[math-fun] online GKP
MJCollins> This can also be found in chapter 7.5 of Graham/Knuth/Patashnik "Concrete Mathematics". WD> Which I find available online at https://notendur.hi.is/pgg/(ebook-pdf)%20-%20Mathematics%20-%20Concrete%20Ma... <https://notendur.hi.is/pgg/%28ebook-pdf%29%20-%20Mathematics%20-%20Concrete%20Mathematics.pdf> Whit This pdf is a case of getting what you pay for. Yes, it will probably teach you Raney's lemma, but it is an OCR of a book that someone has scribbled in, and is full of dangerous errors (e.g., missing minus signs) and hopeless garbles. In citing their reasons for creating the controversial Euler font for this book, GK&P cagily forgot to mention confounding piracy! However much you may dislike the Euler font, it is bliss compared to the insanely random caca from the OCRware trying to imitate it. --rwg The only thing nearly as ugly was the preview copy of his latest edition Addison Wesley sent DEK after punting their fine old printer and switching to phototypesetting. It was laughable. I wonder if anyone (in the Free World) would have paid money for it. It was why he had to drop everything and build TeX and MetaFont.
Looks like this is closer to the original: http://www.csie.ntu.edu.tw/~r97002/temp/Concrete%20Mathematics%202e.pdf On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 3:40 PM, Bill Gosper <billgosper@gmail.com> wrote:
MJCollins>
This can also be found in chapter 7.5 of Graham/Knuth/Patashnik "Concrete Mathematics".
WD> Which I find available online at https://notendur.hi.is/pgg/(ebook-pdf)%20-%20Mathematics%20-%20Concrete%20Ma... <https://notendur.hi.is/pgg/%28ebook-pdf%29%20-%20Mathematics%20-%20Concrete%20Mathematics.pdf>
Whit
This pdf is a case of getting what you pay for. Yes, it will probably teach you Raney's lemma, but it is an OCR of a book that someone has scribbled in, and is full of dangerous errors (e.g., missing minus signs) and hopeless garbles. In citing their reasons for creating the controversial Euler font for this book, GK&P cagily forgot to mention confounding piracy!
However much you may dislike the Euler font, it is bliss compared to the insanely random caca from the OCRware trying to imitate it.
--rwg
The only thing nearly as ugly was the preview copy of his latest edition Addison Wesley sent DEK after punting their fine old printer and switching to phototypesetting. It was laughable. I wonder if anyone (in the Free World) would have paid money for it. It was why he had to drop everything and build TeX and MetaFont. _______________________________________________ math-fun mailing list math-fun@mailman.xmission.com https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/math-fun
-- Mike Stay - metaweta@gmail.com http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~mike http://reperiendi.wordpress.com
On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 6:18 PM, Mike Stay <metaweta@gmail.com> wrote:
Looks like this is closer to the original: http://www.csie.ntu.edu.tw/~r97002/temp/Concrete%20Mathematics%202e.pdf
Mike Stay - metaweta@gmail.com http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~mike http://reperiendi.wordpress.com
Indeed this one is much better, but I was surprised that the Tower of Hanoi picture (1.1) is missing entirely.
James Buddenhagen
Oh, we're going backwards too; several recent technical books I have ordered (including one volume of the new Winning Ways) were apparently printed-on-demand. This absolutely destroyed the typefaces and ruined the illustrations. It was like trying to read a third-generation xerox. And of course they had the gall to charge as though it were a finely bound offset-printed edition. No book costing $50 should look like it came out of a cheap dot-matrix printer---especially when I know the care taken by the author and original publisher to make it beautiful! I complained loudly to Amazon about the Winning Ways volume; they were very understanding and promised to send me a copy of the book properly printed. The second copy was as bad as the first. On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 3:40 PM, Bill Gosper <billgosper@gmail.com> wrote:
MJCollins>
This can also be found in chapter 7.5 of Graham/Knuth/Patashnik "Concrete Mathematics".
WD> Which I find available online at https://notendur.hi.is/pgg/(ebook-pdf)%20-%20Mathematics%20-%20Concrete%20Ma... <https://notendur.hi.is/pgg/%28ebook-pdf%29%20-%20Mathematics%20-%20Concrete%20Mathematics.pdf>
Whit
This pdf is a case of getting what you pay for. Yes, it will probably teach you Raney's lemma, but it is an OCR of a book that someone has scribbled in, and is full of dangerous errors (e.g., missing minus signs) and hopeless garbles. In citing their reasons for creating the controversial Euler font for this book, GK&P cagily forgot to mention confounding piracy!
However much you may dislike the Euler font, it is bliss compared to the insanely random caca from the OCRware trying to imitate it.
--rwg
The only thing nearly as ugly was the preview copy of his latest edition Addison Wesley sent DEK after punting their fine old printer and switching to phototypesetting. It was laughable. I wonder if anyone (in the Free World) would have paid money for it. It was why he had to drop everything and build TeX and MetaFont. _______________________________________________ math-fun mailing list math-fun@mailman.xmission.com https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/math-fun
-- -- http://cube20.org/ -- http://golly.sf.net/ --
Is there more than one Winning Ways book? On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 4:19 PM, Tom Rokicki <rokicki@gmail.com> wrote:
Oh, we're going backwards too; several recent technical books I have ordered (including one volume of the new Winning Ways) were apparently printed-on-demand. This absolutely destroyed the typefaces and ruined the illustrations. It was like trying to read a third-generation xerox. And of course they had the gall to charge as though it were a finely bound offset-printed edition. No book costing $50 should look like it came out of a cheap dot-matrix printer---especially when I know the care taken by the author and original publisher to make it beautiful!
I complained loudly to Amazon about the Winning Ways volume; they were very understanding and promised to send me a copy of the book properly printed. The second copy was as bad as the first.
On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 3:40 PM, Bill Gosper <billgosper@gmail.com> wrote:
MJCollins>
This can also be found in chapter 7.5 of Graham/Knuth/Patashnik "Concrete Mathematics".
WD> Which I find available online at https://notendur.hi.is/pgg/(ebook-pdf)%20-%20Mathematics%20-%20Concrete%20Ma... <https://notendur.hi.is/pgg/%28ebook-pdf%29%20-%20Mathematics%20-%20Concrete%20Mathematics.pdf>
Whit
This pdf is a case of getting what you pay for. Yes, it will probably teach you Raney's lemma, but it is an OCR of a book that someone has scribbled in, and is full of dangerous errors (e.g., missing minus signs) and hopeless garbles. In citing their reasons for creating the controversial Euler font for this book, GK&P cagily forgot to mention confounding piracy!
However much you may dislike the Euler font, it is bliss compared to the insanely random caca from the OCRware trying to imitate it.
--rwg
The only thing nearly as ugly was the preview copy of his latest edition Addison Wesley sent DEK after punting their fine old printer and switching to phototypesetting. It was laughable. I wonder if anyone (in the Free World) would have paid money for it. It was why he had to drop everything and build TeX and MetaFont. _______________________________________________ math-fun mailing list math-fun@mailman.xmission.com https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/math-fun
-- -- http://cube20.org/ -- http://golly.sf.net/ --
_______________________________________________ math-fun mailing list math-fun@mailman.xmission.com https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/math-fun
-- Mike Stay - metaweta@gmail.com http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~mike http://reperiendi.wordpress.com
The first edition of Winning Ways was released in two volumes. The second edition was released in four. On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 4:28 PM, Mike Stay <metaweta@gmail.com> wrote:
Is there more than one Winning Ways book?
On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 4:19 PM, Tom Rokicki <rokicki@gmail.com> wrote:
Oh, we're going backwards too; several recent technical books I have ordered (including one volume of the new Winning Ways) were apparently printed-on-demand. This absolutely destroyed the typefaces and ruined the illustrations. It was like trying to read a third-generation xerox. And of course they had the gall to charge as though it were a finely bound offset-printed edition. No book costing $50 should look like it came out of a cheap dot-matrix printer---especially when I know the care taken by the author and original publisher to make it beautiful!
I complained loudly to Amazon about the Winning Ways volume; they were very understanding and promised to send me a copy of the book properly printed. The second copy was as bad as the first.
On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 3:40 PM, Bill Gosper <billgosper@gmail.com> wrote:
MJCollins>
This can also be found in chapter 7.5 of Graham/Knuth/Patashnik "Concrete Mathematics".
WD> Which I find available online at https://notendur.hi.is/pgg/(ebook-pdf)%20-%20Mathematics%20-%20Concrete%20Ma... <https://notendur.hi.is/pgg/%28ebook-pdf%29%20-%20Mathematics%20-%20Concrete%20Mathematics.pdf>
Whit
This pdf is a case of getting what you pay for. Yes, it will probably teach you Raney's lemma, but it is an OCR of a book that someone has scribbled in, and is full of dangerous errors (e.g., missing minus signs) and hopeless garbles. In citing their reasons for creating the controversial Euler font for this book, GK&P cagily forgot to mention confounding piracy!
However much you may dislike the Euler font, it is bliss compared to the insanely random caca from the OCRware trying to imitate it.
--rwg
The only thing nearly as ugly was the preview copy of his latest edition Addison Wesley sent DEK after punting their fine old printer and switching to phototypesetting. It was laughable. I wonder if anyone (in the Free World) would have paid money for it. It was why he had to drop everything and build TeX and MetaFont. _______________________________________________ math-fun mailing list math-fun@mailman.xmission.com https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/math-fun
-- -- http://cube20.org/ -- http://golly.sf.net/ --
_______________________________________________ math-fun mailing list math-fun@mailman.xmission.com https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/math-fun
-- Mike Stay - metaweta@gmail.com http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~mike http://reperiendi.wordpress.com
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Hum, the OCR of that book is not perfect, I admit. BUT : that book, it was my copy of the book I scanned that book in 2001, these where my first experiments with OCR I did the error of scanning the book with 'replacements' which can create artifacts. The technique now is to simply scan the book, do the OCR after and acrobat will put a layer of more or less recognizable text in shadow on the back, it is hard to understand why a clean copy of a scan at 600 will generate errors but it does, usually 90 % of the words are recognized which is quite sufficient most of the time but with mathematics most programs won't be able to disassemble formulas properly, that problem is still not resolved... that book is available on a directory of mine on http://www.plouffe.fr/simon/math/ under ConcreteMathematics. That copy of the book you mention is probably the result of robots gathering information here and there, I know these robots they are always at my site (30000 hits a day), scrubbing the directories for information, especially Googlebots. by the way , type <control-D> when in acrobat and look for the signature. I know this is foolish to put copyright material on the internet directly available for robots, this is intended. I am patiently waiting that one day one of those editors will knock at my door. I did that with about 300 books, finally my HP scanner just broke but I had finish my collection of books. These books are available on the <dark internet> for about 10+ years and directly on my site for 4 years... Best regards, Simon Plouffe
What would I say ? Your books are very interesting, I bought one, well, for the other books (Volumes 1 to 4a ), it is about http://www.amazon.fr/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=art+computer+programming&tag=googhy... 148 euros. The same for the Ramanujan Notebooks, very interesting, the whole collection is about what ? 1000 dollars ? http://www.amazon.fr/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?__mk_fr_FR=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C... Volume 5 is 174 euros. I can't buy these books and I earn a medium high salary in a modern country, what about the 'others' ?, I mean the x-billion people that surely can't buy them even with 1 year of salary. Well, what is the answer to that ? This pricing strategy is indecent. best regards, Simon Plouffe
On 20/09/2014 10:57, Simon Plouffe wrote:
I can't buy these books and I earn a medium high salary in a modern country, what about the 'others' ?, I mean the x-billion people that surely can't buy them even with 1 year of salary.
Well, what is the answer to that ?
This pricing strategy is indecent.
"Concrete Mathematics" costs about $56 from Amazon US, plus I think $8 to ship from the US to France where I think you're located. The minimum wage in France is about $1850/month, which means that a copy of "Concrete Mathematics" costs about one day's work for someone on the minimum French wage. -- g
The book is 58 euros on amazon.fr, 1 day for me, x-months in China, y-months in africa. many days of work in South America, 4674 roupies = 80 dollars in India and the average salary is 1570 dollars a year, 3+ billion people can't buy it, half of humans ? C'est indécent. The reason why I did that is simple. The Ramanujan Notebooks are about 60000 roupies. http://www.amazon.in/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=... 1 volume 13484 roupies, salaries = from 400000 to 900000 roupies a year but this is for engineers/computer scientists which gives (?) 1 month of salary for average people. in fact, the price is about the same or higher in other countries compared to u.s.a. but the local salaries are far from the same. best regards, Simon Plouffe
* Simon Plouffe <simon.plouffe@gmail.com> [Sep 20. 2014 13:29]:
The book is 58 euros on amazon.fr, 1 day for me,
If price matters, there are very often used books on sale: http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0201558025/ref=dp_olp_used?ie=UTF8&co...
x-months in China, y-months in africa. many days of work in South America, 4674 roupies = 80 dollars in India and the average salary is 1570 dollars a year, 3+ billion people can't buy it, half of humans ? C'est indécent.
Are companies required to sell things cheaper in poorer nations? No, perhaps except for things like medication. Of course it would be a good thing, and indeed several publisher offer books cheaper (often significantly so) in places like India (like for 3 dollars instead of 40).
The reason why I did that is simple. The Ramanujan Notebooks are about 60000 roupies.
http://www.amazon.in/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=...
1 volume 13484 roupies, salaries = from 400000 to 900000 roupies a year but this is for engineers/computer scientists which gives (?) 1 month of salary for average people.
in fact, the price is about the same or higher in other countries compared to u.s.a. but the local salaries are far from the same.
No need to look far away: when I was a student I simply could not afford the required books. So I xero-copied them in whole, cutting down the cost to almost zero.
best regards, Simon Plouffe
All that said, I have not much love left for the print publishers. Still a long way to go to the large music and film companies, how these managed to become universally hated is beyond funny. Best, jj
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There are also international editions. But the quality is highly variable. Brooks-Cole-Cenage and Macmillan are high quality, same as US edition, except maybe paperback instead of hard cover. Wiley-India is total crap. I bought one of theirs, and it had missing pages. I returned it and bought another. It had a splotch of missing text. I returned it and bought the US edition. These international editions are totally legal to purchase and resell in the US, despite warnings printed in the books that they are not for sale in the US and Canada. www.textbookrush.com boasts that they sell international editions. When looking to buy a book, I like to use www.bookfinder.com They aggregate listings from many different sellers. -- Gene
________________________________ From: Joerg Arndt <arndt@jjj.de> To: math-fun <math-fun@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2014 5:22 AM Subject: Re: [math-fun] online GKP
* Simon Plouffe <simon.plouffe@gmail.com> [Sep 20. 2014 13:29]:
The book is 58 euros on amazon.fr, 1 day for me,
If price matters, there are very often used books on sale: http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0201558025/ref=dp_olp_used?ie=UTF8&co...
x-months in China, y-months in africa. many days of work in South America, 4674 roupies = 80 dollars in India and the average salary is 1570 dollars a year, 3+ billion people can't buy it, half of humans ? C'est indécent.
Are companies required to sell things cheaper in poorer nations? No, perhaps except for things like medication.
Of course it would be a good thing, and indeed several publisher offer books cheaper (often significantly so) in places like India (like for 3 dollars instead of 40).
The reason why I did that is simple. The Ramanujan Notebooks are about 60000 roupies.
http://www.amazon.in/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=...
1 volume 13484 roupies, salaries = from 400000 to 900000 roupies a year but this is for engineers/computer scientists which gives (?) 1 month of salary for average people.
in fact, the price is about the same or higher in other countries compared to u.s.a. but the local salaries are far from the same.
No need to look far away: when I was a student I simply could not afford the required books. So I xero-copied them in whole, cutting down the cost to almost zero.
best regards, Simon Plouffe
All that said, I have not much love left for the print publishers. Still a long way to go to the large music and film companies, how these managed to become universally hated is beyond funny.
Best, jj
_______________________________________________ math-fun mailing list math-fun@mailman.xmission.com https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/math-fun
_______________________________________________ math-fun mailing list math-fun@mailman.xmission.com https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/math-fun
________________________________ From: Joerg Arndt <arndt@jjj.de> To: math-fun <math-fun@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2014 5:22 AM Subject: Re: [math-fun] online GKP
* Simon Plouffe <simon.plouffe@gmail.com> [Sep 20. 2014 13:29]:
The book is 58 euros on amazon.fr, 1 day for me,
If price matters, there are very often used books on sale: http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0201558025/ref=dp_olp_used?ie=UTF8&co...
x-months in China, y-months in africa. many days of work in South America, 4674 roupies = 80 dollars in India and the average salary is 1570 dollars a year, 3+ billion people can't buy it, half of humans ? C'est indécent.
Are companies required to sell things cheaper in poorer nations? No, perhaps except for things like medication.
Of course it would be a good thing, and indeed several publisher offer books cheaper (often significantly so) in places like India (like for 3 dollars instead of 40).
The reason why I did that is simple. The Ramanujan Notebooks are about 60000 roupies.
http://www.amazon.in/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=...
1 volume 13484 roupies, salaries = from 400000 to 900000 roupies a year but this is for engineers/computer scientists which gives (?) 1 month of salary for average people.
in fact, the price is about the same or higher in other countries compared to u.s.a. but the local salaries are far from the same.
No need to look far away: when I was a student I simply could not afford the required books. So I xero-copied them in whole, cutting down the cost to almost zero.
best regards, Simon Plouffe
All that said, I have not much love left for the print publishers. Still a long way to go to the large music and film companies, how these managed to become universally hated is beyond funny.
Best, jj
_______________________________________________ math-fun mailing list math-fun@mailman.xmission.com https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/math-fun
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* Eugene Salamin via math-fun <math-fun@mailman.xmission.com> [Sep 20. 2014 19:32]:
There are also international editions. But the quality is highly variable. Brooks-Cole-Cenage and Macmillan are high quality, same as US edition, except maybe paperback instead of hard cover. Wiley-India is total crap. I bought one of theirs, and it had missing pages. I returned it and bought another. It had a splotch of missing text. I returned it and bought the US edition.
Add Pearson/Addison-Wesley to the missing pages department: the bibliograpy is missing in my copy of W. Richard Stevens, Stephen A. Rago: {Advanced Programming in the UNIX Environment}.
These international editions are totally legal to purchase and resell in the US, despite warnings printed in the books that they are not for sale in the US and Canada. www.textbookrush.com boasts that they sell international editions.
When looking to buy a book, I like to use www.bookfinder.com They aggregate listings from many different sellers.
-- Gene
[...]
Best, jj
[...]
* Tom Rokicki <rokicki@gmail.com> [Sep 20. 2014 08:40]:
Oh, we're going backwards too; several recent technical books I have ordered (including one volume of the new Winning Ways) were apparently printed-on-demand. This absolutely destroyed the typefaces and ruined the illustrations. It was like trying to read a third-generation xerox. [...]
Here is my worst of the worst: Elwyn Berlekamp: Algebraic Coding Theory revised 1984 edition, Aegean Park Press. Looks like made with a _rotten_ xero copier. In many parts simply unreadable. Did cost me 102 Deutsche Mark back than. Berlekamp should _really_ put a copy online. I still buy books, but almost never without previewing large parts or all of it (thanks, Russian servers!). Springer-Verlag (and I guess many others) now even do hardbacks via print on demand. This means that one has to go through every page of a newly bought book to avoid finding empty or missing or misprinted pages later on. My latest purchase from Springer has some sort of "jitter" on many pages so that the resolution is certainly below 300 dpi (still perfectly readable, and price was reduced). Cambridge seems to be one of the last publishers who - actually do editing, - are not ruining quality by going for the cheapest printer available, and - do not ask for idiotic prices. Best regards, jj
Cambridge seems to be one of the last publishers who - actually do editing, - are not ruining quality by going for the cheapest printer available, and
Hmm, yes, I was most impressed by the copy of Nielsen and Chuang (Quantum Computation and Quantum Information) I purchased several months ago. It's really accessible, and I recommend it if you don't already have a copy.
- do not ask for idiotic prices.
Even more so when you get a 20% discount for being a Cambridge student! Sincerely, Adam P. Goucher
participants (9)
-
Adam P. Goucher -
Bill Gosper -
Eugene Salamin -
Gareth McCaughan -
James Buddenhagen -
Joerg Arndt -
Mike Stay -
Simon Plouffe -
Tom Rokicki