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Re: Re: [Kraftwerk] acetate (Autobahn tape)
by Dirk Matten 30 Mar '02

30 Mar '02

The master-tape in not the 16-track-tape. It is the 2-track-tape with the mixdown. Dirk Matten kraftwerk(a)mailman.xmission.com schrieb am 30.03.02: > Markus Berzborn schrieb am 30.03.2002 10:43 Uhr MEZ: > > > I don't know the open reel tape price in 1974, but with a high > > quality tape (say Maxell XL-1) today, I'd just save about 20 Euros by reducing > > the speed. > > Okay, I wasn't there, too. > But around 1973 I jobbed in a recording studio as a trainee, and I remember > quite well that this professional tape was not the kind of tape you can buy > at Karstadt's. > I don't remember the prices for professional 16-track-tape, but according to > an interview with Heinz-Gerd Lütticke from the mid-seventies (he was then > independent producer and promoter after leaving EMI), the price of a master > tape ranged around 500 Deutschmarks - and these tapes didn't run 45 minutes, > so you needed five or six of those to make a complete album. > > swingin' eastern! > jan > > > -- > feel free to visit > http://home.t-online.de/home/reetze > http://www.felix-bloch-erben.de > > > > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Kraftwerk mailing list > Kraftwerk(a)mailman.xmission.com > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kraftwerk ______________________________________________________________________________ Ohne Risiko spielend zum Börsenguru werden. Haben Sie schon eine Strategie? Spekulieren und tolle Preis gewinnen http://boersenspiel.web.de

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Re: Re: [Kraftwerk] Re: acetate (Autobahn tape)
by Dirk Matten 30 Mar '02

30 Mar '02

kraftwerk(a)mailman.xmission.com schrieb am 30.03.02: > Oh Jay schrieb am 30.03.2002 13:23 Uhr MEZ: > > > > btw : also interestin' is the fact that conrad "connie" plank WASN'T > > credited on the album cover as "producer" , but ONLY as "sound engineer" !!! > > You're right, I have to concede (brain cells are going fast ...). But we > should have learned that it doesn't mean too much what's printed on a > Kraftwerk record sleeve. There's also printed without any specification that > Wolfgang did the electronic percussion, but ... ahem ... wasn't there a > lawsuit? He played electronic drums on the LP Autobahn, not on the track Autobahn. > > We simply don't know the various roles ... > > jan > > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Kraftwerk mailing list > Kraftwerk(a)mailman.xmission.com > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kraftwerk ______________________________________________________________________________ Ohne Risiko spielend zum Börsenguru werden. Haben Sie schon eine Strategie? Spekulieren und tolle Preis gewinnen http://boersenspiel.web.de

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Re: Re: Re: [Kraftwerk] Re: acetate (Autobahn tape)
by Dirk Matten 30 Mar '02

30 Mar '02

kraftwerk(a)mailman.xmission.com schrieb am 30.03.02: > kraftwerk(a)mailman.xmission.com schrieb am 30.03.02: > > Dirk Matten wrote: > > > > > > kraftwerk(a)mailman.xmission.com schrieb am 30.03.02: > > > > From: "Dirk Matten" <elektropolis(a)web.de> > > > > > > > > > Drumming was made by Ralf Hütter and Florian Schneider-Esleben. > > > > > > > > that's indeed very interestin' , simply because on my copy of "autobahn" , > > > > wolfgang flür was credited for "percussion" on the album cover !? > > > > *slightly_puzzled_look* :-o > > > > > > As far as I kow Flür did percussion on other tracks of the album, but not on Autobahn. > > > > There was also Klaus Roeder, playing violin (probably on Mitternacht), > > and guitar. Autobahn is a much acoustical piece. The bass rhytm, especially > > in the beginning I think is a guitar (Roeder?) pom pompom pom pom pompom etc. :) > It's the MiniMoog! Klaus Röder did not play on the track Autobahn. Ralf Hütter played the guitar. > > > There's lots of flute, and at the end of Autobahn you can hear a lot of > > mouth organ... No moth organ, it's an electric organ with backwards effect, which can be done if the organ is processed dy a synthesizer (env.-gen. "attack-time" ca. 0,5 sec > > > > Klaus Roeder does seem to have vanished from the Autobahn credits, > > at least on my CD. On the old album cover he's with R&F&W in the back > > of the beetle. Also, Mitternacht on the CD is shorter than the old > > lp-version. > > > > Rick Jansen > > -- > > Web: http://www.euronet.nl/~rja/ > > email: rja(a)euronet.nl > > > > Any spam mail sent to me results in counter measures. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Kraftwerk mailing list > > Kraftwerk(a)mailman.xmission.com > > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kraftwerk > > > ______________________________________________________________________________ > Handeln wie die Profis, ganz ohne Risiko. Steigen Sie ein und erleben > Sie Berg- und Talfahrt an den Börsen unter http://boersenspiel.web.de > > > _______________________________________________ > Kraftwerk mailing list > Kraftwerk(a)mailman.xmission.com > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kraftwerk ______________________________________________________________________________ Ohne Risiko spielend zum Börsenguru werden. Haben Sie schon eine Strategie? Spekulieren und tolle Preis gewinnen http://boersenspiel.web.de

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Re: Re: [Kraftwerk] Re: acetate (Autobahn tape)
by Dirk Matten 30 Mar '02

30 Mar '02

kraftwerk(a)mailman.xmission.com schrieb am 30.03.02: > Dirk Matten wrote: > > > > kraftwerk(a)mailman.xmission.com schrieb am 30.03.02: > > > From: "Dirk Matten" <elektropolis(a)web.de> > > > > > > > Drumming was made by Ralf Hütter and Florian Schneider-Esleben. > > > > > > that's indeed very interestin' , simply because on my copy of "autobahn" , > > > wolfgang flür was credited for "percussion" on the album cover !? > > > *slightly_puzzled_look* :-o > > > > As far as I kow Flür did percussion on other tracks of the album, but not on Autobahn. > > There was also Klaus Roeder, playing violin (probably on Mitternacht), > and guitar. Autobahn is a much acoustical piece. The bass rhytm, especially > in the beginning I think is a guitar (Roeder?) pom pompom pom pom pompom etc. :) It's the MiniMoog! > There's lots of flute, and at the end of Autobahn you can hear a lot of > mouth organ... > > Klaus Roeder does seem to have vanished from the Autobahn credits, > at least on my CD. On the old album cover he's with R&F&W in the back > of the beetle. Also, Mitternacht on the CD is shorter than the old > lp-version. > > Rick Jansen > -- > Web: http://www.euronet.nl/~rja/ > email: rja(a)euronet.nl > > Any spam mail sent to me results in counter measures. > > _______________________________________________ > Kraftwerk mailing list > Kraftwerk(a)mailman.xmission.com > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kraftwerk ______________________________________________________________________________ Handeln wie die Profis, ganz ohne Risiko. Steigen Sie ein und erleben Sie Berg- und Talfahrt an den Börsen unter http://boersenspiel.web.de

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Re: [Kraftwerk] Re: acetate (Autobahn tape)
by Dirk Matten 30 Mar '02

30 Mar '02

kraftwerk(a)mailman.xmission.com schrieb am 30.03.02: > From: "Dirk Matten" <elektropolis(a)web.de> > > > Drumming was made by Ralf Hütter and Florian Schneider-Esleben. > > that's indeed very interestin' , simply because on my copy of "autobahn" , > wolfgang flür was credited for "percussion" on the album cover !? > *slightly_puzzled_look* :-o As far as I kow Flür did percussion on other tracks of the album, but not on Autobahn. > > btw : also interestin' is the fact that conrad "connie" plank WASN'T > credited on the album cover as "producer" , but ONLY as "sound engineer" !!! > :-o That's right: sound engineer > > what's the TRUE story behind that ... erm ... "misinformation" , dirk ??? > *indeed_very_curious_by_now* > > however ... many easter greetinx to y' all , fellow kw fan(atic)s !!! *VBS* > :-))) > > oh jay ;-) > > *~\^/~* > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Kraftwerk mailing list > Kraftwerk(a)mailman.xmission.com > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kraftwerk ______________________________________________________________________________ Handeln wie die Profis, ganz ohne Risiko. Steigen Sie ein und erleben Sie Berg- und Talfahrt an den Börsen unter http://boersenspiel.web.de

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Re: Re: Re: [Kraftwerk] acetate (Autobahn tape)
by Dirk Matten 30 Mar '02

30 Mar '02

Conny Plank used a Scully tape machine with 7.5 ips and 15 ips. He had two of these machines. He prefered 7.5 ips. It was recorded without noise reduction. Dirk Matten kraftwerk(a)mailman.xmission.com schrieb am 29.03.02: > > It's not a copy of the master, it's the generation before the master-tape, > > which has single ended noise reduction. > > Just curious: > > What tape machine and what brand of tape was used for the original recording? > I understand from your website that your copy is 7.5 ips 2-track, but how was > the music originally recorded? 15 ips multi-track? > Who decided that a noise reducing aftertreatment was necessary, and why wasn't > Dolby A or something like this used in the first place (Not that I'm a great > admirer of companders.)? > > > _______________________________________________ > Kraftwerk mailing list > Kraftwerk(a)mailman.xmission.com > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kraftwerk ________________________________________________________________ Keine verlorenen Lotto-Quittungen, keine vergessenen Gewinne mehr! Beim WEB.DE Lottoservice: http://tippen2.web.de/?x=13

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Schwingungen Award
by Lord Ruthven 30 Mar '02

30 Mar '02

Here's a report on Winfried Trenkler's "Schwingungen" award in Duisburg. Kraftwerk and Neu! are mentioned there. (German language.) http://www.taz.de/pt/2002/03/30/a0232.nf/text.ges,1 jan _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

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Re: Re: [Kraftwerk] acetate (Autobahn tape)
by Dirk Matten 30 Mar '02

30 Mar '02

kraftwerk(a)mailman.xmission.com schrieb am 30.03.02: > > >> Or a matter of economics? Record at half the speed and you have double > > >> the amount of tape! > > > > > > Sure, but for a professional studio, this shouldn't be an issue! > > > > Oh-oh, don't forget: Kraftwerk had no money at that time. Conny Plank was > > not their engineer, he was the producer of Autobahn, so probably it was HIS > > money they spent! > > Oh, come on, that would mean that Conny Plank was on the verge of bankruptcy, > wouldn't it. I don't know the open reel tape price in 1974, but with a high > quality tape (say Maxell XL-1) today, I'd just save about 20 Euros by reducing > the speed. And if this was an issue, I wouldn't even be able to offer some cups > of coffee to the musicians in the studio. But maybe you're right, I can't verify > it as I wasn't there - it just seems to me that what Dirk meant was that Conny > Plank chose 7.5 ips for sonic reasons. *************************** Quite right. Kraftwerk had money and paid for the rent of Conny's 16-track-recorder. They did the basic tracks at Kling Klang. It was played by Ralf Hütter and Florian Schneider-Esleben. Sound effects and mountig "Autobahn" was done by Conny Plank when I was visting him. I was present, when Autobahn was born. Dirk Matten, ZeitZeuge > > > _______________________________________________ > Kraftwerk mailing list > Kraftwerk(a)mailman.xmission.com > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kraftwerk ______________________________________________________________________________ Die Nummer, die sich jeder merkt: Ihre 01212 Wunschrufnummer von WEB.DE! Jetzt sichern: http://freemail.web.de/?mc=990001

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Kraftwerk in clubs
by Oleg Rekutin 30 Mar '02

30 Mar '02

Well, I just got back from a Plaid show in Cambridge, MA. The opening DJ, Mira Calix, played Kraftwerk's "Numbers" (a slight remix, with a stronger kick drum and stretched out lots), and a lot of people in the crowd were loving it. There was a moment of cheers when people recognized the track coming on. I know I was loving it! One, two. Also, Kraftwerk was played on another tour from Warp Records, at which I was present. I think they do this pretty much every time. - Oleg

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Re: Re: [Kraftwerk] acetate (Autobahn tape)
by Dirk Matten 29 Mar '02

29 Mar '02

It's not a copy of the master, it's the generation before the master-tape, which has single ended noise reduction. It is the original of the music Kraftwerk played. What ca be better? Dirk Matten kraftwerk(a)mailman.xmission.com schrieb am 29.03.02: > Rob Evans wrote: > > > > Rick Jansen <rja(a)euronet.nl> wrote: > > > > >But... this thing wasn't even touched by Kraftwerk... It doesn't even > > >contain something really special, apart from a bit better sound quality. > > > > I remember, Rick, you are not a big fan of the Autobahn album..and I must > > confess neither am I, but there are crazy people who would kill to get hold > > of the Autobahn master tape and we have to remember that. They follow no > > logic. > > ??? I really love Autobahn... I remember it being played on the radio, > and it's effect on me, (I was 14 then) I had never heard such sounds, but > of course, they didn't say which band this was. Verry frustrating. It was > the first album I bought, even before I had a record player. Am I not a big > fan of Autobahn? :-) > > What I object to is that this tape is blown up to proportions it doesn't > have (for me at least). It's a copy of something that was sent to the record > company for production. It's not a different mix. It's not the master tape > either. (A copy of a master isn't a master by definition.) It's more like a > first print of a famous photo. Nice, but not worth 4 figures. Maybe in lire > (last day tomorrow!). > > Rick Jansen > -- > Web: http://www.euronet.nl/~rja/ > email: rja(a)euronet.nl > > Any spam mail sent to me results in counter measures. > > _______________________________________________ > Kraftwerk mailing list > Kraftwerk(a)mailman.xmission.com > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kraftwerk ________________________________________________________________ Keine verlorenen Lotto-Quittungen, keine vergessenen Gewinne mehr! Beim WEB.DE Lottoservice: http://tippen2.web.de/?x=13

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