I have more time on my hands than I expected so I've already replied to the post I read this morning over on the Yahoo group. Here's my reply. I really should learn not to get so involved in these petty list debates. Ah well. Stuart. *** --- In klf@y..., David Bryant <dave_bryant23@y...> wrote:

Whilst I accept it's technically none of my business

Hold that thought...

if people want to fork out fifty pounds (or whatever) for counterfeit goods which are absolutely rife at the minute, I'd still rather people shifted such things to e-bay where there are at least some regulations and signed agreements to trade.

Then why not just say "I'd rather people shifted such things to e-bay" as opposed to 'I completely forbid all mention of it'? It's over-reactionary.

Here, if someone were to get ripped off, there would be no come back at all, and I would feel a bit shitty about that if I were able to issue warnings and put a stop to it in the first instance. Obscure KLF vinyl isn't exactly cheap, as I'm sure you'll appreciate.

Well what is to stop you from adding fair comment after a post, commenting that you do not think a particular item is legitimate, or that a particular seller can be trust? I'm working for the BBC and just two weeks ago we had a long and detailed talk from a BBC lawyer about what the BBC- one of the most heavily-scrutiniseed broadcasters, and one of the most heavily punished when it steps out of its especially strict rules- can and can't do and say, and why. You are proposing moderation that's stricter, more inhibitive and more biased than you'd get on a pre-watershed kids TV show.

you'll find that my main concern _wasn't_ about e-bay's validity, but more about loopholes people can jump through by trading on Yahoo groups or other sites with no guarantee of orthodox trade.

I am concerned that people might get run over by cars when they cross the road, but I don't announce that I am going to ban roads or ban cars. If anybody were to ever ask me, I'd tell them where I thought was a sensible place to cross.

Which _is_ a problem at the minute. Believe me. You may not have had the misfortune to experience this, but it is going on.

I'm not questioning that at all. But (as I am very keen on analogies) there are very few situations where if a community is struck by a contagious disease, the solution is to kill everybody.

If people are mailing off-board to individuals announcing *records* for sale (which has happened to me, and I've had one list member complaining about) then that is an issue.

But it's an issue that is in no way resolved by stopping people e-mailling *on* list about a subject. Your 'solution' is not connected to this problem.

Are you plugging another site for reasons of self-interest here? Just curious.

No. I was committing the heinous crime of being pro-KLF by informing people on this list about another location on the Internet where KLF fans congregate for mutual discussion. This other list is not one I created and I'm not on commission. Where's the self-interest in that? Self-interest is where you have an egotism associated with the fact that you 'own' this list, and you're upset at the idea that there is a better, bigger list out there (whose owner imposes no rules and moderation and yet which still ticks over without any problems), and which other people prefer to use. While your comments on the purpose of this list were all very admirable your objection to the mentioning of other KLF lists does seem to expose a nerve there?

And why have you said "If trading of records is forbidden here what would be the point of staying with this list?" when earlier on you've also suggested that that wouldn't be the main thing people would be interested in coming here for, and it wouldn't dominate postings?

The Xmission list has several advantages over this one. This list has some tenuous advantages such as its easy Web access, but if it is plagued with disadvantages, such as fewer members and an overbearing moderator, then it will be unpopular.

Please spare me the flannel about heavy moderation, though. I've just allowed a post of yours to go on about another KLF group, haven't deleted the reference, haven't deleted your post, and haven't actively discouraged anyone else from joining it. This is not general practice across Yahoo Groups. I speak from experience this time!

I am a regular and *very* active member of a large number of Yahoo Groups (until a recent cutting-down session I was subscribed to more than 300, and still have moderator status on a dozen or more). Don't give me that shit about it being "not general practice across Yahoo Groups" to inform people- ONCE- of another site on the Internet that may be of interest to them and which is completely about the band which this group is about. Deleting the reference, deleting my post, actively discourgaging people from it... WHY would you do that?! There is only one practical reason- beecause you don't want people to realise that they'd rather be over there than here. And that is hardly an altruistic attitude for the greater good, is it?! Sorry, but hypocrisy is one of the many things that irritate me. Stuart. -- Stuart Bruce / Web Video / 0208 348 9566 ext. 2610 07729 164044 / stuart.bruce@fameacademy.endemoluk.com ______________________________________________________________________ Any views or opinions expressed in this e-mail are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of ENDEMOL UK plc unless specifically stated. This email and the information it contains are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify us immediately and delete the copy you have received from your system. You should not copy it for any purpose, re-transmit it, use it or disclose its contents to any other person. If you suspect the message may have been intercepted or amended please call the sender.