Original message from: TheMgnt@aol.com
A good post is worth repeating:
Don't you understand that part of the real journey of the White Room is that of the fan? To acheive a true and meaningful watching of the film you must first spend several years believing that no footage from the movie will ever be seen, learning about its mysteries and wonder in the sacred book of Justified & Ancient History, and only when you have followed this path will you receive true enlightenment from the film.
I understood that I might never see the video, because as far as I knew, it had never been released officially. How anybody managed to get their hands on a copy I still don't know :)
People who just download it, watch it on their PC and then post to say "what's that all about?" have missed the point! Kids today just don't know how spoilt they are.
Hey hey hey, wait a second there fella. That sounds waaay too much like the words from a deluded fan who believes their idol can do no wrong; viewing everything through rose-tinted glasses and by no means being objective about the material they produce. Don't get me wrong, I love a lot of the stuff the KLF have done but after reading Mr D's autobiographyish book '45' I am a little more skeptical about why he did the things he did. For me to have my own opinion as The White Room being a load of self-indulgent twaddle is perfectly valid. I actually don't think *that* harshly of it, but hear me out. I've read the whole story about how Bill and Jim came across some down-and-out Mickey guy and that contract sent to them from crazed Illuminatus fans calling themselves Eternity or whatever... These words have just been taken as truth. Does anybody know how the above information was found out? If it was from an interview with Bill by a journalist or something then you should bare in mind that it could well have been made up; like the ley line that runs from Iceland to Liverpool to New Guinea that he talked about...
Gotta agree there. Could go on about mp3s vs record scouring in darkly lit dodgy back alley shops but we've been there before.
-paul
who fondly remembers receiving that video tape in the mail, hands sweating as he nervously but oh so carefully slid it into the VCR, picked up the remote and pressed PLAY.
...and was a bit disappointed? ;) Hawx
On Thu, Apr 25, 2002 at 09:31:37AM +0100, Hawx wrote:
People who just download it, watch it on their PC and then post to say "what's that all about?" have missed the point! Kids today just don't know how spoilt they are.
Hey hey hey, wait a second there fella.
That sounds waaay too much like the words from a deluded fan who believes their idol can do no wrong; viewing everything through rose-tinted glasses and by no means being objective about the material they produce. Don't get me wrong, I love a lot of the stuff the KLF have done but after reading Mr D's autobiographyish book '45' I am a little more skeptical about why he did the things he did.
Then maybe *you* were the one with the rose-tinted glasses. You think B&J did any of it for the fans, or to invoke ancient magickal beings? If you do want to follow the long and winding road that the KLF trod, then you should damn well walk it and not expect a shortcut. You want something instantly accessible that makes sense? Go buy a britney album. You want something a bit more interesting from someone who's work you respect and admire, you might have to search long and hard, and then be left with more questions than answers. Welcome to the trance. Besides, i think Stuart was "seriously only joking"
For me to have my own opinion as The White Room being a load of self-indulgent twaddle is perfectly valid.
Yup, fair enough. But maybe you saw it out of context, just downloading it and watching it. I bet you didn't even take any drugs. For B&J to make self-indulgent twaddle is perfectly valid too, why shouldn't they indulge themselves? The bits I like are the subliminal messages between the frames.
I actually don't think *that* harshly of it, but hear me out. I've read the whole story about how Bill and Jim came across some down-and-out Mickey guy and that contract sent to them from crazed Illuminatus fans calling themselves Eternity or whatever... These words have just been taken as truth. Does anybody know how the above information was found out? If it was from an interview with Bill by a journalist or something then you should bare in mind that it could well have been made up; like the ley line that runs from Iceland to Liverpool to New Guinea that he talked about...
Oooh no, it might be made up? Don't shatter my dreams! Don Lucknowe KSC might be real, he might not. In the absence of further evidence it doesn't really matter, the effect is the same whether he exists or not. There's a letter from him, faked or not, that invokes a mysterious conspiracy around the JAMs. Job done. A couple of my sigs seem relevant here: "What I tell you three times is true" - central tenet of magick "Accept the contradictions" - The KLF
Gotta agree there. Could go on about mp3s vs record scouring in darkly lit dodgy back alley shops but we've been there before.
-paul
who fondly remembers receiving that video tape in the mail, hands sweating as he nervously but oh so carefully slid it into the VCR, picked up the remote and pressed PLAY.
...and was a bit disappointed? ;)
You're missing the point still. I nearly came in my pants the day I walked into a record store and saw 1987 on the wall, having searched for it for years. Now, I'd never claim it's great listening (I like it, but wouldn't expect most people I know to enjoy it) but the act of finding it was something special. Even if I'd hated it, it was something I'd searched for for YEARS. I always think this poem from the cover of Bill's solo album is reminiscent of the idea of the white room: "Thank God! There is always a Land of Beyond For us who are true to the trail A vision to seek, a beckoning peak A farness that will never fail, A pride in our soul that mocks at a goal A manhood that irks at a bond, Try how we will, unattainable still Behold it, our Land of Beyond". If the film made sense the land of beyond wouldn't be unattainable. Now read this again and decide where i'm being serious ;) -- Those who taste, know - Sufi saying
On Thu 25 Apr, Hawx wrote:
Original message from: TheMgnt@aol.com
A good post is worth repeating:
People who just download it, watch it on their PC and then post to say "what's that all about?" have missed the point! Kids today just don't know how spoilt they are.
Hey hey hey, wait a second there fella.
That sounds waaay too much like the words from a deluded fan who believes their idol can do no wrong; viewing everything through rose-tinted glasses and by no means being objective about the material they produce.
Well, by the sound of it, not only do you not understand the movie properly, you don't understand me and what I say properly either. Hmmm. There I was, sorting my deep-frozen samples of Bill & Jimmy's spit into flem thickness order, when you imply that I'm not objective about what they do. Hmmm. Because of that implication that I am not an objective fan I am going to have to argue with you.
Don't get me wrong, I love a lot of the stuff the KLF have done but after rea ding Mr D's autobiographyish book '45' I am a little more skeptical about why he did the things he did.
But I notice you've spelt sceptical with a "K"... which proves that Bill and Jimmy have had a strong subliminal impact on your spelling! Hmmm.
For me to have my own opinion as The White Room being a load of self-indulgent twaddle is perfectly valid. I actually don't think *that* harshly of it, but hear me out. I've read the whole stor y about how Bill and Jim came across some down-and-out Mickey guy and that contract sent to them from craze d Illuminatus fans calling themselves Eternity or whatever... These words have just been taken as truth. Does anybody know how the above information was found out? If it was from an interview with Bill by a jo urnalist or something then you should bare in mind that it could well have been made up; like the ley line that runs from Iceland to Liverpool to New Guinea that he talked about...
It doesn't matter one bit whether the story about the Contract *was* true, whether that really did happen to them, at all. To me the "White Room" movie can be seen as two thing; 1. Part of the wider fiction of the white room, as a concept not a place. Unsurprisingly, it grows directly out of lyrics from the songs of "The White Room". In fact having heard the 1989 version of the White Room album years earlier, when I finally saw the film it seemed like the exact visual equivalent of the music. 2. A very well soundtracked, bold, watchable and utterly pointless road movie perfect for watching in the middle of the night wrapped in three cushions, two cats and a girlfriend. Drugs optional. It *means* absolutely nothing- it is an atmosphere, not a story. Therefore looking for a Hollywood-style story in it is about as futile as playing the Austin Powers drinking game whilst watching it. ("Did Jimmy just say 'groovy'? No? Hmmm, I still feel strangely sober.") The lyrics of the "White Room" versions are almost all emotion and atmosphere, not action. If there had been a film version of "1987", or even if they'd ever gotten around to shooting the Outer Film, then you could've expected something very different. But in the case of the Inner Film, what did and didn't and does and doesn't actually happen is of almost no consequence.
who fondly remembers receiving that video tape in the mail, hands sweating as he nervously but oh so carefully slid it into the VCR, picked up the remote and pressed PLAY.
...and was a bit disappointed? ;)
Only when he noticed that he hadn't turned his TV on. But when he got out of his feng shui chair, turned his TV on and fell back down again, pressing "play" was a lot more satisfying. Except that his VCR has a single play/pause button and he suddenly found his VCR was in pause. So he pressed play again and found that a lot more satisfying. Don't you see?! They know *everything* about us. Stuart. -- Stuart Bruce - klf@atomiser.demon.co.uk or preferably stuart@atomiser.demon.co.uk The Utah Saints Mailing List http://groups.yahoo.com/group/utahsaints/
participants (3)
-
Hawx -
Jonathan Wakely -
Stuart Bruce