delerium was around in 87? no shit. out of curiousity, was their sound labeled as "new age" at the time? that genre still cracks me up to this day... especially when i see aging new wavers selling their analog synths on ebay saying "good for rock or new age, whichever you do". i guess eno would be a logical place to start, if you want to talk about trance. i remember as late as 96, trance was basically defined to most people as ambient with a beat. funny, considering by 95 jackpot records was releasing some very polished trance tracks that could have very well been the ethos for modern oakenferrytiesto-ism (not to speak ill of jackpot - they STILL rock!). to prove my point here's a description of trance, as a genre, from an old mod site from around 96 or 97: "A form usually based on acid style samples and unusual melodies. Similar to ambient, but more often the overall tone is more disorganized and hits a spot much deeper in the gut. Usually very long playing times are the order of the day. Recommendations include watching a weird light show alongside the sounds; meditative." and another: "Very similar to both ambient and acid-house, trance is softer on the ears and body than most techno, but still keeps you dancing (unlike most ambient, where the effects are more profound if you SIT DOWN and listen). It's designed to try and take you, literally, into another world." ah yes, the good ol days. oh, and just to drive my point further, here's something i dug up from hyperreal.org, describing some experiences a promoter had throwing an on-campus rave back in the very very early 90s: "We did have one problem at Sundial III...I just told people over email "whoever wants to spin, just show up." I didn't realize that only one DJ spun "fast" stuff, and a few hours of trance didn't make for the best dancing, and that put some people off. If I had to do it again, I would have tried to find more breakbeat, hardcore, and tribal DJs and left the trance for late in the night when people are tired of dancing anyway. It was kind of sad, because the trance DJs spun really good stuff to listen to, but it just didn't raise the energy level of the people there very much." trance with no energy, huh? last i checked most trance djs keep their sets around 137-142, hardly what i'd consider slow. and now that i think about it, the trance dj could have very well been playing "last train to trancentral" given the description. i wouldnt have considered eno the founder, but if trance was once a kissing cousin of ambient it makes sense. so basically, i'm agreeing with you...! but did eno actually release anything, calling it trance? if not, the question remains: were the klf helping to found a new genre when they called their music trance? or were they just following a trend that a number of others had already started? THERES a better question! (man, we could teach a class on this shit!) ---------- Original Message ------------- Subject: RE: [KLF] origins of trance Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 13:43:58 -0600 From: "RMStringer" <rmstringer@netnitco.net> To: <klf@mailman.xmission.com> Can anyone say ENO??? I always thought that the genre befell from him and the movement in the early 80's in the Detroit area. The experimental music has been around for a while and I think that it evolved. I may be wrong. I think the experimental evolved in Trance. Delerium did some Kool stuff in 1987..Now look at them. Please feel free to debate. RMStringer " You Have No Conscience And IT Seems You Never Will" Nothing Stays - Cyberaktif -----Original Message----- From: klf-admin@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:klf-admin@mailman.xmission.com]On Behalf Of tom maclean iii Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 12:12 PM To: klf@mailman.xmission.com Subject: [KLF] origins of trance being into trance, and watching it morph from an ultra-repetitive niche of techno into the biggest pop dance movement since disco, i've often wondered where it all started. a lot of people point to sven vath's "accident in paradise" as the first point in which techno became trance, having been released around 1992 or so. but what about the klf? the pure trance series, which first hit streets in 1988, could have easily been the first collection of tracks ever released that claimed to be trance... but the burning question remains - did they in turn inspire what eventually came to be widely defined as trance or was their style simply pingeon-holed as acid house and left at that? are the klf the true forgotten fathers of trance, or was their influence isolated to the pop world alone. i was 11 when 3am eternal hit number 1, and i've been stuck stateside my whole life, so my perspective is limited. perhaps some of you ultra-oldskool brits can help me out here... cr3.chromix.tom.maclean.iii -- http://stereoboom.com "never buy things in dreams. you'll just wake up empty handed." _______________________________________________ KLF mailing list KLF@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/klf _______________________________________________ KLF mailing list KLF@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/klf cr3.chromix.tom.maclean.iii -- http://stereoboom.com "never buy things in dreams. you'll just wake up empty handed."