From: "Glenn Folkvord - Hyperion Media" <glenn@folkvord.net>
Music as a phenomenon in society has been studied in depth many times everywhere.
sure , it has , but i'm currently ONLY interested in the link between kw & their female listeners in this specific case , so GENERAL statistics of a certain country that's not the one i & the original questioner ( antje , if i recall right ??? ;-) come from , simply DOESN'T apply to me nor to her or ANY other male or female german kw fan !!!
I have read about this topic in specialist magazines in the past and found an article in the American Keyboard magazine that also mentioned it.
well ... i highly suppose that the american keyboard magazine hasn't asked female german kw fans ( nor even german females in general !!! ) about what kind of music they like , so this article simply is of NO_IMPORTANCE to us in this specific case , sorry !!!
It's a common misunderstanding (and an easy misunderstanding to make, I dont blame you :-) to take personal experiences as statistical info.
fyi : i've NEVER said that my personal experiences are anythin' like "statistical info" of any kind , so i dunno where a misunderstandin' comes into play in this specific case , dear glenn !!! *sly_grin* ;-) i've jus' stated what i've experienced in my & my female friends' cases to *_ADD_* to this debate !!! ;-) nothin' more or less than this !!! *G+* ;-)
Looking at bigger surveys than those done by you among your friends, I bet the results would be different.
of course , but such a survey's result printed in an american keyboard magazine is of ABSOLUTELY_NO_VALUE_NOR_IMPORTANCE for us german kw fans ... no matter , if we are male or female - simply because i bet that NONE of us were asked , right !? *slyest_grin* ;-))) in other words : if ONLY american citizens were asked , it ONLY applies to them & if ONLY german citizens were asked , it ONLY applies to them etc. !!! ;-)
Also, a statement like "I saw many girls at the latest Kraftwerk/TD/Jarre/Vangelis concert" does not necessarily prove that those females are fans. They could be tagging along their boyfriend.
damned right , glenn !!! *BWG* ;-)))
On the other hand, it is more difficult to spot female fans of any genre or artist because:
* Women are more than men able to enjoy / "be fans of" music without owning CDs (ownership of physcial objects appeal more to men than women) * Women tend to not "collect" things as much as men - collecting stuff is to a large extent a male activity * Women tend to communicate more than men on an emotional level and therefore do not need so many visual aids (posters, merchandise, souvenirs) as men - men are more visually inclined than women * Women are often quiter than men and voice their appreciation for something less than men in (subconcious) fear of being rejected for their preferences. Men dont care if other men laugh at their preference for "geeky computer music"
these are indeed some interestin' "observations" !!! *another_sly_grin* ;-)
These things are based on sociological studies and apply *in general* (exceptions exist) on a large scale.
yes , but ONLY to those people in the country or countries they were actually made ( see my explanation above ) !!! *slyest_grin_again* ;-)))
You and your friends may not be like the above but then again, you and your friends may not represent the entire population of a country.
damned right , but as ABSOLUTELY_NOBODY "represents" the entire population of a country , it can ( or better to say MUST_!!! ) ONLY be seen as an example for ONE specific country , like america ( or the u. s. of a. , to be more exact ;-) , in your case !!! ;-) anyway ... as long as nobody points me into the direction of A_SPECIFIC_SURVEY about male & female kw fans from germany , glenn's example is of NO_USE for me & antje , because it simply DOESN'T apply to us german kw fans , sorry !!! however ... many greetinx , oh jay ;-) *~\^/~*
----- Original Message ----- From: "Oh Jay" <oh_jay@freenet.de>
sure , it has , but i'm currently ONLY interested in the link between kw & their female listeners in this specific case , so GENERAL statistics of a certain country that's not the one i & the original questioner ( antje , if i recall right ??? ;-) come from , simply DOESN'T apply to me nor to her or ANY other male or female german kw fan !!!
Uh, yes it does, because Kraftwerk's music is not unique is a sociological sense. Musical yes, sociological no. In general, German females are pretty much the same as females in any other similar country. Their background, education, culture, influences are to a large extent the same. Beside, you say "link between kw & their female listeners", but that is not what we are discussing, we (at least I am) are talking about *general female population* and their listening habits. If a woman is already a KW listener, she it outside the demographic we are talking about. So we are actually talking about "link between kw & their potential female listeners" :-)
well ... i highly suppose that the american keyboard magazine hasn't asked female german kw fans ( nor even german females in general !!! ) about what kind of music they like , so this article simply is of NO_IMPORTANCE to us in this specific case , sorry !!!
Again, I am not talking about *German* females! The article in Keyboards is NOT a survey, it was an interview with a known musician who had observed that females in general are not interested in "technological" music. His observation is valid for the American female population (and they are quite a few you know) and therefore supports the general notion that females in Western countries are generally less interested in synth music than males.
fyi : i've NEVER said that my personal experiences are anythin' like "statistical info" of any kind , so i dunno where a misunderstandin' comes into play in this specific case , dear glenn !!! *sly_grin* ;-)
I just meant, if someone says "but all my female friends like Kraftwerk so I think every female likes Kraftwerk" is a common misunderstanding of how individuals represent or not the general population.
of course , but such a survey's result printed in an american keyboard magazine is of ABSOLUTELY_NO_VALUE_NOR_IMPORTANCE for us german kw fans ...
Yes it has. I did not refer to an *American* survey. The surveys I have read are from Europe. If, and only if, any survey was *printed* in Keyboards it could still be valid if it was a *European* survey. It's not where you print it that matters, but where the survey was made.
no matter , if we are male or female - simply because i bet that NONE of us were asked , right !? *slyest_grin* ;-)))
People who are already KW fans are outside the target demographics. The question is: "Who dont you listen to Kraftwerk?". It would be futile to ask this to long time fans that are member of the list :-) When you plan to find out why females dont like KW, you have to ask those that are not fans. People will answer "because I dont like this music" and when you analyze why they dont like this music, you will find several factors of which one is "lack of lyrics" or "lack of (good) melody". It can be argued that many (not all) females do not "understand" a melody played by synths, it should be sung by a person for them to appreciate it as a good melody. This is not so difficult to understand, if you believe than men is interested in "things" and women are interested in "people". Again, this is a general statement, please any females out there - dont take offense.
in other words : if ONLY american citizens were asked , it ONLY applies to them & if ONLY german citizens were asked , it ONLY applies to them etc. !!! ;-)
Depends on what you ask them. The human brain works pretty much the same all over the world. When it comes to who likes what kind of music, many factors are important but since Germany and USA are pretty much the same in a sociological sense (wether you like it or not, that is fact) an American study of this matter would be highly valid for Germans. But again, the studies I actually did refer to, where European. Glenn
Hello, i've been on this group for about 3 months, but it's the first time I post a message. I only wanted to gret everyone and ask if there's someone from Italy in the group, male or female, it does'nt matter ______________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Musica: notizie, recensioni, classifiche, speciali multimediali http://it.yahoo.com/mail_it/foot/?http://it.music.yahoo.com/
9/2/02 4:55:05 AM, "Oh Jay" <oh_jay@freenet.de> wrote:
sure , it has , but i'm currently ONLY interested in the link between kw & their female listeners in this specific case , so GENERAL statistics of a certain country that's not the one i & the original questioner ( antje , if i recall right ??? ;-) come from , simply DOESN'T apply to me nor to her or ANY other male or female german kw fan !!!
No one is going to waste time to do a study on only one band, get real. That is one of the most asinine comments Ive heard lately. Signed, omegaChance http://www.mp3.com/omegaChance
hi everybody, i just wanna say i find this topic "Femme machine" very interesting. it never crossed my mind that women would like other music then men. if there are any members on this list who can post some sources regarding this kind of research that would be very interesting (i know some people already said you could find it easily on the web but i think it's always better to be "guided" to information by someone who already has a littel background) only 20 days before the first concert... g omegaChance wrote:9/2/02 4:55:05 AM, "Oh Jay" wrote:
sure , it has , but i'm currently ONLY interested in the link between kw & their female listeners in this specific case , so GENERAL statistics of a certain country that's not the one i & the original questioner ( antje , if i recall right ??? ;-) come from , simply DOESN'T apply to me nor to her or ANY other male or female german kw fan !!!
No one is going to waste time to do a study on only one band, get real. That is one of the most asinine comments Ive heard lately. Signed, omegaChance http://www.mp3.com/omegaChance _______________________________________________ Kraftwerk mailing list Kraftwerk@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kraftwerk http://www.dertaschenrechner.tk --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes
To quote Geert Lemmens:
i just wanna say i find this topic "Femme machine" very interesting. it never crossed my mind that women would like other music then men.
Ok. Not to bash on Geert here, who most likely is a charming fellow, but this really ticks me off. When will some people learn that the root of all inequalities is due to the constant labelling of things MALE and/or FEMALE? Will you bloody stop doing that already? Of course there are women that loves Kraftwerk. Of course there are men that hate Kraftwerk. Of course there are Kraftwerk fans who hate turtles. Of course there are women who love Ralf Hütter. Just because of the above "facts", Wolfgang doesn't necessarily have to have an opinion on Kraftwerk at all, and he doesn't automatically become a hater of turtles and moaning for Ralf's love, does he?? Silly example, of course.. I just wanted to grab your attention. There simply is no statistical difference between men and women unless you want one to exist, no matter topic. Re-read that line slowly. With statistics you can create any "truth" and "facts" that you want; it's just a matter of tinkering enough with the data sets and the "tuning" of the research. Paranoia? Bullshit, I know this stuff. Been doing it professionally for years and years. Men and women are both human. Humans have differences inbetween them. Let's settle it there, shall we? But please stop labelling things in male and female wordings... It bothers me SO much. :Peo: (who is probably over-sensitive due to him recently quitting nicotine in all forms)
participants (6)
-
Geert Lemmens -
Giuliano Filipponi -
Glenn Folkvord - Hyperion Media -
Oh Jay -
omegaChance -
Per-Olof Karlsson