '13

08 Apr '13

Hello everybody, My name is Todd Bradley and I live in the Sacramento CA area near Folsom Lake. I have been mostly just a observer of e-mails, questions and good banter for about six months now. I have really been inspired by all the helpful and friendly advice I see being exchanged and I am looking forward to being more involved. I am now a proud owner of a 1980 23' (hull # 86, currently known as Ce Cee). She is currently in Sausalito and I plan to keep her there for a while (no trailer). She needs lots of upgrades and TLC. I have been studying Sean's documented journey and I am both excited and nervous. The information archived by Sean and others will be a great help. If I can be half as diligent and dedicated to restoring my craft as Sean, then I will certainly be successful. The immediate needs for the boat are - new standing and running rigging, new outboard and new main sail, new battery (check wiring & lighting) Eventually - new galvanized trailer from Pacific (no trailer with boat), trunk & centerboard (repairs undetermined at this time), stains inside upper cabin ceiling - appears to be leaking at cabin top teak side-rails (remove & re-bed?), clean & oil interior teak & ash. Thank you to all the people that provide your support, knowledge, sharing, document preservation and advice. The journey will be better and more rewarding for it. Thank you, Todd Bradley

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Cockpit drain doesn't drain
by Dan Richman 07 Apr '13

07 Apr '13

Hi, all -- Haven't contributed to this group in a long time, and I don't see a way to search past conversations, so please forgive me if this has been asked and answered. My Montgomery 17, sail 302 (so an early one, i think -- made in 1979) does not drain its cockpit when tied up in the marina. The cockpit simply continues to fill until I pump it out. This provides just one more thing to worry about. The drain's design does not resemble in the slightest the one provided by Jerry Montgomery here ( http://www.msog.org/models/m17/m17_history.cfm#Cockpit%20Drainage) Rather, there is a single drain hole, about 1" in diameter, in the bottom of the cockpit, connected to a short length of heavy hose that is looped (as an anti-siphon, i'm guessing) and led to another hole below the waterline. Is it possible this drain was designed to somehow siphon water out when the boat is moving through the water but not when it is at rest? If not, it is totally ineffective. If so, it is only partially ineffective. I welcome any thoughts. Many thanks. -- Dan Richman DanielARichman(a)gmail.com 5039 View Road Langley, WA 98260 USA Home office: 360-221-6216 Cell: 360-949-3234

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