The actual music The FLK are creating really lacks the sheer inventiveness of B&J in my opinion. It's unimaginative and the production is mediocre. One thing B&J always did well (apart from arguably the early JAMS stuff) was turn out a well produced product. I don't see why they would drop all of their music business contacts and now be making boring copy & paste music that sounds like it was made in Reason. The use of samples and editing by Cauty on "Space" outstrips this FLK stuff by a few lightyears - and that was 20 years ago. I just think if this was actually B&J they would have pulled out all the stops, and come out with something, well.. better!
Possibly - although Fuck the Millennium was rather pedestrian, I always thought. I think Bill implied this was all part of the whole 1997 2K thing being a "parody" of bands reforming (specifically the Pistols getting together the year before) and the naffness of it. But maybe not. The fact they were sampling the Chemical Brothers on a KLF record always seemed ... odd. But yeah, if they wanted to do something, the one thing it wouldn't be would be what they've done before. On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 9:41 AM, Morphy <themorphy@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
The actual music The FLK are creating really lacks the sheer inventiveness of B&J in my opinion. It's unimaginative and the production is mediocre. One thing B&J always did well (apart from arguably the early JAMS stuff) was turn out a well produced product. I don't see why they would drop all of their music business contacts and now be making boring copy & paste music that sounds like it was made in Reason. The use of samples and editing by Cauty on "Space" outstrips this FLK stuff by a few lightyears - and that was 20 years ago. I just think if this was actually B&J they would have pulled out all the stops, and come out with something, well.. better!
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A few months back I was contacted by a list member directly. It was around the time I was doing the car. To cut a long story short, they had had some very close dealings with Jimmy, and during their time together Jimmy mentioned that he had no inclination to have anything to do with the KLF owing mainly to being put off by fans. If I was to break it down, my own opinion would be that Jimmy is now involved with his art, Bill with The 17. I would imagine that both will have had to work quite hard to distance themselves from their dealings with the KLF in order for their current work to be recognised in its own right. At a 17 talk I went to, Bill invited people to leave if they were there in any way because of the KLF. It seems like it would be more hypocritical than anything else if Bill and Jimmy had any involvement. That's just my input. From: klf-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:klf-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of John Milne Sent: 24 August 2011 10:06 To: All bound for Mu-Mu Land. Subject: Re: [KLF] Are the FLK too slim to be the KLF? Possibly - although Fuck the Millennium was rather pedestrian, I always thought. I think Bill implied this was all part of the whole 1997 2K thing being a "parody" of bands reforming (specifically the Pistols getting together the year before) and the naffness of it. But maybe not. The fact they were sampling the Chemical Brothers on a KLF record always seemed ... odd. But yeah, if they wanted to do something, the one thing it wouldn't be would be what they've done before. On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 9:41 AM, Morphy <themorphy@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: The actual music The FLK are creating really lacks the sheer inventiveness of B&J in my opinion. It's unimaginative and the production is mediocre. One thing B&J always did well (apart from arguably the early JAMS stuff) was turn out a well produced product. I don't see why they would drop all of their music business contacts and now be making boring copy & paste music that sounds like it was made in Reason. The use of samples and editing by Cauty on "Space" outstrips this FLK stuff by a few lightyears - and that was 20 years ago. I just think if this was actually B&J they would have pulled out all the stops, and come out with something, well.. better! _______________________________________________ KLF mailing list KLF@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/klf Report list abuse to list-abuse at studio-nibble.com
Disappointing to hear that they hate us so much they don't want to do anything K-related. What a couple of c***ts. Dan On Aug 24, 2011, at 6:11 AM, "Ross Jarvis" <jarvmeister@gmail.com> wrote:
A few months back I was contacted by a list member directly. It was around the time I was doing the car.
To cut a long story short, they had had some very close dealings with Jimmy, and during their time together Jimmy mentioned that he had no inclination to have anything to do with the KLF owing mainly to being put off by fans.
If I was to break it down, my own opinion would be that Jimmy is now involved with his art, Bill with The 17. I would imagine that both will have had to work quite hard to distance themselves from their dealings with the KLF in order for their current work to be recognised in its own right. At a 17 talk I went to, Bill invited people to leave if they were there in any way because of the KLF.
It seems like it would be more hypocritical than anything else if Bill and Jimmy had any involvement.
That’s just my input.
From: klf-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:klf-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of John Milne Sent: 24 August 2011 10:06 To: All bound for Mu-Mu Land. Subject: Re: [KLF] Are the FLK too slim to be the KLF?
Possibly - although Fuck the Millennium was rather pedestrian, I always thought. I think Bill implied this was all part of the whole 1997 2K thing being a "parody" of bands reforming (specifically the Pistols getting together the year before) and the naffness of it. But maybe not. The fact they were sampling the Chemical Brothers on a KLF record always seemed ... odd.
But yeah, if they wanted to do something, the one thing it wouldn't be would be what they've done before.
On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 9:41 AM, Morphy <themorphy@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
The actual music The FLK are creating really lacks the sheer inventiveness of B&J in my opinion. It's unimaginative and the production is mediocre. One thing B&J always did well (apart from arguably the early JAMS stuff) was turn out a well produced product. I don't see why they would drop all of their music business contacts and now be making boring copy & paste music that sounds like it was made in Reason. The use of samples and editing by Cauty on "Space" outstrips this FLK stuff by a few lightyears - and that was 20 years ago. I just think if this was actually B&J they would have pulled out all the stops, and come out with something, well.. better!
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I only said Jimmy had been ‘put off’ doing anything further K related, I didn’t say he had a hatred for the fans. I think it’s fairly common for artists that have been a seminal part of pop history to tire of the constant reference to their past, especially when they are trying to move forward in different directions. It’s like an actor getting typecast. I don’t take it as an insult to the fans at all, but I think it’s to be respected, especially if I were lucky enough to meet either one of them again. From: klf-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:klf-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Dan T. Hutchins Sent: 24 August 2011 12:27 To: All bound for Mu-Mu Land. Subject: Re: [KLF] Are the FLK too slim to be the KLF? Disappointing to hear that they hate us so much they don't want to do anything K-related. What a couple of c***ts. Dan On Aug 24, 2011, at 6:11 AM, "Ross Jarvis" <jarvmeister@gmail.com> wrote: A few months back I was contacted by a list member directly. It was around the time I was doing the car. To cut a long story short, they had had some very close dealings with Jimmy, and during their time together Jimmy mentioned that he had no inclination to have anything to do with the KLF owing mainly to being put off by fans. If I was to break it down, my own opinion would be that Jimmy is now involved with his art, Bill with The 17. I would imagine that both will have had to work quite hard to distance themselves from their dealings with the KLF in order for their current work to be recognised in its own right. At a 17 talk I went to, Bill invited people to leave if they were there in any way because of the KLF. It seems like it would be more hypocritical than anything else if Bill and Jimmy had any involvement. That’s just my input. From: klf-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:klf-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of John Milne Sent: 24 August 2011 10:06 To: All bound for Mu-Mu Land. Subject: Re: [KLF] Are the FLK too slim to be the KLF? Possibly - although Fuck the Millennium was rather pedestrian, I always thought. I think Bill implied this was all part of the whole 1997 2K thing being a "parody" of bands reforming (specifically the Pistols getting together the year before) and the naffness of it. But maybe not. The fact they were sampling the Chemical Brothers on a KLF record always seemed ... odd. But yeah, if they wanted to do something, the one thing it wouldn't be would be what they've done before. On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 9:41 AM, Morphy <themorphy@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: The actual music The FLK are creating really lacks the sheer inventiveness of B&J in my opinion. It's unimaginative and the production is mediocre. One thing B&J always did well (apart from arguably the early JAMS stuff) was turn out a well produced product. I don't see why they would drop all of their music business contacts and now be making boring copy & paste music that sounds like it was made in Reason. The use of samples and editing by Cauty on "Space" outstrips this FLK stuff by a few lightyears - and that was 20 years ago. I just think if this was actually B&J they would have pulled out all the stops, and come out with something, well.. better! _______________________________________________ KLF mailing list KLF@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/klf Report list abuse to list-abuse at studio-nibble.com _______________________________________________ KLF mailing list KLF@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/klf Report list abuse to list-abuse at studio-nibble.com
Exactly what I was thinking. Will not go to that festival in Holland then too. I'm done. On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 1:27 PM, Dan T. Hutchins <danthutchins@gmail.com>wrote:
Disappointing to hear that they hate us so much they don't want to do anything K-related. What a couple of c***ts.
Dan
On Aug 24, 2011, at 6:11 AM, "Ross Jarvis" <jarvmeister@gmail.com> wrote:
A few months back I was contacted by a list member directly. It was around the time I was doing the car.****
** **
To cut a long story short, they had had some very close dealings with Jimmy, and during their time together Jimmy mentioned that he had no inclination to have anything to do with the KLF owing mainly to being put off by fans.****
** **
If I was to break it down, my own opinion would be that Jimmy is now involved with his art, Bill with The 17. I would imagine that both will have had to work quite hard to distance themselves from their dealings with the KLF in order for their current work to be recognised in its own right. At a 17 talk I went to, Bill invited people to leave if they were there in any way because of the KLF.****
** **
It seems like it would be more hypocritical than anything else if Bill and Jimmy had any involvement.****
** **
That’s just my input.****
** **
*From:* klf-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto: klf-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] *On Behalf Of *John Milne *Sent:* 24 August 2011 10:06 *To:* All bound for Mu-Mu Land. *Subject:* Re: [KLF] Are the FLK too slim to be the KLF?****
** **
Possibly - although Fuck the Millennium was rather pedestrian, I always thought. I think Bill implied this was all part of the whole 1997 2K thing being a "parody" of bands reforming (specifically the Pistols getting together the year before) and the naffness of it. But maybe not. The fact they were sampling the Chemical Brothers on a KLF record always seemed ... odd.
But yeah, if they wanted to do something, the one thing it wouldn't be would be what they've done before.****
On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 9:41 AM, Morphy < <themorphy@yahoo.co.uk> themorphy@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:****
The actual music The FLK are creating really lacks the sheer inventiveness of B&J in my opinion. It's unimaginative and the production is mediocre. One thing B&J always did well (apart from arguably the early JAMS stuff) was turn out a well produced product. I don't see why they would drop all of their music business contacts and now be making boring copy & paste music that sounds like it was made in Reason. The use of samples and editing by Cauty on "Space" outstrips this FLK stuff by a few lightyears - and that was 20 years ago. I just think if this was actually B&J they would have pulled out all the stops, and come out with something, well.. better!
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** **
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Why is it so hard to understand that Bill wants credit for what he does in the present? He has done amazing stuff with Jimmy in the KLF-past, they split up and left magic and mystery for us (the fans) What Bill is doing these days has nothing to do with the KLF past, so I can understand that if the audience is filled with KLF fans, the Fans would be disappointed because of the "hey, this isn't KLF-stuff" and Bill still wouldn't know if people came for his current project of his past. Though I must say that he could have been a bit more subtle ;) Michiel Van: klf-bounces+michiel=moonstorm.nl@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:klf-bounces+michiel=moonstorm.nl@mailman.xmission.com] Namens Ross Jarvis Verzonden: woensdag 24 augustus 2011 12:11 Aan: 'All bound for Mu-Mu Land.' Onderwerp: Re: [KLF] Are the FLK too slim to be the KLF? A few months back I was contacted by a list member directly. It was around the time I was doing the car. To cut a long story short, they had had some very close dealings with Jimmy, and during their time together Jimmy mentioned that he had no inclination to have anything to do with the KLF owing mainly to being put off by fans. If I was to break it down, my own opinion would be that Jimmy is now involved with his art, Bill with The 17. I would imagine that both will have had to work quite hard to distance themselves from their dealings with the KLF in order for their current work to be recognised in its own right. At a 17 talk I went to, Bill invited people to leave if they were there in any way because of the KLF. It seems like it would be more hypocritical than anything else if Bill and Jimmy had any involvement. That's just my input. From: klf-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:klf-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of John Milne Sent: 24 August 2011 10:06 To: All bound for Mu-Mu Land. Subject: Re: [KLF] Are the FLK too slim to be the KLF? Possibly - although Fuck the Millennium was rather pedestrian, I always thought. I think Bill implied this was all part of the whole 1997 2K thing being a "parody" of bands reforming (specifically the Pistols getting together the year before) and the naffness of it. But maybe not. The fact they were sampling the Chemical Brothers on a KLF record always seemed ... odd. But yeah, if they wanted to do something, the one thing it wouldn't be would be what they've done before. On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 9:41 AM, Morphy <themorphy@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: The actual music The FLK are creating really lacks the sheer inventiveness of B&J in my opinion. It's unimaginative and the production is mediocre. One thing B&J always did well (apart from arguably the early JAMS stuff) was turn out a well produced product. I don't see why they would drop all of their music business contacts and now be making boring copy & paste music that sounds like it was made in Reason. The use of samples and editing by Cauty on "Space" outstrips this FLK stuff by a few lightyears - and that was 20 years ago. I just think if this was actually B&J they would have pulled out all the stops, and come out with something, well.. better! _______________________________________________ KLF mailing list KLF@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/klf Report list abuse to list-abuse at studio-nibble.com
In fairness it wasn't a 'get out if you're a KLF fan' more a warning about the content - as you say. Interestingly, one person got up and left!! From: klf-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:klf-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Michiel [moonstorm.nl] Sent: 24 August 2011 15:49 To: 'All bound for Mu-Mu Land.' Subject: Re: [KLF] Are the FLK too slim to be the KLF? Why is it so hard to understand that Bill wants credit for what he does in the present? He has done amazing stuff with Jimmy in the KLF-past, they split up and left magic and mystery for us (the fans) What Bill is doing these days has nothing to do with the KLF past, so I can understand that if the audience is filled with KLF fans, the Fans would be disappointed because of the "hey, this isn't KLF-stuff" and Bill still wouldn't know if people came for his current project of his past. Though I must say that he could have been a bit more subtle ;) Michiel Van: klf-bounces+michiel=moonstorm.nl@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:klf-bounces+michiel=moonstorm.nl@mailman.xmission.com] Namens Ross Jarvis Verzonden: woensdag 24 augustus 2011 12:11 Aan: 'All bound for Mu-Mu Land.' Onderwerp: Re: [KLF] Are the FLK too slim to be the KLF? A few months back I was contacted by a list member directly. It was around the time I was doing the car. To cut a long story short, they had had some very close dealings with Jimmy, and during their time together Jimmy mentioned that he had no inclination to have anything to do with the KLF owing mainly to being put off by fans. If I was to break it down, my own opinion would be that Jimmy is now involved with his art, Bill with The 17. I would imagine that both will have had to work quite hard to distance themselves from their dealings with the KLF in order for their current work to be recognised in its own right. At a 17 talk I went to, Bill invited people to leave if they were there in any way because of the KLF. It seems like it would be more hypocritical than anything else if Bill and Jimmy had any involvement. That's just my input. From: klf-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:klf-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of John Milne Sent: 24 August 2011 10:06 To: All bound for Mu-Mu Land. Subject: Re: [KLF] Are the FLK too slim to be the KLF? Possibly - although Fuck the Millennium was rather pedestrian, I always thought. I think Bill implied this was all part of the whole 1997 2K thing being a "parody" of bands reforming (specifically the Pistols getting together the year before) and the naffness of it. But maybe not. The fact they were sampling the Chemical Brothers on a KLF record always seemed ... odd. But yeah, if they wanted to do something, the one thing it wouldn't be would be what they've done before. On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 9:41 AM, Morphy <themorphy@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: The actual music The FLK are creating really lacks the sheer inventiveness of B&J in my opinion. It's unimaginative and the production is mediocre. One thing B&J always did well (apart from arguably the early JAMS stuff) was turn out a well produced product. I don't see why they would drop all of their music business contacts and now be making boring copy & paste music that sounds like it was made in Reason. The use of samples and editing by Cauty on "Space" outstrips this FLK stuff by a few lightyears - and that was 20 years ago. I just think if this was actually B&J they would have pulled out all the stops, and come out with something, well.. better! _______________________________________________ KLF mailing list KLF@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/klf Report list abuse to list-abuse at studio-nibble.com
To be fair to the fans, is it unreasonable for them to be curious when you quit mysteriouly at the height of success, without explanation, leaving what is considered by many involved to be your greatest masterpiece unfinished along with tons of other unreleased stuff in the vaults, proceed to burn the proceeds, then refuse to discuss it? Dan On Aug 24, 2011, at 10:49 AM, "Michiel [moonstorm.nl]" <michiel@moonstorm.nl> wrote:
Why is it so hard to understand that Bill wants credit for what he does in the present?
He has done amazing stuff with Jimmy in the KLF-past, they split up and left magic and mystery for us (the fans)
What Bill is doing these days has nothing to do with the KLF past, so I can understand that if the audience is filled with KLF fans, the Fans would be disappointed because of the “hey, this isn’t KLF-stuff” and Bill still wouldn’t know if people came for his current project of his past.
Though I must say that he could have been a bit more subtle ;)
Michiel
Van: klf-bounces+michiel=moonstorm.nl@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:klf-bounces+michiel=moonstorm.nl@mailman.xmission.com] Namens Ross Jarvis Verzonden: woensdag 24 augustus 2011 12:11 Aan: 'All bound for Mu-Mu Land.' Onderwerp: Re: [KLF] Are the FLK too slim to be the KLF?
A few months back I was contacted by a list member directly. It was around the time I was doing the car.
To cut a long story short, they had had some very close dealings with Jimmy, and during their time together Jimmy mentioned that he had no inclination to have anything to do with the KLF owing mainly to being put off by fans.
If I was to break it down, my own opinion would be that Jimmy is now involved with his art, Bill with The 17. I would imagine that both will have had to work quite hard to distance themselves from their dealings with the KLF in order for their current work to be recognised in its own right. At a 17 talk I went to, Bill invited people to leave if they were there in any way because of the KLF.
It seems like it would be more hypocritical than anything else if Bill and Jimmy had any involvement.
That’s just my input.
From: klf-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:klf-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of John Milne Sent: 24 August 2011 10:06 To: All bound for Mu-Mu Land. Subject: Re: [KLF] Are the FLK too slim to be the KLF?
Possibly - although Fuck the Millennium was rather pedestrian, I always thought. I think Bill implied this was all part of the whole 1997 2K thing being a "parody" of bands reforming (specifically the Pistols getting together the year before) and the naffness of it. But maybe not. The fact they were sampling the Chemical Brothers on a KLF record always seemed ... odd.
But yeah, if they wanted to do something, the one thing it wouldn't be would be what they've done before.
On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 9:41 AM, Morphy <themorphy@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
The actual music The FLK are creating really lacks the sheer inventiveness of B&J in my opinion. It's unimaginative and the production is mediocre. One thing B&J always did well (apart from arguably the early JAMS stuff) was turn out a well produced product. I don't see why they would drop all of their music business contacts and now be making boring copy & paste music that sounds like it was made in Reason. The use of samples and editing by Cauty on "Space" outstrips this FLK stuff by a few lightyears - and that was 20 years ago. I just think if this was actually B&J they would have pulled out all the stops, and come out with something, well.. better!
_______________________________________________ KLF mailing list KLF@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/klf Report list abuse to list-abuse at studio-nibble.com
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Personally, I think they got writer's block. They couldn't figure out how to complete the black room, so they started getting all these guest artists on to help them... when that wasn't working, they said eff it and to make it "artistic" and meaningful, they deleted the back-catalog and went out the way they did. On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 9:24 AM, Dan T. Hutchins <danthutchins@gmail.com> wrote:
To be fair to the fans, is it unreasonable for them to be curious when you quit mysteriouly at the height of success, without explanation, leaving what is considered by many involved to be your greatest masterpiece unfinished along with tons of other unreleased stuff in the vaults, proceed to burn the proceeds, then refuse to discuss it?
Dan On Aug 24, 2011, at 10:49 AM, "Michiel [moonstorm.nl]" <michiel@moonstorm.nl> wrote:
Why is it so hard to understand that Bill wants credit for what he does in the present?
He has done amazing stuff with Jimmy in the KLF-past, they split up and left magic and mystery for us (the fans)
What Bill is doing these days has nothing to do with the KLF past, so I can understand that if the audience is filled with KLF fans, the Fans would be disappointed because of the “hey, this isn’t KLF-stuff” and Bill still wouldn’t know if people came for his current project of his past.
Though I must say that he could have been a bit more subtle ;)
Michiel
Van: klf-bounces+michiel=moonstorm.nl@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:klf-bounces+michiel=moonstorm.nl@mailman.xmission.com] Namens Ross Jarvis Verzonden: woensdag 24 augustus 2011 12:11 Aan: 'All bound for Mu-Mu Land.' Onderwerp: Re: [KLF] Are the FLK too slim to be the KLF?
A few months back I was contacted by a list member directly. It was around the time I was doing the car.
To cut a long story short, they had had some very close dealings with Jimmy, and during their time together Jimmy mentioned that he had no inclination to have anything to do with the KLF owing mainly to being put off by fans.
If I was to break it down, my own opinion would be that Jimmy is now involved with his art, Bill with The 17. I would imagine that both will have had to work quite hard to distance themselves from their dealings with the KLF in order for their current work to be recognised in its own right. At a 17 talk I went to, Bill invited people to leave if they were there in any way because of the KLF.
It seems like it would be more hypocritical than anything else if Bill and Jimmy had any involvement.
That’s just my input.
From: klf-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:klf-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of John Milne Sent: 24 August 2011 10:06 To: All bound for Mu-Mu Land. Subject: Re: [KLF] Are the FLK too slim to be the KLF?
Possibly - although Fuck the Millennium was rather pedestrian, I always thought. I think Bill implied this was all part of the whole 1997 2K thing being a "parody" of bands reforming (specifically the Pistols getting together the year before) and the naffness of it. But maybe not. The fact they were sampling the Chemical Brothers on a KLF record always seemed ... odd.
But yeah, if they wanted to do something, the one thing it wouldn't be would be what they've done before.
On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 9:41 AM, Morphy <themorphy@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
The actual music The FLK are creating really lacks the sheer inventiveness of B&J in my opinion. It's unimaginative and the production is mediocre. One thing B&J always did well (apart from arguably the early JAMS stuff) was turn out a well produced product. I don't see why they would drop all of their music business contacts and now be making boring copy & paste music that sounds like it was made in Reason. The use of samples and editing by Cauty on "Space" outstrips this FLK stuff by a few lightyears - and that was 20 years ago. I just think if this was actually B&J they would have pulled out all the stops, and come out with something, well.. better!
_______________________________________________ KLF mailing list KLF@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/klf Report list abuse to list-abuse at studio-nibble.com
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Funny that you mention the Writer's Block. I think that could be more true than you think. I read Bill's book "40" (btw: I too think he really writes great, got to have more books written by him). Anyway, in that book he described how he went into the studio again with Cauty and they just had to lie down on the floor because they were thrown away by what was, then, called The Prodigy. The way those beats were made, the sound The Prodigy produced, B&J already realised they were falling behind. They even got the 'analogue limiter' used by The Prodigy in the studio to try to resemble that sound. Says enough I think. So it's quite probable they also thought: We're too *far* behind already. What is possible, since the White Room was actually a collection of fifth-generation self-made remixes of previous 'cheesy' originals they made back in the 80's. It took them, if you look at it like that, actually *years* to write it. So how could they produce a new album with the same impact in just 1 or 2 years? To conclude, when Michael Jackson's Earth Song, didn't B or J send to the other a fax with just this text: "Because we will never be as great as him." And after that, the same respect from Bill Drummond for "hmmm bop", calling it "the greatest pop song ever made.". Yep, seriously, then you've got no business in the music business ;) But that's just my opinion ofcourse. On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 6:33 PM, Chromatest J. Pantsmaker < chromatest@azburners.org> wrote:
Personally, I think they got writer's block. They couldn't figure out how to complete the black room, so they started getting all these guest artists on to help them... when that wasn't working, they said eff it and to make it "artistic" and meaningful, they deleted the back-catalog and went out the way they did.
On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 9:24 AM, Dan T. Hutchins <danthutchins@gmail.com> wrote:
To be fair to the fans, is it unreasonable for them to be curious when
you quit mysteriouly at the height of success, without explanation, leaving what is considered by many involved to be your greatest masterpiece unfinished along with tons of other unreleased stuff in the vaults, proceed to burn the proceeds, then refuse to discuss it?
Dan On Aug 24, 2011, at 10:49 AM, "Michiel [moonstorm.nl]" <
michiel@moonstorm.nl> wrote:
Why is it so hard to understand that Bill wants credit for what he does
in the present?
He has done amazing stuff with Jimmy in the KLF-past, they split up and
left magic and mystery for us (the fans)
What Bill is doing these days has nothing to do with the KLF past, so I
can understand that if the audience is filled with KLF fans, the Fans would be disappointed because of the “hey, this isn’t KLF-stuff” and Bill still wouldn’t know if people came for his current project of his past.
Though I must say that he could have been a bit more subtle ;)
Michiel
Van: klf-bounces+michiel=moonstorm.nl@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:
klf-bounces+michiel=moonstorm.nl@mailman.xmission.com] Namens Ross Jarvis
Verzonden: woensdag 24 augustus 2011 12:11 Aan: 'All bound for Mu-Mu Land.' Onderwerp: Re: [KLF] Are the FLK too slim to be the KLF?
A few months back I was contacted by a list member directly. It was around the time I was doing the car.
To cut a long story short, they had had some very close dealings with Jimmy, and during their time together Jimmy mentioned that he had no inclination to have anything to do with the KLF owing mainly to being put off by fans.
If I was to break it down, my own opinion would be that Jimmy is now involved with his art, Bill with The 17. I would imagine that both will have had to work quite hard to distance themselves from their dealings with the KLF in order for their current work to be recognised in its own right. At a 17 talk I went to, Bill invited people to leave if they were there in any way because of the KLF.
It seems like it would be more hypocritical than anything else if Bill and Jimmy had any involvement.
That’s just my input.
From: klf-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto: klf-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of John Milne Sent: 24 August 2011 10:06 To: All bound for Mu-Mu Land. Subject: Re: [KLF] Are the FLK too slim to be the KLF?
Possibly - although Fuck the Millennium was rather pedestrian, I always thought. I think Bill implied this was all part of the whole 1997 2K thing being a "parody" of bands reforming (specifically the Pistols getting together the year before) and the naffness of it. But maybe not. The fact they were sampling the Chemical Brothers on a KLF record always seemed ... odd.
But yeah, if they wanted to do something, the one thing it wouldn't be would be what they've done before.
On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 9:41 AM, Morphy <themorphy@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
The actual music The FLK are creating really lacks the sheer inventiveness of B&J in my opinion. It's unimaginative and the production is mediocre. One thing B&J always did well (apart from arguably the early JAMS stuff) was turn out a well produced product. I don't see why they would drop all of their music business contacts and now be making boring copy & paste music that sounds like it was made in Reason. The use of samples and editing by Cauty on "Space" outstrips this FLK stuff by a few lightyears - and that was 20 years ago. I just think if this was actually B&J they would have pulled out all the stops, and come out with something, well.. better!
_______________________________________________ KLF mailing list KLF@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/klf Report list abuse to list-abuse at studio-nibble.com
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If the had continued as a group, then I'm pretty sure this list wouldn't exist.People would care about the stuff they did back then. The KLF would then just had become like any other 90'act (something you listen to when you are drunk at a shite-party). Ulrik
From: chromatest@azburners.org Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 09:33:25 -0700 To: klf@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [KLF] Are the FLK too slim to be the KLF?
Personally, I think they got writer's block. They couldn't figure out how to complete the black room, so they started getting all these guest artists on to help them... when that wasn't working, they said eff it and to make it "artistic" and meaningful, they deleted the back-catalog and went out the way they did.
On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 9:24 AM, Dan T. Hutchins <danthutchins@gmail.com> wrote:
To be fair to the fans, is it unreasonable for them to be curious when you quit mysteriouly at the height of success, without explanation, leaving what is considered by many involved to be your greatest masterpiece unfinished along with tons of other unreleased stuff in the vaults, proceed to burn the proceeds, then refuse to discuss it?
Dan On Aug 24, 2011, at 10:49 AM, "Michiel [moonstorm.nl]" <michiel@moonstorm.nl> wrote:
Why is it so hard to understand that Bill wants credit for what he does in the present?
He has done amazing stuff with Jimmy in the KLF-past, they split up and left magic and mystery for us (the fans)
What Bill is doing these days has nothing to do with the KLF past, so I can understand that if the audience is filled with KLF fans, the Fans would be disappointed because of the “hey, this isn’t KLF-stuff” and Bill still wouldn’t know if people came for his current project of his past.
Though I must say that he could have been a bit more subtle ;)
Michiel
Van: klf-bounces+michiel=moonstorm.nl@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:klf-bounces+michiel=moonstorm.nl@mailman.xmission.com] Namens Ross Jarvis Verzonden: woensdag 24 augustus 2011 12:11 Aan: 'All bound for Mu-Mu Land.' Onderwerp: Re: [KLF] Are the FLK too slim to be the KLF?
A few months back I was contacted by a list member directly. It was around the time I was doing the car.
To cut a long story short, they had had some very close dealings with Jimmy, and during their time together Jimmy mentioned that he had no inclination to have anything to do with the KLF owing mainly to being put off by fans.
If I was to break it down, my own opinion would be that Jimmy is now involved with his art, Bill with The 17. I would imagine that both will have had to work quite hard to distance themselves from their dealings with the KLF in order for their current work to be recognised in its own right. At a 17 talk I went to, Bill invited people to leave if they were there in any way because of the KLF.
It seems like it would be more hypocritical than anything else if Bill and Jimmy had any involvement.
That’s just my input.
From: klf-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:klf-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of John Milne Sent: 24 August 2011 10:06 To: All bound for Mu-Mu Land. Subject: Re: [KLF] Are the FLK too slim to be the KLF?
Possibly - although Fuck the Millennium was rather pedestrian, I always thought. I think Bill implied this was all part of the whole 1997 2K thing being a "parody" of bands reforming (specifically the Pistols getting together the year before) and the naffness of it. But maybe not. The fact they were sampling the Chemical Brothers on a KLF record always seemed ... odd.
But yeah, if they wanted to do something, the one thing it wouldn't be would be what they've done before.
On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 9:41 AM, Morphy <themorphy@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
The actual music The FLK are creating really lacks the sheer inventiveness of B&J in my opinion. It's unimaginative and the production is mediocre. One thing B&J always did well (apart from arguably the early JAMS stuff) was turn out a well produced product. I don't see why they would drop all of their music business contacts and now be making boring copy & paste music that sounds like it was made in Reason. The use of samples and editing by Cauty on "Space" outstrips this FLK stuff by a few lightyears - and that was 20 years ago. I just think if this was actually B&J they would have pulled out all the stops, and come out with something, well.. better!
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This is true. If Lennon had lived, his smaltzy output could not have been overlooked; if Cobain had lived, he would have slowly turned into Reef; even Amy Winehouse is now stuck in aspic. I know Bill and Jimmy didn't die (although they did both say "we should have had a drugs overdose in the K Foundation documentary) but by deleting the back catalogue, they did the next best thing. Their enigma lives on. The KLF have a lot in common with comedian Chris Morris, I think. Certain, in the early '90s, there was a lot of cross over in their fans, and they both started out sampling and joking around (B&J on vinyl, CM on his radio show). By the mid-'90s, both were short hand for "media terrorism" (whatever that is) with the 2K money burning and "Brass Eye" respectively. Now, 15 years on, Chris Morris is a film director, and a lot of people who went to see "Four Lions" probably have never seen "The Day Today" or "Jam". In short, he has a fan base beyond his original work - because it is still interesting and relevant. B & J's current work is far, far less relevant to most people than Chris Morris' - as a group, people are far more fond of reminiscing about "that Doctor Who tune" than looking into the ethos of "The 17" or Jimmy's CPND stuff. Do something something genuinely popular, though, and they will get new fans outwith the KLF. Until then, it'll still be the old fans and the arty mob. That's what I think, anyway. And I'm probably completely wrong. On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 5:59 PM, Ulrik Brandt <onkelgerhardt@hotmail.com>wrote:
If the had continued as a group, then I'm pretty sure this list wouldn't exist. People would care about the stuff they did back then. The KLF would then just had become like any other 90'act (something you listen to when you are drunk at a shite-party).
Ulrik
From: chromatest@azburners.org Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 09:33:25 -0700 To: klf@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [KLF] Are the FLK too slim to be the KLF?
Personally, I think they got writer's block. They couldn't figure out how to complete the black room, so they started getting all these guest artists on to help them... when that wasn't working, they said eff it and to make it "artistic" and meaningful, they deleted the back-catalog and went out the way they did.
On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 9:24 AM, Dan T. Hutchins <danthutchins@gmail.com> wrote:
To be fair to the fans, is it unreasonable for them to be curious when
you quit mysteriouly at the height of success, without explanation, leaving what is considered by many involved to be your greatest masterpiece unfinished along with tons of other unreleased stuff in the vaults, proceed to burn the proceeds, then refuse to discuss it?
Dan On Aug 24, 2011, at 10:49 AM, "Michiel [moonstorm.nl]" <
michiel@moonstorm.nl> wrote:
Why is it so hard to understand that Bill wants credit for what he does
in the present?
He has done amazing stuff with Jimmy in the KLF-past, they split up and
left magic and mystery for us (the fans)
What Bill is doing these days has nothing to do with the KLF past, so I
can understand that if the audience is filled with KLF fans, the Fans would be disappointed because of the “hey, this isn’t KLF-stuff” and Bill still wouldn’t know if people came for his current project of his past.
Though I must say that he could have been a bit more subtle ;)
Michiel
Van: klf-bounces+michiel=moonstorm.nl@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:
klf-bounces+michiel=moonstorm.nl@mailman.xmission.com] Namens Ross Jarvis
Verzonden: woensdag 24 augustus 2011 12:11 Aan: 'All bound for Mu-Mu Land.' Onderwerp: Re: [KLF] Are the FLK too slim to be the KLF?
A few months back I was contacted by a list member directly. It was around the time I was doing the car.
To cut a long story short, they had had some very close dealings with Jimmy, and during their time together Jimmy mentioned that he had no inclination to have anything to do with the KLF owing mainly to being put off by fans.
If I was to break it down, my own opinion would be that Jimmy is now involved with his art, Bill with The 17. I would imagine that both will have had to work quite hard to distance themselves from their dealings with the KLF in order for their current work to be recognised in its own right. At a 17 talk I went to, Bill invited people to leave if they were there in any way because of the KLF.
It seems like it would be more hypocritical than anything else if Bill and Jimmy had any involvement.
That’s just my input.
From: klf-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto: klf-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of John Milne Sent: 24 August 2011 10:06 To: All bound for Mu-Mu Land. Subject: Re: [KLF] Are the FLK too slim to be the KLF?
Possibly - although Fuck the Millennium was rather pedestrian, I always thought. I think Bill implied this was all part of the whole 1997 2K thing being a "parody" of bands reforming (specifically the Pistols getting together the year before) and the naffness of it. But maybe not. The fact they were sampling the Chemical Brothers on a KLF record always seemed ... odd.
But yeah, if they wanted to do something, the one thing it wouldn't be would be what they've done before.
On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 9:41 AM, Morphy <themorphy@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
The actual music The FLK are creating really lacks the sheer inventiveness of B&J in my opinion. It's unimaginative and the production is mediocre. One thing B&J always did well (apart from arguably the early JAMS stuff) was turn out a well produced product. I don't see why they would drop all of their music business contacts and now be making boring copy & paste music that sounds like it was made in Reason. The use of samples and editing by Cauty on "Space" outstrips this FLK stuff by a few lightyears - and that was 20 years ago. I just think if this was actually B&J they would have pulled out all the stops, and come out with something, well.. better!
_______________________________________________ KLF mailing list KLF@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/klf Report list abuse to list-abuse at studio-nibble.com
_______________________________________________ KLF mailing list KLF@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/klf Report list abuse to list-abuse at studio-nibble.com
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_______________________________________________ KLF mailing list KLF@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/klf Report list abuse to list-abuse at studio-nibble.com
_______________________________________________ KLF mailing list KLF@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/klf Report list abuse to list-abuse at studio-nibble.com
If they truly want to move forward with other endeavors unimpeaded by KLF fans and lingering questions they should just agree to one last Q&A, no holds barred, state they deleted their catalog for a reason and interested parties should track down the catalog on their themselves BUT release all of these things people pester them about for free online as FLAC files for 23 days only: The Black Room (either unfinished or mixed by Stent--sure he would do it for free), Turn Up The Strobe, Love Trance, Sheriff of Mu Mu County, etc. If nothing else they could give them to PVC and he'll get the tracks to the true believers and use the proceeds to fund his spin, buy cheap beer for drunks, whatever. Bottomline is, if they want to put the past behind them they should just clear the decks. Nature abhores a vacuum and they left a big one the way they went out. Dan On Aug 24, 2011, at 12:33 PM, "Chromatest J. Pantsmaker" <chromatest@azburners.org> wrote:
Personally, I think they got writer's block. They couldn't figure out how to complete the black room, so they started getting all these guest artists on to help them... when that wasn't working, they said eff it and to make it "artistic" and meaningful, they deleted the back-catalog and went out the way they did.
On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 9:24 AM, Dan T. Hutchins <danthutchins@gmail.com> wrote:
To be fair to the fans, is it unreasonable for them to be curious when you quit mysteriouly at the height of success, without explanation, leaving what is considered by many involved to be your greatest masterpiece unfinished along with tons of other unreleased stuff in the vaults, proceed to burn the proceeds, then refuse to discuss it?
Dan On Aug 24, 2011, at 10:49 AM, "Michiel [moonstorm.nl]" <michiel@moonstorm.nl> wrote:
Why is it so hard to understand that Bill wants credit for what he does in the present?
He has done amazing stuff with Jimmy in the KLF-past, they split up and left magic and mystery for us (the fans)
What Bill is doing these days has nothing to do with the KLF past, so I can understand that if the audience is filled with KLF fans, the Fans would be disappointed because of the “hey, this isn’t KLF-stuff” and Bill still wouldn’t know if people came for his current project of his past.
Though I must say that he could have been a bit more subtle ;)
Michiel
Van: klf-bounces+michiel=moonstorm.nl@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:klf-bounces+michiel=moonstorm.nl@mailman.xmission.com] Namens Ross Jarvis Verzonden: woensdag 24 augustus 2011 12:11 Aan: 'All bound for Mu-Mu Land.' Onderwerp: Re: [KLF] Are the FLK too slim to be the KLF?
A few months back I was contacted by a list member directly. It was around the time I was doing the car.
To cut a long story short, they had had some very close dealings with Jimmy, and during their time together Jimmy mentioned that he had no inclination to have anything to do with the KLF owing mainly to being put off by fans.
If I was to break it down, my own opinion would be that Jimmy is now involved with his art, Bill with The 17. I would imagine that both will have had to work quite hard to distance themselves from their dealings with the KLF in order for their current work to be recognised in its own right. At a 17 talk I went to, Bill invited people to leave if they were there in any way because of the KLF.
It seems like it would be more hypocritical than anything else if Bill and Jimmy had any involvement.
That’s just my input.
From: klf-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:klf-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of John Milne Sent: 24 August 2011 10:06 To: All bound for Mu-Mu Land. Subject: Re: [KLF] Are the FLK too slim to be the KLF?
Possibly - although Fuck the Millennium was rather pedestrian, I always thought. I think Bill implied this was all part of the whole 1997 2K thing being a "parody" of bands reforming (specifically the Pistols getting together the year before) and the naffness of it. But maybe not. The fact they were sampling the Chemical Brothers on a KLF record always seemed ... odd.
But yeah, if they wanted to do something, the one thing it wouldn't be would be what they've done before.
On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 9:41 AM, Morphy <themorphy@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
The actual music The FLK are creating really lacks the sheer inventiveness of B&J in my opinion. It's unimaginative and the production is mediocre. One thing B&J always did well (apart from arguably the early JAMS stuff) was turn out a well produced product. I don't see why they would drop all of their music business contacts and now be making boring copy & paste music that sounds like it was made in Reason. The use of samples and editing by Cauty on "Space" outstrips this FLK stuff by a few lightyears - and that was 20 years ago. I just think if this was actually B&J they would have pulled out all the stops, and come out with something, well.. better!
_______________________________________________ KLF mailing list KLF@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/klf Report list abuse to list-abuse at studio-nibble.com
_______________________________________________ KLF mailing list KLF@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/klf Report list abuse to list-abuse at studio-nibble.com
_______________________________________________ KLF mailing list KLF@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/klf Report list abuse to list-abuse at studio-nibble.com
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Nice, finally the list is a bit busy again by a 'strange' remark from Bill. Good to see. Dare I say I even read a bit of 'anger' in some of your comments? ;) (or do I confuse it with impatience after 2 decades or something, haha....) On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 7:07 PM, Dan T. Hutchins <danthutchins@gmail.com>wrote:
If they truly want to move forward with other endeavors unimpeaded by KLF fans and lingering questions they should just agree to one last Q&A, no holds barred, state they deleted their catalog for a reason and interested parties should track down the catalog on their themselves BUT release all of these things people pester them about for free online as FLAC files for 23 days only: The Black Room (either unfinished or mixed by Stent--sure he would do it for free), Turn Up The Strobe, Love Trance, Sheriff of Mu Mu County, etc. If nothing else they could give them to PVC and he'll get the tracks to the true believers and use the proceeds to fund his spin, buy cheap beer for drunks, whatever. Bottomline is, if they want to put the past behind them they should just clear the decks. Nature abhores a vacuum and they left a big one the way they went out.
Dan
On Aug 24, 2011, at 12:33 PM, "Chromatest J. Pantsmaker" < chromatest@azburners.org> wrote:
Personally, I think they got writer's block. They couldn't figure out how to complete the black room, so they started getting all these guest artists on to help them... when that wasn't working, they said eff it and to make it "artistic" and meaningful, they deleted the back-catalog and went out the way they did.
On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 9:24 AM, Dan T. Hutchins <danthutchins@gmail.com>
wrote:
To be fair to the fans, is it unreasonable for them to be curious when
you quit mysteriouly at the height of success, without explanation, leaving what is considered by many involved to be your greatest masterpiece unfinished along with tons of other unreleased stuff in the vaults, proceed to burn the proceeds, then refuse to discuss it?
Dan On Aug 24, 2011, at 10:49 AM, "Michiel [moonstorm.nl]" <
michiel@moonstorm.nl> wrote:
Why is it so hard to understand that Bill wants credit for what he does
in the present?
He has done amazing stuff with Jimmy in the KLF-past, they split up and
left magic and mystery for us (the fans)
What Bill is doing these days has nothing to do with the KLF past, so I
can understand that if the audience is filled with KLF fans, the Fans would be disappointed because of the “hey, this isn’t KLF-stuff” and Bill still wouldn’t know if people came for his current project of his past.
Though I must say that he could have been a bit more subtle ;)
Michiel
Van: klf-bounces+michiel=moonstorm.nl@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:
klf-bounces+michiel=moonstorm.nl@mailman.xmission.com] Namens Ross Jarvis
Verzonden: woensdag 24 augustus 2011 12:11 Aan: 'All bound for Mu-Mu Land.' Onderwerp: Re: [KLF] Are the FLK too slim to be the KLF?
A few months back I was contacted by a list member directly. It was around the time I was doing the car.
To cut a long story short, they had had some very close dealings with Jimmy, and during their time together Jimmy mentioned that he had no inclination to have anything to do with the KLF owing mainly to being put off by fans.
If I was to break it down, my own opinion would be that Jimmy is now involved with his art, Bill with The 17. I would imagine that both will have had to work quite hard to distance themselves from their dealings with the KLF in order for their current work to be recognised in its own right. At a 17 talk I went to, Bill invited people to leave if they were there in any way because of the KLF.
It seems like it would be more hypocritical than anything else if Bill and Jimmy had any involvement.
That’s just my input.
From: klf-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto: klf-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of John Milne Sent: 24 August 2011 10:06 To: All bound for Mu-Mu Land. Subject: Re: [KLF] Are the FLK too slim to be the KLF?
Possibly - although Fuck the Millennium was rather pedestrian, I always thought. I think Bill implied this was all part of the whole 1997 2K thing being a "parody" of bands reforming (specifically the Pistols getting together the year before) and the naffness of it. But maybe not. The fact they were sampling the Chemical Brothers on a KLF record always seemed ... odd.
But yeah, if they wanted to do something, the one thing it wouldn't be would be what they've done before.
On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 9:41 AM, Morphy <themorphy@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
The actual music The FLK are creating really lacks the sheer inventiveness of B&J in my opinion. It's unimaginative and the production is mediocre. One thing B&J always did well (apart from arguably the early JAMS stuff) was turn out a well produced product. I don't see why they would drop all of their music business contacts and now be making boring copy & paste music that sounds like it was made in Reason. The use of samples and editing by Cauty on "Space" outstrips this FLK stuff by a few lightyears - and that was 20 years ago. I just think if this was actually B&J they would have pulled out all the stops, and come out with something, well.. better!
_______________________________________________ KLF mailing list KLF@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/klf Report list abuse to list-abuse at studio-nibble.com
_______________________________________________ KLF mailing list KLF@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/klf Report list abuse to list-abuse at studio-nibble.com
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Not anger, more mystification. They want to have it both ways. They went out with this big mysterious, well, I don't know what to call it; self-destructive incomplete sentence but they somehow expect their fanbase to not question it, move-on and lap-up whatever unrelated projects they decide to put out. Ususally when an artist goes out in this manner they pull a JD Salinger, move to a cabin in the woods, and are never heard from again. There's nothing wrong with an artist wanting to move on and try new things, but people crave closure and an artist really needs to provide it if they want their new material be be accepted on its own terms. At least when Curtis, Lennon, Cobain et al died there was closure and greedy relatives to mine the archives and give the fans the remainder of their material. If feel that if B&J want to break-away from the KLF legacy they really need to address it head-on and put out those unreleased rarities that keep the fand talking. Hey, we know these things exist, PVC has practically turned himself into a KLF Communications imprint of unreleased stuff and we can usually expect an item a year from him like clockwork. If they don't want to reissue the old stuff fair enough, but the fans aren't going to release these guys from the past until they answer some questions and pony up the rest of their mythical archive. It's just human nature. Dan Hutchins On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 1:40 PM, Martijn van Rheenen <rheenen@gmail.com>wrote:
Nice, finally the list is a bit busy again by a 'strange' remark from Bill. Good to see. Dare I say I even read a bit of 'anger' in some of your comments? ;) (or do I confuse it with impatience after 2 decades or something, haha....)
On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 7:07 PM, Dan T. Hutchins <danthutchins@gmail.com>wrote:
If they truly want to move forward with other endeavors unimpeaded by KLF fans and lingering questions they should just agree to one last Q&A, no holds barred, state they deleted their catalog for a reason and interested parties should track down the catalog on their themselves BUT release all of these things people pester them about for free online as FLAC files for 23 days only: The Black Room (either unfinished or mixed by Stent--sure he would do it for free), Turn Up The Strobe, Love Trance, Sheriff of Mu Mu County, etc. If nothing else they could give them to PVC and he'll get the tracks to the true believers and use the proceeds to fund his spin, buy cheap beer for drunks, whatever. Bottomline is, if they want to put the past behind them they should just clear the decks. Nature abhores a vacuum and they left a big one the way they went out.
Dan
On Aug 24, 2011, at 12:33 PM, "Chromatest J. Pantsmaker" < chromatest@azburners.org> wrote:
Personally, I think they got writer's block. They couldn't figure out how to complete the black room, so they started getting all these guest artists on to help them... when that wasn't working, they said eff it and to make it "artistic" and meaningful, they deleted the back-catalog and went out the way they did.
On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 9:24 AM, Dan T. Hutchins <
danthutchins@gmail.com> wrote:
To be fair to the fans, is it unreasonable for them to be curious when
you quit mysteriouly at the height of success, without explanation, leaving what is considered by many involved to be your greatest masterpiece unfinished along with tons of other unreleased stuff in the vaults, proceed to burn the proceeds, then refuse to discuss it?
Dan On Aug 24, 2011, at 10:49 AM, "Michiel [moonstorm.nl]" <
michiel@moonstorm.nl> wrote:
Why is it so hard to understand that Bill wants credit for what he does
in the present?
He has done amazing stuff with Jimmy in the KLF-past, they split up and
left magic and mystery for us (the fans)
What Bill is doing these days has nothing to do with the KLF past, so I
can understand that if the audience is filled with KLF fans, the Fans would be disappointed because of the “hey, this isn’t KLF-stuff” and Bill still wouldn’t know if people came for his current project of his past.
Though I must say that he could have been a bit more subtle ;)
Michiel
Van: klf-bounces+michiel=moonstorm.nl@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:
klf-bounces+michiel=moonstorm.nl@mailman.xmission.com] Namens Ross Jarvis
Verzonden: woensdag 24 augustus 2011 12:11 Aan: 'All bound for Mu-Mu Land.' Onderwerp: Re: [KLF] Are the FLK too slim to be the KLF?
A few months back I was contacted by a list member directly. It was around the time I was doing the car.
To cut a long story short, they had had some very close dealings with Jimmy, and during their time together Jimmy mentioned that he had no inclination to have anything to do with the KLF owing mainly to being put off by fans.
If I was to break it down, my own opinion would be that Jimmy is now involved with his art, Bill with The 17. I would imagine that both will have had to work quite hard to distance themselves from their dealings with the KLF in order for their current work to be recognised in its own right. At a 17 talk I went to, Bill invited people to leave if they were there in any way because of the KLF.
It seems like it would be more hypocritical than anything else if Bill and Jimmy had any involvement.
That’s just my input.
From: klf-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto: klf-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of John Milne Sent: 24 August 2011 10:06 To: All bound for Mu-Mu Land. Subject: Re: [KLF] Are the FLK too slim to be the KLF?
Possibly - although Fuck the Millennium was rather pedestrian, I always thought. I think Bill implied this was all part of the whole 1997 2K thing being a "parody" of bands reforming (specifically the Pistols getting together the year before) and the naffness of it. But maybe not. The fact they were sampling the Chemical Brothers on a KLF record always seemed ... odd.
But yeah, if they wanted to do something, the one thing it wouldn't be would be what they've done before.
On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 9:41 AM, Morphy <themorphy@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
The actual music The FLK are creating really lacks the sheer inventiveness of B&J in my opinion. It's unimaginative and the production is mediocre. One thing B&J always did well (apart from arguably the early JAMS stuff) was turn out a well produced product. I don't see why they would drop all of their music business contacts and now be making boring copy & paste music that sounds like it was made in Reason. The use of samples and editing by Cauty on "Space" outstrips this FLK stuff by a few lightyears - and that was 20 years ago. I just think if this was actually B&J they would have pulled out all the stops, and come out with something, well.. better!
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The KLF did a lot of things that made me think. There will never be an answer or closure to many of the things they made me think about. So I will continue to think. That, to me, is the point. That's 'art'. When I finished reading the Illuminatus Trilogy, I felt the same way as I feel now about The KLF. What was that all about? What was the point? It could have been better if.. We have to accept the contradictions or we will always be Waiting, which could be a good thing. From: klf-bounces+rich=j1sproductions.com@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:klf-bounces+rich=j1sproductions.com@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Dan Hutchins Sent: 24 August 2011 19:41 To: All bound for Mu-Mu Land. Subject: Re: [KLF] Are the FLK too slim to be the KLF? Not anger, more mystification. They want to have it both ways. They went out with this big mysterious, well, I don't know what to call it; self-destructive incomplete sentence but they somehow expect their fanbase to not question it, move-on and lap-up whatever unrelated projects they decide to put out. Ususally when an artist goes out in this manner they pull a JD Salinger, move to a cabin in the woods, and are never heard from again. There's nothing wrong with an artist wanting to move on and try new things, but people crave closure and an artist really needs to provide it if they want their new material be be accepted on its own terms. At least when Curtis, Lennon, Cobain et al died there was closure and greedy relatives to mine the archives and give the fans the remainder of their material. If feel that if B&J want to break-away from the KLF legacy they really need to address it head-on and put out those unreleased rarities that keep the fand talking. Hey, we know these things exist, PVC has practically turned himself into a KLF Communications imprint of unreleased stuff and we can usually expect an item a year from him like clockwork. If they don't want to reissue the old stuff fair enough, but the fans aren't going to release these guys from the past until they answer some questions and pony up the rest of their mythical archive. It's just human nature. Dan Hutchins
Not trying to pick a fight (truly), but I've tried digesting many of their post KLF works and there's nothing compelling about them. They're not bad, but my only interest in either of them is their former relation to the KLF. Asking me to abandon that and invest in their latter works on their own merits is A LOT to ask. There are soany more interesting thungs out there these days, when one discounts their KLF past, B&J's latter projects just don't measure up. In a way, I think that not providing some closure, especially after their statement has stood for 20 years is hindering their current works much more than it bothers us. If they would have burnt a million quid then disappeared, THAT would have been something; but continuing to hang around, push off mediocre work whilst denying past glories, well, it kinda reminds me of George Burns after Gracie Allen :-) Dan On Aug 24, 2011, at 6:11 PM, Chris Renwick <dejaya@gmail.com> wrote:
Rich wins.
:-)
On 24 August 2011 23:01, RiCh! <rich@j1sproductions.com> wrote:
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"Yeah, but that was 20 years ago. They made their statement and it's stood the test of time. Would love a catalog reissue." This is a huge internal contradiction.
If they truly want to move forward with other endeavors unimpeaded by KLF fans and lingering questions they should just agree to one last Q&A, no
They're already unimpeded. They have 20 years of work that no-one's stopped them from putting out.
holds barred, state they deleted their catalog for a reason and interested parties should track down the catalog on their themselves BUT release all of these things people pester them about for free online as FLAC files for
Again, this is contradictory. And no-one's pestering them about this stuff - they're not on this list full of gigantic spods, they're dealing with galleries and arts funding bodies who barely know the records they actually had hits with, let alone about records they never actually made or demos that at best exist on a third-generation cassette.
23 days only: The Black Room (either unfinished or mixed by Stent--sure he would do it for free),
You've heard it unfinished. It's been around in that form - ie some shitty tapes that sound like a band jamming in a garage, because that's what they are - for 20 years and still is, online. How would it be different to upload it to yet another site or server? And why in flying fuck would Mark Stent take, say, two weeks off of mixing enormous major-label pop records for thousands and thousands of pounds - let alone six months to "finish" it - for free? Would you take six months off your job to go and do the same thing for free, at the whim of three to five angry nerds on the internet? Who are angry about something from TWO DECADES AGO?
Turn Up The Strobe, Love Trance, Sheriff of Mu Mu County, etc. If nothing else they could give them to PVC and he'll get the tracks to the true believers and use the proceeds to fund his spin, buy cheap beer for drunks, whatever. Bottomline is, if they want to put the past behind them they should just clear the decks. Nature abhores a vacuum and they left a big one the way they went out.
They can't release songs that DON'T ACTUALLY EXIST. These records didn't come out because their authors WEREN'T HAPPY WITH and DIDN'T FINISH THEM. They're not being hidden from you in some cruel conspiracy - bands abandon songs or versions of recordings or even entire albums that aren't working out *all the time*. It's part of the writing process. They did clear the decks: they deleted all of the great, finished records that they had control over, that weren't already out of print (hint: the majority of their catalogue was already out of print at the time. This is what happens with singles and any record printed in limited capacities.) "Not anger, more mystification. They want to have it both ways. They went out with this big mysterious, well, I don't know what to call it; self-destructive incomplete sentence but they somehow expect their fanbase to not question it, move-on and lap-up whatever unrelated projects they decide to put out." No. They specifically DON'T expect "their fanbase" to lap up whatever unrelated projects they put out. Jimmy's not selling editions of 13 prints in single galleries in the south of England because he wants 1,000,000 people who bought Justified & Ancient in 1991 to book flights there and buy one. Bill's not making soup for a family of five in the Hebrides because he.... jesus, is there any point in even typing this? Your attitude is just completely delusional, and I don't know if basic maths is going to be accepted. They don't give a shit, at all, about whether KLF fans engage with their new works. I'm sure they don't mind if people who liked that work also like this work, but none of it is *directed* at KLF fans or marketed to them in any way. (FTR: I've liked some of Jimmy's work, thought lots of it is pissweak, and am not in the market for posters of the Queen in a gasmask; I buy Bill's books because he's a really great writer, but never finished The Wild Highway, through no fault of Drummond's.) "There's nothing wrong with an artist wanting to move on and try new things, but people crave closure and an artist really needs to provide it if they want their new material be be accepted on its own terms. At least when Curtis, Lennon, Cobain et al died there was closure and greedy relatives to mine the archives and give the fans the remainder of their material." This is just gross, really. Your sense of entitlement is weird and creepy, and the best example of why Jimmy would be put off ever having opened up the archives. The closure is THEY PUT OUT SOME RECORDS ONCE. Then they stopped putting out records. If you bought those records and liked them, or heard them on the radio and liked them, THEY DON'T OWE YOU ANYTHING ELSE. This is like me following you around, wheedling that you ought to rewrite your third geography essay from second term 1989, over and over, because you said you'd forgotten to mention Bolivian agriculture when you handed it in, so now I deserve to get to read that, because you thought about it once. And you should still have your rough notes, and should give me those too, so I can put them on the internet for everyone else to read. (Or that you should go back to doing the company accounts in a ruled ledger, so that I can put a pile of ledgers in my cupboard and not look at them, but know they're there, instead of you managing an office of twenty people and being able to afford to put your eldest through uni. Whatever. Feel free to offer biographical details for both periods so we can tailor this analogy - you really do owe it to the list. We need closure.)
Dude, just a fan, that was a really fucked-up rant. Just trying to have a convetsation, the KLF don't owe me anything but truth be told only old school fans buy their new projects...they're not impresiing anyone these days. Tell you what, email PVC and tell him to stop selling these rarities that don't exist. Dan On Aug 24, 2011, at 10:15 PM, Chris <mute@tpg.com.au> wrote:
"Yeah, but that was 20 years ago. They made their statement and it's stood the test of time. Would love a catalog reissue."
This is a huge internal contradiction.
If they truly want to move forward with other endeavors unimpeaded by KLF fans and lingering questions they should just agree to one last Q&A, no
They're already unimpeded. They have 20 years of work that no-one's stopped them from putting out.
holds barred, state they deleted their catalog for a reason and interested parties should track down the catalog on their themselves BUT release all of these things people pester them about for free online as FLAC files for
Again, this is contradictory. And no-one's pestering them about this stuff - they're not on this list full of gigantic spods, they're dealing with galleries and arts funding bodies who barely know the records they actually had hits with, let alone about records they never actually made or demos that at best exist on a third-generation cassette.
23 days only: The Black Room (either unfinished or mixed by Stent--sure he would do it for free),
You've heard it unfinished. It's been around in that form - ie some shitty tapes that sound like a band jamming in a garage, because that's what they are - for 20 years and still is, online. How would it be different to upload it to yet another site or server?
And why in flying fuck would Mark Stent take, say, two weeks off of mixing enormous major-label pop records for thousands and thousands of pounds - let alone six months to "finish" it - for free? Would you take six months off your job to go and do the same thing for free, at the whim of three to five angry nerds on the internet? Who are angry about something from TWO DECADES AGO?
Turn Up The Strobe, Love Trance, Sheriff of Mu Mu County, etc. If nothing else they could give them to PVC and he'll get the tracks to the true believers and use the proceeds to fund his spin, buy cheap beer for drunks, whatever. Bottomline is, if they want to put the past behind them they should just clear the decks. Nature abhores a vacuum and they left a big one the way they went out.
They can't release songs that DON'T ACTUALLY EXIST. These records didn't come out because their authors WEREN'T HAPPY WITH and DIDN'T FINISH THEM. They're not being hidden from you in some cruel conspiracy - bands abandon songs or versions of recordings or even entire albums that aren't working out *all the time*. It's part of the writing process.
They did clear the decks: they deleted all of the great, finished records that they had control over, that weren't already out of print (hint: the majority of their catalogue was already out of print at the time. This is what happens with singles and any record printed in limited capacities.)
"Not anger, more mystification. They want to have it both ways. They went out with this big mysterious, well, I don't know what to call it; self-destructive incomplete sentence but they somehow expect their fanbase to not question it, move-on and lap-up whatever unrelated projects they decide to put out."
No. They specifically DON'T expect "their fanbase" to lap up whatever unrelated projects they put out. Jimmy's not selling editions of 13 prints in single galleries in the south of England because he wants 1,000,000 people who bought Justified & Ancient in 1991 to book flights there and buy one. Bill's not making soup for a family of five in the Hebrides because he.... jesus, is there any point in even typing this? Your attitude is just completely delusional, and I don't know if basic maths is going to be accepted.
They don't give a shit, at all, about whether KLF fans engage with their new works. I'm sure they don't mind if people who liked that work also like this work, but none of it is *directed* at KLF fans or marketed to them in any way. (FTR: I've liked some of Jimmy's work, thought lots of it is pissweak, and am not in the market for posters of the Queen in a gasmask; I buy Bill's books because he's a really great writer, but never finished The Wild Highway, through no fault of Drummond's.)
"There's nothing wrong with an artist wanting to move on and try new things, but people crave closure and an artist really needs to provide it if they want their new material be be accepted on its own terms. At least when Curtis, Lennon, Cobain et al died there was closure and greedy relatives to mine the archives and give the fans the remainder of their material."
This is just gross, really. Your sense of entitlement is weird and creepy, and the best example of why Jimmy would be put off ever having opened up the archives.
The closure is THEY PUT OUT SOME RECORDS ONCE. Then they stopped putting out records. If you bought those records and liked them, or heard them on the radio and liked them, THEY DON'T OWE YOU ANYTHING ELSE.
This is like me following you around, wheedling that you ought to rewrite your third geography essay from second term 1989, over and over, because you said you'd forgotten to mention Bolivian agriculture when you handed it in, so now I deserve to get to read that, because you thought about it once. And you should still have your rough notes, and should give me those too, so I can put them on the internet for everyone else to read.
(Or that you should go back to doing the company accounts in a ruled ledger, so that I can put a pile of ledgers in my cupboard and not look at them, but know they're there, instead of you managing an office of twenty people and being able to afford to put your eldest through uni. Whatever. Feel free to offer biographical details for both periods so we can tailor this analogy - you really do owe it to the list. We need closure.)
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Whew. I wasn¹t upset like Chris here was, but my general take also went along the lines of ³Bill and Jimmy don¹t owe you anything². I don¹t get it, sorry. -- Micah Stupak micah@benthic.cc On 24/08/11 19.15, "Chris" <mute@tpg.com.au> wrote:
This is just gross, really. Your sense of entitlement is weird and creepy, and the best example of why Jimmy would be put off ever having opened up the archives.
No, nobody owes me anything. But if it's there, why not put it out? I've bought a lot of Bill's stuff because I was a fan. I don't owe these guys anything either and I can promise you non KLF people are not buying their stuff. Dan On Aug 24, 2011, at 10:33 PM, Micah Stupak <micah@benthic.cc> wrote:
Whew.
I wasn¹t upset like Chris here was, but my general take also went along the lines of ³Bill and Jimmy don¹t owe you anything². I don¹t get it, sorry.
-- Micah Stupak micah@benthic.cc
On 24/08/11 19.15, "Chris" <mute@tpg.com.au> wrote:
This is just gross, really. Your sense of entitlement is weird and creepy, and the best example of why Jimmy would be put off ever having opened up the archives.
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I may have misunderstood you, but to clarify (or otherwise), did you just say that the works that Bill and Jimmy put out now are not viewed/purchased/appreciated by non KLF fans? If you did that is absolutely incorrect. If you didn't I misunderstood you. Rich hit the nail on the head. A few messages back. Those that view their work as 'art' find it easier to move forward, whereas those that view them as just pop stars feel that something has been left unfinished. -----Original Message----- From: klf-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:klf-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Dan T. Hutchins Sent: 25 August 2011 03:49 To: All bound for Mu-Mu Land. Subject: Re: [KLF] Are the FLK too slim to be the KLF? No, nobody owes me anything. But if it's there, why not put it out? I've bought a lot of Bill's stuff because I was a fan. I don't owe these guys anything either and I can promise you non KLF people are not buying their stuff. Dan
I like some of jimmys new ventures & a few of bills readings & rants that either get posted on here or i happen to find somewhere on the www.... But saying that i'm very much even now WAITING for that moment... "old DAT Tape found somewhere under the floor boards having fell from a mixing desk at a party somewhere in sw london 2 roads from where my mum lives.... A tune that makes me go OMG... its a tune THEY never released... " Until that day anything k-related: The KLF or Knightrider still rocks... Lol Sent from KITT On 25 Aug 2011, at 09:33, "Ross Jarvis" <jarvmeister@gmail.com> wrote:
I may have misunderstood you, but to clarify (or otherwise), did you just say that the works that Bill and Jimmy put out now are not viewed/purchased/appreciated by non KLF fans?
If you did that is absolutely incorrect. If you didn't I misunderstood you.
Rich hit the nail on the head. A few messages back. Those that view their work as 'art' find it easier to move forward, whereas those that view them as just pop stars feel that something has been left unfinished.
-----Original Message----- From: klf-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:klf-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Dan T. Hutchins Sent: 25 August 2011 03:49 To: All bound for Mu-Mu Land. Subject: Re: [KLF] Are the FLK too slim to be the KLF?
No, nobody owes me anything. But if it's there, why not put it out? I've bought a lot of Bill's stuff because I was a fan. I don't owe these guys anything either and I can promise you non KLF people are not buying their stuff.
Dan
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BTW, Stent himself said there were two completely finished mixed tracks from The Black Room: " Terminator 10" and "The Black Room" plus a bunch of other tracks that weren't mixed. Said the whole thing was brilliant and The KLF taught him how live mix. I think he might do it. Clips of "The Sheriff of Mu Mu County" have appeared in various KLF documentaries. PVC has confirmed that he has recovered the real "Love Trance" frim Jimmy. This stuff does exist. Have tried reading Bill's books and following Jimmy's art...don't care for it. No way I could stalk these guys...I live in Detroit. Just want to hear some good tunes. I'm the creepy one? Hell, people are buying weird John Lennon remix albums 30 years on; what makes me strange for wanting a little more from the vault? Dan On Aug 24, 2011, at 10:15 PM, Chris <mute@tpg.com.au> wrote:
"Yeah, but that was 20 years ago. They made their statement and it's stood the test of time. Would love a catalog reissue."
This is a huge internal contradiction.
If they truly want to move forward with other endeavors unimpeaded by KLF fans and lingering questions they should just agree to one last Q&A, no
They're already unimpeded. They have 20 years of work that no-one's stopped them from putting out.
holds barred, state they deleted their catalog for a reason and interested parties should track down the catalog on their themselves BUT release all of these things people pester them about for free online as FLAC files for
Again, this is contradictory. And no-one's pestering them about this stuff - they're not on this list full of gigantic spods, they're dealing with galleries and arts funding bodies who barely know the records they actually had hits with, let alone about records they never actually made or demos that at best exist on a third-generation cassette.
23 days only: The Black Room (either unfinished or mixed by Stent--sure he would do it for free),
You've heard it unfinished. It's been around in that form - ie some shitty tapes that sound like a band jamming in a garage, because that's what they are - for 20 years and still is, online. How would it be different to upload it to yet another site or server?
And why in flying fuck would Mark Stent take, say, two weeks off of mixing enormous major-label pop records for thousands and thousands of pounds - let alone six months to "finish" it - for free? Would you take six months off your job to go and do the same thing for free, at the whim of three to five angry nerds on the internet? Who are angry about something from TWO DECADES AGO?
Turn Up The Strobe, Love Trance, Sheriff of Mu Mu County, etc. If nothing else they could give them to PVC and he'll get the tracks to the true believers and use the proceeds to fund his spin, buy cheap beer for drunks, whatever. Bottomline is, if they want to put the past behind them they should just clear the decks. Nature abhores a vacuum and they left a big one the way they went out.
They can't release songs that DON'T ACTUALLY EXIST. These records didn't come out because their authors WEREN'T HAPPY WITH and DIDN'T FINISH THEM. They're not being hidden from you in some cruel conspiracy - bands abandon songs or versions of recordings or even entire albums that aren't working out *all the time*. It's part of the writing process.
They did clear the decks: they deleted all of the great, finished records that they had control over, that weren't already out of print (hint: the majority of their catalogue was already out of print at the time. This is what happens with singles and any record printed in limited capacities.)
"Not anger, more mystification. They want to have it both ways. They went out with this big mysterious, well, I don't know what to call it; self-destructive incomplete sentence but they somehow expect their fanbase to not question it, move-on and lap-up whatever unrelated projects they decide to put out."
No. They specifically DON'T expect "their fanbase" to lap up whatever unrelated projects they put out. Jimmy's not selling editions of 13 prints in single galleries in the south of England because he wants 1,000,000 people who bought Justified & Ancient in 1991 to book flights there and buy one. Bill's not making soup for a family of five in the Hebrides because he.... jesus, is there any point in even typing this? Your attitude is just completely delusional, and I don't know if basic maths is going to be accepted.
They don't give a shit, at all, about whether KLF fans engage with their new works. I'm sure they don't mind if people who liked that work also like this work, but none of it is *directed* at KLF fans or marketed to them in any way. (FTR: I've liked some of Jimmy's work, thought lots of it is pissweak, and am not in the market for posters of the Queen in a gasmask; I buy Bill's books because he's a really great writer, but never finished The Wild Highway, through no fault of Drummond's.)
"There's nothing wrong with an artist wanting to move on and try new things, but people crave closure and an artist really needs to provide it if they want their new material be be accepted on its own terms. At least when Curtis, Lennon, Cobain et al died there was closure and greedy relatives to mine the archives and give the fans the remainder of their material."
This is just gross, really. Your sense of entitlement is weird and creepy, and the best example of why Jimmy would be put off ever having opened up the archives.
The closure is THEY PUT OUT SOME RECORDS ONCE. Then they stopped putting out records. If you bought those records and liked them, or heard them on the radio and liked them, THEY DON'T OWE YOU ANYTHING ELSE.
This is like me following you around, wheedling that you ought to rewrite your third geography essay from second term 1989, over and over, because you said you'd forgotten to mention Bolivian agriculture when you handed it in, so now I deserve to get to read that, because you thought about it once. And you should still have your rough notes, and should give me those too, so I can put them on the internet for everyone else to read.
(Or that you should go back to doing the company accounts in a ruled ledger, so that I can put a pile of ledgers in my cupboard and not look at them, but know they're there, instead of you managing an office of twenty people and being able to afford to put your eldest through uni. Whatever. Feel free to offer biographical details for both periods so we can tailor this analogy - you really do owe it to the list. We need closure.)
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PVC is very mysterious about this stuff and he's only mentioned it once. Not sure, but I think he's trying to dole out one rarity a year to fund the M25 spin. He did mention to me that the amount of unreleased KLF material outside of B&Js hands is very, very limited so he is releasing it very sparingly. When I've asked him directly about what he has he usually doesn't answer, although the "real" Love Trance was one thing he did mention. You can try asking him, but I doubt he'll respond. Dan On Aug 25, 2011, at 2:39 PM, Antti Lavio <antti.lavio@possu.org> wrote:
On 25.8.2011 5:45, Dan T. Hutchins wrote:
PVC has confirmed that he has recovered the real "Love Trance" frim Jimmy. This stuff does exist.
Somebody needs to tell something. Now.
-- anttil.
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OK, went back through my emails and found the quote. He asked for discretion so I won't repost the entire message but he did mention "The forensic style research has also turned up what I believe is the actual “pure trance” version of Love Trance… this needs some restoration work to clean it up before it could be released and I am talking to a couple of friends about doing just that…" Dan On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 3:25 PM, Dan T. Hutchins <danthutchins@gmail.com>wrote:
PVC is very mysterious about this stuff and he's only mentioned it once. Not sure, but I think he's trying to dole out one rarity a year to fund the M25 spin. He did mention to me that the amount of unreleased KLF material outside of B&Js hands is very, very limited so he is releasing it very sparingly. When I've asked him directly about what he has he usually doesn't answer, although the "real" Love Trance was one thing he did mention. You can try asking him, but I doubt he'll respond.
Dan
On Aug 25, 2011, at 2:39 PM, Antti Lavio <antti.lavio@possu.org> wrote:
On 25.8.2011 5:45, Dan T. Hutchins wrote:
PVC has confirmed that he has recovered the real "Love Trance" frim
Jimmy. This stuff does exist.
Somebody needs to tell something. Now.
-- anttil.
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On 25.8.2011 22:25, Dan T. Hutchins wrote:
PVC is very mysterious about this stuff and he's only mentioned it once. Not sure, but I think he's trying to dole out one rarity a year to fund the M25 spin.
Well...if this is true and will be released, I don't think PVC has to worry about next years M25 funding.. ;) But what do you mean by "pure trance" version? Is there any other version? Besides that "marble" thingy spawned on ebay couple of years ago.. -- anttil.
I have a version that surfaced in 1999 on a few vinyls that were allegedly pirated from the pressing plant that the KLF used to employ. It has a version of "Love Trance" on side A and "The Monster Attack" mix of "What Time is Love" on the B. Whether or not this version of Love Trance is legit has been heavily debated over the years and opinion seems to be split, some think it's the real deal and some think it's the work of an imitator. I suppose it's always possible that this Love Trance 12" was intended to be the remix companion to an unreleased Pure Trance 3 version as it has a remix of WTIL on the flip. The "Monster Attack" version of WTIL is of the finest audio quality I've heard. I've ripped these tracks to CD-R some years ago and would be happy to share them with you if you like. Dan On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 4:17 PM, Antti Lavio <antti.lavio@possu.org> wrote:
On 25.8.2011 22:25, Dan T. Hutchins wrote:
PVC is very mysterious about this stuff and he's only mentioned it once. Not sure, but I think he's trying to dole out one rarity a year to fund the M25 spin.
Well...if this is true and will be released, I don't think PVC has to worry about next years M25 funding.. ;)
But what do you mean by "pure trance" version? Is there any other version? Besides that "marble" thingy spawned on ebay couple of years ago..
-- anttil.
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@ Dan... Where did you get your love trance? As the guy i dealt with had only 5 copies.... Did it come in a mint plain white sleeve & the vinyl mint??? Sent from KITT On 25 Aug 2011, at 21:56, Dan Hutchins <danthutchins@gmail.com> wrote:
I have a version that surfaced in 1999 on a few vinyls that were allegedly pirated from the pressing plant that the KLF used to employ. It has a version of "Love Trance" on side A and "The Monster Attack" mix of "What Time is Love" on the B. Whether or not this version of Love Trance is legit has been heavily debated over the years and opinion seems to be split, some think it's the real deal and some think it's the work of an imitator. I suppose it's always possible that this Love Trance 12" was intended to be the remix companion to an unreleased Pure Trance 3 version as it has a remix of WTIL on the flip. The "Monster Attack" version of WTIL is of the finest audio quality I've heard. I've ripped these tracks to CD-R some years ago and would be happy to share them with you if you like. Dan
On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 4:17 PM, Antti Lavio <antti.lavio@possu.org> wrote:
On 25.8.2011 22:25, Dan T. Hutchins wrote:
PVC is very mysterious about this stuff and he's only mentioned it once. Not sure, but I think he's trying to dole out one rarity a year to fund the M25 spin.
Well...if this is true and will be released, I don't think PVC has to worry about next years M25 funding.. ;)
But what do you mean by "pure trance" version? Is there any other version? Besides that "marble" thingy spawned on ebay couple of years ago..
-- anttil.
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I would certainly like that. On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 5:13 PM, Theritesofmu <theritesofmu@aol.com> wrote:
@ Dan... Where did you get your love trance? As the guy i dealt with had only 5 copies.... Did it come in a mint plain white sleeve & the vinyl mint???
Sent from KITT
On 25 Aug 2011, at 21:56, Dan Hutchins <danthutchins@gmail.com> wrote:
I have a version that surfaced in 1999 on a few vinyls that were allegedly pirated from the pressing plant that the KLF used to employ. It has a version of "Love Trance" on side A and "The Monster Attack" mix of "What Time is Love" on the B. Whether or not this version of Love Trance is legit has been heavily debated over the years and opinion seems to be split, some think it's the real deal and some think it's the work of an imitator. I suppose it's always possible that this Love Trance 12" was intended to be the remix companion to an unreleased Pure Trance 3 version as it has a remix of WTIL on the flip. The "Monster Attack" version of WTIL is of the finest audio quality I've heard. I've ripped these tracks to CD-R some years ago and would be happy to share them with you if you like. Dan
On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 4:17 PM, Antti Lavio < <antti.lavio@possu.org> antti.lavio@possu.org> wrote:
On 25.8.2011 22:25, Dan T. Hutchins wrote:
PVC is very mysterious about this stuff and he's only mentioned it once. Not sure, but I think he's trying to dole out one rarity a year to fund the M25 spin.
Well...if this is true and will be released, I don't think PVC has to worry about next years M25 funding.. ;)
But what do you mean by "pure trance" version? Is there any other version? Besides that "marble" thingy spawned on ebay couple of years ago..
-- anttil.
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I have to feed dogs and do a few things at the moment, but I will answer all questions and share the tracks in an hour or two. BTW, I've been a member of this list for 15 years and have never said a bad word or ever put anyone down. Sometimes we disagree but I feel this is a place for polite discussion. Every few years it seems a flame war erupts and haters just crawl out of the woodwork. If people disagree with my views that's fine and encouraged, but I really find anger and personal attacks off-putting, especially from people who don't know me. It's made me consider leaving the list more than once. I wish to thank everyone on the list today who returned this conversation to the positive one it should be. I woke-up this morning thinking "there's a lot of angry disagreeable dicks in the world" but feel much better after reading all the genuinely interested comments from good-hearted fans. I'll upload the tracks lossless and talk about my Love Trance 12" after I do a few chores! Dan Hutchins Librarian/Lecturer Oakland University Dan On Aug 25, 2011, at 5:13 PM, Theritesofmu <theritesofmu@aol.com> wrote:
@ Dan... Where did you get your love trance? As the guy i dealt with had only 5 copies.... Did it come in a mint plain white sleeve & the vinyl mint???
Sent from KITT
On 25 Aug 2011, at 21:56, Dan Hutchins <danthutchins@gmail.com> wrote:
I have a version that surfaced in 1999 on a few vinyls that were allegedly pirated from the pressing plant that the KLF used to employ. It has a version of "Love Trance" on side A and "The Monster Attack" mix of "What Time is Love" on the B. Whether or not this version of Love Trance is legit has been heavily debated over the years and opinion seems to be split, some think it's the real deal and some think it's the work of an imitator. I suppose it's always possible that this Love Trance 12" was intended to be the remix companion to an unreleased Pure Trance 3 version as it has a remix of WTIL on the flip. The "Monster Attack" version of WTIL is of the finest audio quality I've heard. I've ripped these tracks to CD-R some years ago and would be happy to share them with you if you like. Dan
On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 4:17 PM, Antti Lavio <antti.lavio@possu.org> wrote:
On 25.8.2011 22:25, Dan T. Hutchins wrote:
PVC is very mysterious about this stuff and he's only mentioned it once. Not sure, but I think he's trying to dole out one rarity a year to fund the M25 spin.
Well...if this is true and will be released, I don't think PVC has to worry about next years M25 funding.. ;)
But what do you mean by "pure trance" version? Is there any other version? Besides that "marble" thingy spawned on ebay couple of years ago..
-- anttil.
_______________________________________________ KLF mailing list KLF@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/klf Report list abuse to list-abuse at studio-nibble.com
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I purchased 2 copies of "love trance" from a guy that actually worked at the pressing plant... The copies were unplayed black vinyl & i was told that they were placed into a holdall years ago when a few records were being test pressed for any errors... Will get them out & take a pic of the run out groove over the weekend... I would like to add that i parted with £300 for the 2 & he kept 1... Sent from KITT On 25 Aug 2011, at 21:17, Antti Lavio <antti.lavio@possu.org> wrote:
On 25.8.2011 22:25, Dan T. Hutchins wrote:
PVC is very mysterious about this stuff and he's only mentioned it once. Not sure, but I think he's trying to dole out one rarity a year to fund the M25 spin.
Well...if this is true and will be released, I don't think PVC has to worry about next years M25 funding.. ;)
But what do you mean by "pure trance" version? Is there any other version? Besides that "marble" thingy spawned on ebay couple of years ago..
-- anttil.
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Now that's dedication........... On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 5:10 PM, Theritesofmu <theritesofmu@aol.com> wrote:
I purchased 2 copies of "love trance" from a guy that actually worked at the pressing plant... The copies were unplayed black vinyl & i was told that they were placed into a holdall years ago when a few records were being test pressed for any errors... Will get them out & take a pic of the run out groove over the weekend...
I would like to add that i parted with £300 for the 2 & he kept 1...
Sent from KITT
On 25 Aug 2011, at 21:17, Antti Lavio <antti.lavio@possu.org> wrote:
On 25.8.2011 22:25, Dan T. Hutchins wrote:
PVC is very mysterious about this stuff and he's only mentioned it once. Not sure, but I think he's trying to dole out one rarity a year to fund the M25 spin.
Well...if this is true and will be released, I don't think PVC has to worry about next years M25 funding.. ;)
But what do you mean by "pure trance" version? Is there any other
version? Besides that "marble" thingy spawned on ebay couple of years ago..
-- anttil.
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How about 'Turn up the Strobe' or 'E-Train' now wouldn't that be nice! ________________________________ From: Antti Lavio <antti.lavio@possu.org> To: All bound for Mu-Mu Land. <klf@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thu, 25 August, 2011 21:17:37 Subject: Re: [KLF] Are the FLK too slim to be the KLF? On 25.8.2011 22:25, Dan T. Hutchins wrote:
PVC is very mysterious about this stuff and he's only mentioned it once. Not sure, but I think he's trying to dole out one rarity a year to fund the M25 spin.
Well...if this is true and will be released, I don't think PVC has to worry about next years M25 funding.. ;) But what do you mean by "pure trance" version? Is there any other version? Besides that "marble" thingy spawned on ebay couple of years ago.. -- anttil. _______________________________________________ KLF mailing list KLF@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/klf Report list abuse to list-abuse at studio-nibble.com
The KLF were just full of contradictions, just to add to the confusion, I just want to re-post a link I put up a while back, it was an interview with Alex Paterson recording with Dave Gilmour but in the 2nd last paragraph he mentions Jimmy wanting to return to The Orb and re-record their first album. http://news.scotsman.com/music/When-The-Orb-were-hailed.6551103.jp?articlepa... http://news.scotsman.com/music/When-The-Orb-were-hailed.6551103.jp?articlepa... BTW what a great thread, but where's PVC? ________________________________ From: Chris <mute@tpg.com.au> To: All bound for Mu-Mu Land. <klf@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thu, 25 August, 2011 3:15:56 Subject: Re: [KLF] Are the FLK too slim to be the KLF? "Yeah, but that was 20 years ago. They made their statement and it's stood the test of time. Would love a catalog reissue." This is a huge internal contradiction.
If they truly want to move forward with other endeavors unimpeaded by KLF fans and lingering questions they should just agree to one last Q&A, no
They're already unimpeded. They have 20 years of work that no-one's stopped them from putting out.
holds barred, state they deleted their catalog for a reason and interested parties should track down the catalog on their themselves BUT release all of these things people pester them about for free online as FLAC files for
Again, this is contradictory. And no-one's pestering them about this stuff - they're not on this list full of gigantic spods, they're dealing with galleries and arts funding bodies who barely know the records they actually had hits with, let alone about records they never actually made or demos that at best exist on a third-generation cassette.
23 days only: The Black Room (either unfinished or mixed by Stent--sure he would do it for free),
You've heard it unfinished. It's been around in that form - ie some shitty tapes that sound like a band jamming in a garage, because that's what they are - for 20 years and still is, online. How would it be different to upload it to yet another site or server? And why in flying fuck would Mark Stent take, say, two weeks off of mixing enormous major-label pop records for thousands and thousands of pounds - let alone six months to "finish" it - for free? Would you take six months off your job to go and do the same thing for free, at the whim of three to five angry nerds on the internet? Who are angry about something from TWO DECADES AGO?
Turn Up The Strobe, Love Trance, Sheriff of Mu Mu County, etc. If nothing else they could give them to PVC and he'll get the tracks to the true believers and use the proceeds to fund his spin, buy cheap beer for drunks, whatever. Bottomline is, if they want to put the past behind them they should just clear the decks. Nature abhores a vacuum and they left a big one the way they went out.
They can't release songs that DON'T ACTUALLY EXIST. These records didn't come out because their authors WEREN'T HAPPY WITH and DIDN'T FINISH THEM. They're not being hidden from you in some cruel conspiracy - bands abandon songs or versions of recordings or even entire albums that aren't working out *all the time*. It's part of the writing process. They did clear the decks: they deleted all of the great, finished records that they had control over, that weren't already out of print (hint: the majority of their catalogue was already out of print at the time. This is what happens with singles and any record printed in limited capacities.) "Not anger, more mystification. They want to have it both ways. They went out with this big mysterious, well, I don't know what to call it; self-destructive incomplete sentence but they somehow expect their fanbase to not question it, move-on and lap-up whatever unrelated projects they decide to put out." No. They specifically DON'T expect "their fanbase" to lap up whatever unrelated projects they put out. Jimmy's not selling editions of 13 prints in single galleries in the south of England because he wants 1,000,000 people who bought Justified & Ancient in 1991 to book flights there and buy one. Bill's not making soup for a family of five in the Hebrides because he.... jesus, is there any point in even typing this? Your attitude is just completely delusional, and I don't know if basic maths is going to be accepted. They don't give a shit, at all, about whether KLF fans engage with their new works. I'm sure they don't mind if people who liked that work also like this work, but none of it is *directed* at KLF fans or marketed to them in any way. (FTR: I've liked some of Jimmy's work, thought lots of it is pissweak, and am not in the market for posters of the Queen in a gasmask; I buy Bill's books because he's a really great writer, but never finished The Wild Highway, through no fault of Drummond's.) "There's nothing wrong with an artist wanting to move on and try new things, but people crave closure and an artist really needs to provide it if they want their new material be be accepted on its own terms. At least when Curtis, Lennon, Cobain et al died there was closure and greedy relatives to mine the archives and give the fans the remainder of their material." This is just gross, really. Your sense of entitlement is weird and creepy, and the best example of why Jimmy would be put off ever having opened up the archives. The closure is THEY PUT OUT SOME RECORDS ONCE. Then they stopped putting out records. If you bought those records and liked them, or heard them on the radio and liked them, THEY DON'T OWE YOU ANYTHING ELSE. This is like me following you around, wheedling that you ought to rewrite your third geography essay from second term 1989, over and over, because you said you'd forgotten to mention Bolivian agriculture when you handed it in, so now I deserve to get to read that, because you thought about it once. And you should still have your rough notes, and should give me those too, so I can put them on the internet for everyone else to read. (Or that you should go back to doing the company accounts in a ruled ledger, so that I can put a pile of ledgers in my cupboard and not look at them, but know they're there, instead of you managing an office of twenty people and being able to afford to put your eldest through uni. Whatever. Feel free to offer biographical details for both periods so we can tailor this analogy - you really do owe it to the list. We need closure.) _______________________________________________ KLF mailing list KLF@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/klf Report list abuse to list-abuse at studio-nibble.com
Quote: As the Junior Insurgent Transmitter Ensemble will be heading down to north Devon for various Bank Holiday Weekend festivities.... /Quote So assume they'll pick up the few hundred messages when they get back..! From: klf-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:klf-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lee Sent: 25 August 2011 14:03 To: All bound for Mu-Mu Land. Subject: Re: [KLF] Are the FLK too slim to be the KLF? On 25 August 2011 13:59, Tim Tim <gunsofmu@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: BTW what a great thread, but where's PVC? It's Tim's birthday this week, maybe he's recovering.
If there was a best of or "Justified" box set I'd want DJ Food on packaging and John as copywriter. Track listing anyone?
Track 1: Madrugada Eterna (White Room Promo FULL VERSION) I would honestly give up one of my nuts for that track. From: klf-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:klf-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lee Sent: 25 August 2011 14:09 To: All bound for Mu-Mu Land. Subject: Re: [KLF] Are the FLK too slim to be the KLF? If there was a best of or "Justified" box set I'd want DJ Food on packaging and John as copywriter. Track listing anyone?
Would love to hear whatever was finished from the Black Room, even if it's just the two tracks that Stent says were finished. According to him one was a slow, menacing, heavy-metal-like thrash. Stent said they were brilliant tracks and would have shown a lot of other bands up in 92/93. On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 9:13 AM, Ross Jarvis <jarvmeister@gmail.com> wrote:
Track 1: Madrugada Eterna (White Room Promo FULL VERSION) ****
** **
I would honestly give up one of my nuts for that track.****
** **
*From:* klf-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto: klf-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] *On Behalf Of *Andy Lee *Sent:* 25 August 2011 14:09 *To:* All bound for Mu-Mu Land. *Subject:* Re: [KLF] Are the FLK too slim to be the KLF?****
** **
If there was a best of or "Justified" box set I'd want DJ Food on packaging and John as copywriter.****
** **
Track listing anyone?****
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(Blushes) Wasn't Orbsessions 2 in 2006 originally meant to be the original Orb debut/Space? Also, there was a podcast of the Orb from 2005-ish which featured Mommie Don't and Pluto Calling as well as Madrugada Eterna and bits of "Ultraworld" which hinted at bits of the original recording being included. It all felt like it might just appear, five years ago. And talking of tracklists, a very old Orb discography site used to have a planned tracklist for the Orb's 1989 version of "Space" on it - but I can't find the link now. It was (obviously) a mixture of Jimmy's solo "Space" and "Ultraworld". Anyone have a link? John PS - Re: the digest issue. I can se Andy's e-mail copied under mine as I said this back to the mailing list, but no other text. Can I just confirm that that is all other people see under my e-mail, too? This is a fun and lively thread, and I'd hate people to be put off because of cutting and pasting errors. On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 2:08 PM, Andy Lee <andrewdavidlee@gmail.com> wrote:
If there was a best of or "Justified" box set I'd want DJ Food on packaging and John as copywriter.
Track listing anyone?
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01 Madrugada Eterna (Full White Room Promo Mix) - good idea, Ross! And for me: 02 Last Train To Trancentral/E Train to Trancentral (KLF8T mix) 03 The Sheriff of Mu Mu County (Full Demo) ... Anyone else?
Wow, hearing what the first Orb LP should have been with the original members would be great! Really excited about the prospect of this! Dan On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 8:59 AM, Tim Tim <gunsofmu@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
The KLF were just full of contradictions, just to add to the confusion, I just want to re-post a link I put up a while back, it was an interview with Alex Paterson recording with Dave Gilmour but in the 2nd last paragraph he mentions Jimmy wanting to return to The Orb and re-record their first album.
http://news.scotsman.com/music/When-The-Orb-were-hailed.6551103.jp?articlepa...
http://news.scotsman.com/music/When-The-Orb-were-hailed.6551103.jp?articlepa...
BTW what a great thread, but where's PVC?
------------------------------ *From:* Chris <mute@tpg.com.au> *To:* All bound for Mu-Mu Land. <klf@mailman.xmission.com> *Sent:* Thu, 25 August, 2011 3:15:56 *Subject:* Re: [KLF] Are the FLK too slim to be the KLF?
"Yeah, but that was 20 years ago. They made their statement and it's stood the test of time. Would love a catalog reissue."
This is a huge internal contradiction.
If they truly want to move forward with other endeavors unimpeaded by KLF fans and lingering questions they should just agree to one last Q&A, no
They're already unimpeded. They have 20 years of work that no-one's stopped them from putting out.
holds barred, state they deleted their catalog for a reason and interested parties should track down the catalog on their themselves BUT release all of these things people pester them about for free online as FLAC files for
Again, this is contradictory. And no-one's pestering them about this stuff - they're not on this list full of gigantic spods, they're dealing with galleries and arts funding bodies who barely know the records they actually had hits with, let alone about records they never actually made or demos that at best exist on a third-generation cassette.
23 days only: The Black Room (either unfinished or mixed by Stent--sure he would do it for free),
You've heard it unfinished. It's been around in that form - ie some shitty tapes that sound like a band jamming in a garage, because that's what they are - for 20 years and still is, online. How would it be different to upload it to yet another site or server?
And why in flying fuck would Mark Stent take, say, two weeks off of mixing enormous major-label pop records for thousands and thousands of pounds - let alone six months to "finish" it - for free? Would you take six months off your job to go and do the same thing for free, at the whim of three to five angry nerds on the internet? Who are angry about something from TWO DECADES AGO?
Turn Up The Strobe, Love Trance, Sheriff of Mu Mu County, etc. If nothing else they could give them to PVC and he'll get the tracks to the true believers and use the proceeds to fund his spin, buy cheap beer for drunks, whatever. Bottomline is, if they want to put the past behind them they should just clear the decks. Nature abhores a vacuum and they left a big one the way they went out.
They can't release songs that DON'T ACTUALLY EXIST. These records didn't come out because their authors WEREN'T HAPPY WITH and DIDN'T FINISH THEM. They're not being hidden from you in some cruel conspiracy - bands abandon songs or versions of recordings or even entire albums that aren't working out *all the time*. It's part of the writing process.
They did clear the decks: they deleted all of the great, finished records that they had control over, that weren't already out of print (hint: the majority of their catalogue was already out of print at the time. This is what happens with singles and any record printed in limited capacities.)
"Not anger, more mystification. They want to have it both ways. They went out with this big mysterious, well, I don't know what to call it; self-destructive incomplete sentence but they somehow expect their fanbase to not question it, move-on and lap-up whatever unrelated projects they decide to put out."
No. They specifically DON'T expect "their fanbase" to lap up whatever unrelated projects they put out. Jimmy's not selling editions of 13 prints in single galleries in the south of England because he wants 1,000,000 people who bought Justified & Ancient in 1991 to book flights there and buy one. Bill's not making soup for a family of five in the Hebrides because he.... jesus, is there any point in even typing this? Your attitude is just completely delusional, and I don't know if basic maths is going to be accepted.
They don't give a shit, at all, about whether KLF fans engage with their new works. I'm sure they don't mind if people who liked that work also like this work, but none of it is *directed* at KLF fans or marketed to them in any way. (FTR: I've liked some of Jimmy's work, thought lots of it is pissweak, and am not in the market for posters of the Queen in a gasmask; I buy Bill's books because he's a really great writer, but never finished The Wild Highway, through no fault of Drummond's.)
"There's nothing wrong with an artist wanting to move on and try new things, but people crave closure and an artist really needs to provide it if they want their new material be be accepted on its own terms. At least when Curtis, Lennon, Cobain et al died there was closure and greedy relatives to mine the archives and give the fans the remainder of their material."
This is just gross, really. Your sense of entitlement is weird and creepy, and the best example of why Jimmy would be put off ever having opened up the archives.
The closure is THEY PUT OUT SOME RECORDS ONCE. Then they stopped putting out records. If you bought those records and liked them, or heard them on the radio and liked them, THEY DON'T OWE YOU ANYTHING ELSE.
This is like me following you around, wheedling that you ought to rewrite your third geography essay from second term 1989, over and over, because you said you'd forgotten to mention Bolivian agriculture when you handed it in, so now I deserve to get to read that, because you thought about it once. And you should still have your rough notes, and should give me those too, so I can put them on the internet for everyone else to read.
(Or that you should go back to doing the company accounts in a ruled ledger, so that I can put a pile of ledgers in my cupboard and not look at them, but know they're there, instead of you managing an office of twenty people and being able to afford to put your eldest through uni. Whatever. Feel free to offer biographical details for both periods so we can tailor this analogy - you really do owe it to the list. We need closure.)
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I'm 100% it's not B&J. The tracks are OK but there are no JAMMsy fingerprints. IF you go to Jimmy's Vimeo page his current sketchy sound is very familiar. They are Leeds based, Norman records and their publicists have LS postcodes. This is not familiar JAMMS territory. They must have some cash, PCS Agency ( http://pcdagency.com/our-work.php ) don't look cheap. Now, who have I sent free DVDs to in Leeds? Hmm... Andy On 24 August 2011 09:41, Morphy <themorphy@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
The actual music The FLK are creating really lacks the sheer inventiveness of B&J in my opinion. It's unimaginative and the production is mediocre. One thing B&J always did well (apart from arguably the early JAMS stuff) was turn out a well produced product. I don't see why they would drop all of their music business contacts and now be making boring copy & paste music that sounds like it was made in Reason. The use of samples and editing by Cauty on "Space" outstrips this FLK stuff by a few lightyears - and that was 20 years ago. I just think if this was actually B&J they would have pulled out all the stops, and come out with something, well.. better!
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participants (18)
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Andy Lee -
Antti Lavio -
Chris -
Chris Renwick -
Chromatest J. Pantsmaker -
Dan Hutchins -
Dan T. Hutchins
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John Milne -
Martijn van Rheenen -
Micah Stupak -
Michiel [moonstorm.nl] -
Morphy -
Paul Allgood -
RiCh! -
Ross Jarvis -
Theritesofmu -
Tim Tim -
Ulrik Brandt