Um, I know we're on overtime for this discussion, but filtre4pole said a couple of things I wish to comment on. Scroll to next message if you could care less.
Arf! arf! :-D yeah.... are you kidding ? Not really, no... but I do take this less than very serious. ;-)
[Putting away and especially *ignore* the fundamentals (indeed, not the same world) : easy] then finding out some funny similitudes (*btw* that I don't contest ;-)) *after* the event is certainly interesting (and more amusing) for anecdotal thoughts. As you can see, I agree wholeheartedly.
But building any kind of "connection theory" upon that is much bolder ...and eventually ridiculous: because people who *absolutely* (I still don't see why) want to put Kraftwerk and the punks into the same bag must have forgotten (or mistaken...) some major facts: You have this habit of mixing the words "my opinion" with "the facts", it is slightly annoying. Facts, you will agree, are measurable, objective pieces of info, like "Kraftwerk released TEE in 1977" or "punk was big in UK in 1976-7". We can't reconstruct the music scene of 1977 so none of us can claim to know EXACTLY what was going on. Personally, I like my theories, I even prefer them to yours, but I claim no copyright of truth in this matter, and you shouldn't either.
Kraftwerk are subtle *elite* electro avant-garde artists of all time Here is where I disagree with you, because Kraftwerk are not "elite" in any other way than their fans making them out to be so. They have repeatedly reserved themselves from any elitist thinking, they refuse to comment on the influence their music has had on modern popular culture, and as Florian Schneider said in an interview with Norwegian music paper Puls in 1982, "I can assure you our music is not meant for round table conferences". Elite as in very good; absolutely. But elite as in "we do something you couldn't"? No, that's jazz music. Which I dismiss on the whole. I prefer punk.
when punks were just... temporal rock'n punk and jerks! ;-)) Please, how do you want to "compare/connect"? Obviously, "punks were (...) jerks" is opinion, not fact, as it would depend who you ask whether it would be agreed upon or not... Though I'm sure all punks would agree to some extent. And I compared and connected enough I think in my previous mail.
And I STILL have this funny feeling I forgot what my point was. O well. oystein _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail snakker ditt språk! http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/sbox?rru=dasp/lang.asp - Få Hotmail på norsk i dag
le 28/08/2003 10:10, Oystein Moe à oyst1@hotmail.com a écrit :
Um, I know we're on overtime for this discussion, but filtre4pole said a couple of things I wish to comment on.
If you want... ;-) though I really thought this (good for *lol*) topic was quite closed... well...
[Putting away and especially *ignore* the fundamentals (indeed, not the same world) : easy] then finding out some funny similitudes (*btw* that I don't contest ;-)) *after* the event is certainly interesting (and more amusing) for anecdotal thoughts. As you can see, I agree wholeheartedly.
*dubitative sigh*
But building any kind of "connection theory" upon that is much bolder ...and eventually ridiculous: because people who *absolutely* (I still don't see why) want to put Kraftwerk and the punks into the same bag must have forgotten (or mistaken...) some major facts: You have this habit of mixing the words "my opinion" with "the facts", it is slightly annoying.
? sorry, I have no hand here... you (should) know facts and opinions are often "mixed" anyway... (then "forgetting" or *mistaking* context and facts as I said, could *bias* your opinion... ;-)...)
Facts, you will agree, are measurable, objective pieces of info, like "Kraftwerk released TEE in 1977" or "punk was big in UK in 1976-7".
Yep ! I definitely agree ! :-) Another *fact* example? .. "Kraftwerk electro world ISN'T punk rock'n challenging world" ( = *in fact* Kraftwerk have nothing to do with punk, whether a *connection* exists in your imagination or not...)
We can't reconstruct the music scene of 1977 so none of us can claim to know EXACTLY what was going on.
Agreed, once again!... therefore why do you absolutely need to speculate there with that thin "connection theory" ???
Personally, I like my theories,
of course (as if I didn't guess)... ;-)
I even prefer them to yours
? hum... but I have no theory about that, I've never tried to compare/connect Kraftwerk to punk: I only commented on a laughable insignificant "punk and Kw connection theory" born in the mind of a few 'need-to-write-something' journalists and I clearly explained why such a theory might be a little bold (and eventually absolutely ridiculous...) -nothing more- :-)
Kraftwerk are subtle *elite* electro avant-garde artists of all time Here is where I disagree with you, because Kraftwerk are not "elite" in any other way than their fans making them out to be so.
(*btw* I know people who are not very K'-fans and still consider them as *elite* so...) *curious disagreement*: don't we share the same appreciation about Kraftwerk (?) It really seems that you do underrate *too much* Kraftwerk as you certainly overrate punk... :-)
Elite as in very good; absolutely. But elite as in "we do something you couldn't"? No,...
A correlation must exist on both sides/senses: *LQ* could be done by everybody... whereas *HQ* could be done only by the most talented (a few) people (=elite). And the "everybody can do it/do it yourself/easy-to-play, etc..." philosophy can't help jerks (like punks and others) to do great things... (*at least* IF they don't have a high clever attitude (bad) *and* are not talented enough, then I'm afraid they could only stay... jerks).
They have repeatedly reserved themselves from any elitist thinking, [...]
Yes, of course, (and so what?) *btw* I think modesty is amongst their good (best) qualities. But Kraftwerk always like to *play* with that - the typical K'-irony that I enjoy so much! :-)) : it seems to be "easy" (apparently), but in fact it's more complex and so much harder to do than people (like you maybe!) could commonly imagine... And yes, despite their fine modesty and their confusing but subtle irony, Kraftwerk are brilliant *elite* on both "very good"-sense (though, you would say it's matter of taste) and "do something you couldn't"-sense (obvious fact).
when punks were just... temporal rock'n punk and jerks! ;-)) Please, how do you want to "compare/connect"? Obviously, "punks were (...) jerks" is opinion, not fact,
Nope! it's a fact! ...at least according to: 1/ the definition given by punks themselves (*afair* I saw earlier this year on french tv Malcom McLaren who clearly confirmed that) 2/ all the crappy "music" (at best...) punks produced (that confirms the first point). (I know, you would say it's also matter of taste, and if you're a punk-fan, I guess you would always disagree...).
And I compared and connected enough I think in my previous mail.
indeed, *enough* could be too much for odd comparaisons/connections like in the naïve imaginative 'kw-to-punk'-theory *imho* ;-)) Maybe, perhaps, ;-) _ /o o\ Filtre4Pole \ ~ / I I - -
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