This is an impudence or not? http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2550750798&category=1058 http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2550750829&category=1573 40 selfmade mp3-CDRs Some people are so stupid.
Yes, some eBay sellers should be slapped all day long. ------ Thomas Touzimsky "Sometimes I think of letting go and never looking back and never moving forward so there would never be a past." ----- Original Message ----- From: <klf-communications@arcor.de> To: <klf@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2003 5:22 PM Subject: [KLF] an impudence
This is an impudence or not?
http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2550750798&category=1058
http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2550750829&category=1573
40 selfmade mp3-CDRs
Some people are so stupid.
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I disagree. I don't think the seller is doing anything particularly wrong here - he's certainly made it quite obviously that these are simply CDR's with mp3s on them hasn't he? For those of us with broadband connections (or FTP access from work) obtaining mp3 is easy - however, coming from a 56kbps dial-up connection that kept dropping out, I can see why to some people pre-made CDs would be a Godsend. Just my 2c after all, not an invitation to start flaming...
he is selling copied stuff to make money.
I disagree. I don't think the seller is doing anything particularly wrong here - he's certainly made it quite obviously that these are simply CDR's with mp3s on them hasn't he? For those of us with broadband connections (or FTP access from work) obtaining mp3 is easy - however, coming from a 56kbps dial-up connection that kept dropping out, I can see why to some people pre-made CDs would be a Godsend.
Just my 2c after all, not an invitation to start flaming...
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No. He's *trying* to sell copied stuff for money. If people are prepared to pay £5 for it then it's up to them to decide that. He's certainly not misrepresenting what is actually being sold. Haven't people on this list put together compilations on CDR, and sold them on eBay as such?
-----Original Message----- From: Jon Doe [mailto:jondoe@clsmweb.fsnet.co.uk] Sent: 10 August 2003 17:56 To: munkie@cloud9ine.com; All bound for Mu-Mu Land. Subject: Re: [KLF] an impudence
he is selling copied stuff to make money.
I disagree. I don't think the seller is doing anything
particularly
wrong here - he's certainly made it quite obviously that these are simply CDR's with mp3s on them hasn't he? For those of us with broadband connections (or FTP access from work) obtaining mp3 is easy - however, coming from a 56kbps dial-up connection that kept dropping out, I can see why to some people pre-made CDs would be a Godsend.
Just my 2c after all, not an invitation to start flaming...
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On Sun, Aug 10, 2003 at 06:04:23PM +0100, Chris Peel wrote:
No. He's *trying* to sell copied stuff for money. If people are prepared to pay ?5 for it then it's up to them to decide that. He's certainly not misrepresenting what is actually being sold. Haven't people on this list put together compilations on CDR, and sold them on eBay as such?
I was going to post something about copyrighted material being sold like this, but isn't all of the JAMs' material supposed to be "anti-copyright" or considered public domain? In which case, selling of said materials in that respected format would be justifiable. (If all said mp3s were ripped from JAMS/KLF Communications releases.) -- . \ ` ' / . ._` __^__ '_. Loki Ambridous von Esling [()=()] RELST8 - http://www.relst8.net /_____\ Justified
I imagine it's a bit of a "grey area". I do remember hearing that, although Bill and Jimmy were notoriously liberal with their use of stolen samples, they'd come down like a ton of bricks on people who stole parts of their tracks. Whether this is true or not, I don't know, but I do smile at the irony...
-----Original Message----- From: klf-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:klf-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Loki Ambrodious von Esling Sent: 10 August 2003 18:10 To: klf@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [KLF] an impudence
On Sun, Aug 10, 2003 at 06:04:23PM +0100, Chris Peel wrote:
No. He's *trying* to sell copied stuff for money. If people are prepared to pay ?5 for it then it's up to them to decide
that. He's
certainly not misrepresenting what is actually being sold. Haven't people on this list put together compilations on CDR, and sold them on eBay as such?
I was going to post something about copyrighted material being sold like this, but isn't all of the JAMs' material supposed to be "anti-copyright" or considered public domain? In which case, selling of said materials in that respected format would be justifiable. (If all said mp3s were ripped from JAMS/KLF Communications releases.)
-- . \ ` ' / . ._` __^__ '_. Loki Ambridous von Esling [()=()] RELST8 - http://www.relst8.net /_____\ Justified
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On Sun, Aug 10, 2003 at 06:13:14PM +0100, Chris Peel wrote:
I imagine it's a bit of a "grey area". I do remember hearing that, although Bill and Jimmy were notoriously liberal with their use of stolen samples, they'd come down like a ton of bricks on people who stole parts of their tracks. Whether this is true or not, I don't know, but I do smile at the irony...
another thought: Consider the term "abandonware." Abandonware is software that is neither sold, nor supported by a software company. Since The JAMs/KLF are no more, and thier entire back catalogue has been deleted (KLF Comm. releases) maybe that's another way this could be justified and to a larger extent by defination, every release could be available for free! Just don't go into a used cd store and walk out with thier 150UKP copy of 1987 and claim that it's free. -- . \ ` ' / . ._` __^__ '_. Loki Ambridous von Esling [()=()] RELST8 - http://www.relst8.net /_____\ Justified
LOL! I've not heard of the phrase "AbandonWare" before but it's interesting. Presumably though, a software company would have to officially declared the product 'abandoned'? Let's take a hypothetical product from a hypothetical company - PsychoSoft Word by a company called PsychoSoft. Let's say that PsychoSoft decide that there's no point continuing with their "Word" product as OpenOffice is wiping the floor with them. Now, along come Psynux Co. who decide to start selling old copies of PsychoSoft "Word" (with some additional bits and bobs in the box). The product starts selling well again - suddenly PsychoSoft decide that they 'may give "Word" another go' and demand any monies made by Psynux for selling their product without a reseller licence... I do remember that ManCentral was perpetually bombared with emails saying that having various mp3's on-line was infringing Copyright Law. I think the owner actually sought legal advice on the matter - presumably coming out successful in the end? With regards to the specific eBay items that started this thread - I think the £5 price is a bit cheeky, especially when you factor in the £1.50 shipping costs as well. It'd have been 'nicer' to have a £1 starting price (to cover CD media, toner ink, etc.) and put them in an auction. Still, will be interesting to see how they sell. On a personal note, my KLF collection has expanded massively since my interest in eBay was rekindled and I'm enjoying myself immensley tracking down some of the more elusive items. On the other hand - my car stereo will play mp3s directly, and two CDs full of my favourite KLF tracks would be just the ticket as my dashboard mounted SL1210 jumps terribly over speedbumps. =)
-----Original Message----- From: klf-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:klf-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Loki Ambrodious von Esling Sent: 10 August 2003 18:21 To: klf@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [KLF] an impudence
On Sun, Aug 10, 2003 at 06:13:14PM +0100, Chris Peel wrote:
I imagine it's a bit of a "grey area". I do remember hearing that, although Bill and Jimmy were notoriously liberal with their use of stolen samples, they'd come down like a ton of bricks on people who stole parts of their tracks. Whether this is true or not, I don't know, but I do smile at the irony...
another thought:
Consider the term "abandonware." Abandonware is software that is neither sold, nor supported by a software company. Since The JAMs/KLF are no more, and thier entire back catalogue has been deleted (KLF Comm. releases) maybe that's another way this could be justified and to a larger extent by defination, every release could be available for free!
Just don't go into a used cd store and walk out with thier 150UKP copy of 1987 and claim that it's free.
-- . \ ` ' / . ._` __^__ '_. Loki Ambridous von Esling [()=()] RELST8 - http://www.relst8.net /_____\ Justified
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The product starts selling well again - suddenly PsychoSoft decide that they 'may give "Word" another go' and demand any monies made by Psynux for selling their product without a reseller licence...
The difference here is that Abandonware gets outdated by the spiral of technological development and programming advances. I guess PsychoSoft wouldn't get on your back if you download their old "Word 6.0 for SinDoze" from the internet. Music doesn't get outdated in that same sense.
and two CDs full of my favourite KLF tracks would be just the ticket as my dashboard mounted SL1210 jumps terribly over speedbumps. =)
Not to mention the problems with switching sides while on the road... ;-) ------ Thomas Touzimsky "Sometimes I think of letting go and never looking back and never moving forward so there would never be a past."
On Sun, 10 Aug 2003, Chris Peel wrote:
LOL! I've not heard of the phrase "AbandonWare" before but it's interesting. Presumably though, a software company would have to officially declared the product 'abandoned'?
Of course things rarely are this simple. (Yes, there are examples in the gaming world where developers have offically "abandoned" their product and set it to public domain, but that's more an exception than a rule.) Like with recorded music, there's usually the publisher, who owns the rights to the products and even though the product may be sold out years ago, they still refuse to release it to public. Or alternatively, it may be protected by IDSA (the gaming world equivalent of RIAA), which quite effectively prevents the free distribution. More about "abandonware", over this link: http://www.the-underdogs.org/faq.php#a5
No. He's *trying* to sell copied stuff for money. If people are prepared to pay £5 for it then it's up to them to decide that. He's certainly not misrepresenting what is actually being sold. Haven't people on this list put together compilations on CDR, and sold them on eBay as such?
is £5 covering costs or profiting hugely? whats a cdr worth that side of the planet? personally i consider covering costs to be ok when trading mp3s. my 2cents+gst brendan
participants (7)
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brendan -
Chris Peel -
Jon Doe -
klf-communications＠arcor.de -
Loki Ambrodious von Esling -
quaz -
Thomas Touzimsky