Wow! I can see why you would take offense to the "tone" of his message. However, there is some good information there too. I should have edited the content. You are right about that recorder. The information that the Pioneer rep provided to his office was totally wrong. It's nice to know if you do decide to use the A03 burner you can use the cheaper media. The key is making sure that they are recognized and play well on the end users player. Unfortunately most of the players fail to recognize the general-purpose DVD-R and DVD-RW at this point. The main point is that you're actually better off leaving it as a VCD. More players play VCD than the general purpose DVD-Rs. Secondly, you won't get better quality by converting it DVD unless you start over with the original videos. Don
-----Original Message----- From: Chris Bennett [mailto:christopher_m_bennett@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 2:48 PM To: klf@mailman.xmission.com Subject: RE: RE: Becoming OT Re: [KLF] VCD
Attacked? no..but he should be..I am a certified Novell guy..and full time computer tech... I can come up with 10 million reasons why someone is completely stupid for wanting to install their own video card..but I can also say "It's not that @#$@# hard, and yes..it IS possible for other people besides your amazing self that are capable of understanding these not really complex things..
(there are more than just this guy who knows how to author DVD's..)
I would almost say your professional DVD authoring friend feels attacked by the fact that an amateur is trying to do what he is doing for a living?
4. If he doesn't realize this stuff, there are about 100 other things he does not know, so I bet he can't encode very well either.
2. If he is on a Pioneer burner (which is probable) he is using A03 burner (those are the ones that do the DVD-R and DVD-RW). A03 won't work with the sucky $5 general purpose DVD-Rs (as opposed to authoring DVD-Rs). A03 burned discs also have more compatibility issues than A02 discs (the burner I have).
Uh..check the stats bucko..the A03's can't do the DVD-R's for authoring..just the general purpose.. http://www.shop4tech.com/cgi-bin/shop/shop.cgi?html_requested=dvdrchart
Boy..it really makes me mad to see someone preaching and forgetting to read the book first.. A word to the "friend" ..Shut your yap..you are NOT the brightest bulb in the lamp.. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage http://sports.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ KLF mailing list KLF@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/klf
The only thing I do care about in making this (and ever did) was that MY dvd player IS compatible, and I can fit a LOT more material on a DVD than a VCD..more than double...Plus a GOOD menuing system would keep me from having to just keep hitting track advance to go to the next video..If I wanted to watch the last video on the VCD, I would have to do track advance at least a dozen times... As a bonus with doing it the DVD way, I can make the audio for it into AC3, and have it coming out stereo in both front and back speakers without having to use my tuner's cheap effects..(thereby removing that nasty echo effect) If it was a pioneer rep that told him the wrong info, then I guess the pioneer rep is the idiot, but he should have checked the facts before preaching the wrong info.. As for the point that I'm better off leaving it as VCD..all my videos are allready in VCD format, and I can just browse a menu and watch them on my DVD player anyways..I just wanted to consolidate all my material to 1 or 2 discs, and have a nifty menu with "fake" dolby audio.. --- Don Gagen <DGagen@EnsembleStudios.com> wrote:
Wow! I can see why you would take offense to the "tone" of his message. However, there is some good information there too. I should have edited the content.
You are right about that recorder. The information that the Pioneer rep provided to his office was totally wrong. It's nice to know if you do decide to use the A03 burner you can use the cheaper media. The key is making sure that they are recognized and play well on the end users player. Unfortunately most of the players fail to recognize the general-purpose DVD-R and DVD-RW at this point.
The main point is that you're actually better off leaving it as a VCD. More players play VCD than the general purpose DVD-Rs. Secondly, you won't get better quality by converting it DVD unless you start over with the original videos.
Don
-----Original Message----- From: Chris Bennett [mailto:christopher_m_bennett@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 2:48 PM To: klf@mailman.xmission.com Subject: RE: RE: Becoming OT Re: [KLF] VCD
Attacked? no..but he should be..I am a certified Novell guy..and full time computer tech... I can come up with 10 million reasons why someone is completely stupid for wanting to install their own video card..but I can also say "It's not that @#$@# hard, and yes..it IS possible for other people besides your amazing self that are capable of understanding these not really complex things..
(there are more than just this guy who knows how to author DVD's..)
I would almost say your professional DVD authoring friend feels attacked by the fact that an amateur is trying to do what he is doing for a living?
4. If he doesn't realize this stuff, there are about 100 other things he does not know, so I bet he can't encode very well either.
2. If he is on a Pioneer burner (which is probable) he is using A03 burner (those are the ones that do the DVD-R and DVD-RW). A03 won't work with the sucky $5 general purpose DVD-Rs (as opposed to authoring DVD-Rs). A03 burned discs also have more compatibility issues than A02 discs (the burner I have).
Uh..check the stats bucko..the A03's can't do the DVD-R's for authoring..just the general purpose..
http://www.shop4tech.com/cgi-bin/shop/shop.cgi?html_requested=dvdrchart
Boy..it really makes me mad to see someone preaching and forgetting to read the book first.. A word to the "friend" ..Shut your yap..you are NOT the brightest bulb in the lamp..
__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage http://sports.yahoo.com/
_______________________________________________ KLF mailing list KLF@mailman.xmission.com
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/klf
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you shouldn't have edited the content...censorship sucks..even if it is totally rotten garbage.. --- Don Gagen <DGagen@EnsembleStudios.com> wrote:
Wow! I can see why you would take offense to the "tone" of his message. However, there is some good information there too. I should have edited the content.
You are right about that recorder. The information that the Pioneer rep provided to his office was totally wrong. It's nice to know if you do decide to use the A03 burner you can use the cheaper media. The key is making sure that they are recognized and play well on the end users player. Unfortunately most of the players fail to recognize the general-purpose DVD-R and DVD-RW at this point.
The main point is that you're actually better off leaving it as a VCD. More players play VCD than the general purpose DVD-Rs. Secondly, you won't get better quality by converting it DVD unless you start over with the original videos.
Don
-----Original Message----- From: Chris Bennett [mailto:christopher_m_bennett@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 2:48 PM To: klf@mailman.xmission.com Subject: RE: RE: Becoming OT Re: [KLF] VCD
Attacked? no..but he should be..I am a certified Novell guy..and full time computer tech... I can come up with 10 million reasons why someone is completely stupid for wanting to install their own video card..but I can also say "It's not that @#$@# hard, and yes..it IS possible for other people besides your amazing self that are capable of understanding these not really complex things..
(there are more than just this guy who knows how to author DVD's..)
I would almost say your professional DVD authoring friend feels attacked by the fact that an amateur is trying to do what he is doing for a living?
4. If he doesn't realize this stuff, there are about 100 other things he does not know, so I bet he can't encode very well either.
2. If he is on a Pioneer burner (which is probable) he is using A03 burner (those are the ones that do the DVD-R and DVD-RW). A03 won't work with the sucky $5 general purpose DVD-Rs (as opposed to authoring DVD-Rs). A03 burned discs also have more compatibility issues than A02 discs (the burner I have).
Uh..check the stats bucko..the A03's can't do the DVD-R's for authoring..just the general purpose..
http://www.shop4tech.com/cgi-bin/shop/shop.cgi?html_requested=dvdrchart
Boy..it really makes me mad to see someone preaching and forgetting to read the book first.. A word to the "friend" ..Shut your yap..you are NOT the brightest bulb in the lamp..
__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage http://sports.yahoo.com/
_______________________________________________ KLF mailing list KLF@mailman.xmission.com
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/klf
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On Thu 21 Mar, Chris Bennett wrote:
you shouldn't have edited the content...censorship sucks..even if it is totally rotten garbage..
If you think that editing and censorship are the same thing, then you are very wrong. Stuart. -- Stuart Bruce - klf@atomiser.demon.co.uk or preferably stuart@atomiser.demon.co.uk The Utah Saints Mailing List http://groups.yahoo.com/group/utahsaints/
well..in this case..removing content to "protect" someone else, no matter who it hurts... Main Entry: censor Function: transitive verb Inflected Form(s): cen·sored; cen·sor·ing /'sen(t)-s&-ri[ng], 'sen(t)s-ri[ng]/ Date: 1882 : to examine in order to suppress or delete anything considered objectionable (which is what he was doing..to "protect" me from being offended by his arrogant friend..) yes..I do know what they mean..unfortunately too many people incorrectly use the word edit to mean cutting out things that people don't want to hear, which is more the definition for censorship.. If you think that editing and censorship are the same thing, then you are very wrong. Stuart. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards® http://movies.yahoo.com/
To refer to somebody else as arrogant whilst quoting dictionary definitions is an interesting twist. It's a little like calling something "pretentious, darling"... Firstly he didn't edit anything so quite what your rant is about I'm not sure. Secondly editing out bits of messages that were not intended for public eyes is not censorship. If you wanted to send a copy of an e-mail to somebody and take out (say) your credit card details, or something private, then you would be editing it. Not censoring it. If the guy removed his friend's e-mail address from the message (I can't remember if he did or not?) then again, that's editing, not censorship. *If* the original message had been edited in order to just post the relevant parts without anything irrelevant, then that is editing. It depends on why he removed the text (if he had bothered at all). In case you hadn't guessed I'm a TV editor who has taken objection to your implications that a) TV jobs require creativity but no skill or experience or talent and b) that anything edited because it isn't appropriate to the finished piece is censorship. When a TV piece is edited and you take out the presenter saying "oh fuck, I've messed up that line", is that censorship? No. GET A GRIP! Stuart. On Wed 27 Mar, Chris Bennett wrote:
well..in this case..removing content to "protect" someone else, no matter who it hurts... Main Entry: censor Function: transitive verb Inflected Form(s): censored; censoring /'sen(t)-s&-ri[ng], 'sen(t)s-ri[ng]/ Date: 1882 : to examine in order to suppress or delete anything considered objectionable (which is what he was doing..to "protect" me from being offended by his arrogant friend..)
yes..I do know what they mean..unfortunately too many people incorrectly use the word edit to mean cutting out things that people don't want to hear, which is more the definition for censorship..
-- Stuart Bruce - klf@atomiser.demon.co.uk or preferably stuart@atomiser.demon.co.uk The Utah Saints Mailing List http://groups.yahoo.com/group/utahsaints/
On Wed 27 Mar, Chris Bennett wrote:
well..in this case..removing content to "protect" someone else, no matter who it hurts... Main Entry: censor Function: transitive verb Inflected Form(s): censored; censoring /'sen(t)-s&-ri[ng], 'sen(t)s-ri[ng]/ Date: 1882 : to examine in order to suppress or delete anything considered objectionable (which is what he was doing..to "protect" me from being offended by his arrogant friend..)
yes..I do know what they mean..unfortunately too many people incorrectly use the word edit to mean cutting out things that people don't want to hear, which is more the definition for censorship..
so does that mean the "kylie said to jason" edit should be called the "kylie said to jason" censor? oh no! : sig : micah stupak international bright young kook laerm@soulfood.org : quote : everybody needs someone to live by
Secondly editing out bits of messages that were not intended for public eyes is not censorship. If you wanted to send a copy of an e-mail to somebody and take out (say) your credit card details, or something private, then you would be editing it. Not censoring it. If the guy removed his friend's e-mail address from the message (I can't remember if he did or not?) then again, that's editing, not censorship. He was thinking of removing parts of the message because HE thought it would be offensive (sounds like censorship to me) (NOT removing unnecessary parts of the message: editing) In case you hadn't guessed I'm a TV editor who has taken objection to your implications that a) TV jobs require creativity but no skill or experience or talent and b) that anything edited because it isn't appropriate to the finished piece is censorship. Stuart: you are one of the few people I have seen on many mailing lists with intelligent things to say, don't bend what I was saying about a certain few individuals and occupations just to take offense by it..There are many things that I CAN'T do, and won't say that I can..(like editing film and making it look continuous when there has been parts removed..no matter how I try, it just turns to shit..)It's when people over-inflate themselves, and they are doing something simple, but making it LOOK difficult that I wonder about them.. All jobs (barring floor mopper at a porn show) require talent, and skill, but when people forget that others CAN aquire those very skills, and begin inflating themselves to new levels, it's then that they start forgetting about the under-achievers.. Bill and Jimmy never went to conservatory to study music, and they still got the skills to make music that a larger part of the population wouldn't have the skill to duplicate....
__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards® http://movies.yahoo.com/
yes..I do know what they mean..unfortunately too many people incorrectly use the word edit to mean cutting out things that people don't want to hear, which is more the definition for censorship..
I believe the common understanding of censorship is cutting out things the *censor* doesn't want anyone to hear, not things the listener doesn't want to hear. I'm quite appreciative of editors who cut out unnecessary guff that I don't want to hear and get to the relevant points, football highlights of a dull match for instance, or news coverage of a parliamentary debate. I don't consider it censorship. -- "There are perhaps 5% of the population that simply *can't* think. There are another 5% who *can*, and *do*. The remaining 90% *can* think, but *don't*." - R. A. Heinlein
At least it got some actual messages going on the board rather than "look, jimmy's got a new project that will never actually happen" ;) --- Stuart Bruce <klf@atomiser.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On Thu 21 Mar, Chris Bennett wrote:
you shouldn't have edited the content...censorship
sucks..even if it
is totally rotten garbage..
If you think that editing and censorship are the same thing, then you are very wrong.
Stuart.
-- Stuart Bruce - klf@atomiser.demon.co.uk or preferably stuart@atomiser.demon.co.uk
The Utah Saints Mailing List http://groups.yahoo.com/group/utahsaints/
_______________________________________________ KLF mailing list KLF@mailman.xmission.com
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/klf __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards® http://movies.yahoo.com/
I was just commenting on the point that this technical 'in-the-know' person was assuming that the person trying to burn DVD's didn't know at all what he was talking about. He could have taken into account that this person did know a lot about burning DVD's. If I was to read someone a lesson about programming, I would not give him a hard time, or try to read him the lesson literally, until I knew what this person was up to and what he was capable of. If I would not be able to gather this information, I would at least keep myself reserved towards this person, respecting the possibility that he did know what he was doing, but just missed a small point. The way this guy was reacting, it was more like "I know a lot, nobody else does", while perhaps someone else could have. And that just sucks, and is typical for most people in the IT/AV/Music business. So that aggregates me. So I react. And I think I am right too here.
you shouldn't have edited the content...censorship sucks..even if it is totally rotten garbage.. --- Don Gagen <DGagen@EnsembleStudios.com> wrote:
Wow! I can see why you would take offense to the "tone" of his message. However, there is some good information there too. I should have edited the content.
You are right about that recorder. The information that the Pioneer rep provided to his office was totally wrong. It's nice to know if you do decide to use the A03 burner you can use the cheaper media. The key is making sure that they are recognized and play well on the end users player. Unfortunately most of the players fail to recognize the general-purpose DVD-R and DVD-RW at this point.
The main point is that you're actually better off leaving it as a VCD. More players play VCD than the general purpose DVD-Rs. Secondly, you won't get better quality by converting it DVD unless you start over with the original videos.
Don
-----Original Message----- From: Chris Bennett [mailto:christopher_m_bennett@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 2:48 PM To: klf@mailman.xmission.com Subject: RE: RE: Becoming OT Re: [KLF] VCD
Attacked? no..but he should be..I am a certified Novell guy..and full time computer tech... I can come up with 10 million reasons why someone is completely stupid for wanting to install their own video card..but I can also say "It's not that @#$@# hard, and yes..it IS possible for other people besides your amazing self that are capable of understanding these not really complex things..
(there are more than just this guy who knows how to author DVD's..)
I would almost say your professional DVD authoring friend feels attacked by the fact that an amateur is trying to do what he is doing for a living?
4. If he doesn't realize this stuff, there are about 100 other things he does not know, so I bet he can't encode very well either.
2. If he is on a Pioneer burner (which is probable) he is using A03 burner (those are the ones that do the DVD-R and DVD-RW). A03 won't work with the sucky $5 general purpose DVD-Rs (as opposed to authoring DVD-Rs). A03 burned discs also have more compatibility issues than A02 discs (the burner I have).
Uh..check the stats bucko..the A03's can't do the DVD-R's for authoring..just the general purpose..
http://www.shop4tech.com/cgi-bin/shop/shop.cgi?html_requested=dvdrchart
Boy..it really makes me mad to see someone preaching and forgetting to read the book first.. A word to the "friend" ..Shut your yap..you are NOT the brightest bulb in the lamp..
__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage http://sports.yahoo.com/
_______________________________________________ KLF mailing list KLF@mailman.xmission.com
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/klf
__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards® http://movies.yahoo.com/
_______________________________________________ KLF mailing list KLF@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/klf
I do know this..I have met MANY people in the IT/AV/Music industry that are the same way..especially in the IT industry..example...Database administrators..they make a crapload of money..because of ONE reason..the whole industry has everyone else in the world believing that it can only be done by a select few individuals who are just "that type" of person. Often times, and also the reason for my harsh response, (even though i'm sure it wasn't forwarded on to him) is that the ONLY way to get these people out of their God bubble, is to pop it, and slap them across the face that they are just another guy looking for the allmighty dollar just like everyone else in the world, and one day they just may be surprised when some dolt out of high school exposes their secrets, and their job security goes to shit. At least in my industry, people DO tend to look for the certifications, so my job security is there whether I am a self protective guy or not, but As far as i can tell, for that industry, you just need to be creative, and show examples of your work...this is where the "protecting my secrets by being a self promoting jerk" mentality comes in.. He could have taken into
account that this person did know a lot about burning DVD's. And that just sucks, and is typical for most people in the IT/AV/Music business. So that aggregates me. So I react. And I think I am right too here.
__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards® http://movies.yahoo.com/
But then, somebody who works professionally doing a particular job has the right to suggest that somebody else (a self-confessed amateur) has got some of his facts wrong. If somebody was trying to tell you how to do your job and what they were telling you was wrong then you'd reply in a similar way. And you're fairly wrong about the fact that "you just need to be creative" in TV. If you crewed a TV programme purely with people who were creative- without anybody who had the experience of producing for TV and without anybody who had solid experience of broadcast-acceptable use of the equipment- then what you'd have would be best described as a disaster. Stuart. On Wed 27 Mar, Chris Bennett wrote:
I do know this..I have met MANY people in the IT/AV/Music industry that are the same way..especially in the IT industry..example...Database administrators..they make a crapload of money..because of ONE reason..the whole industry has everyone else in the world believing that it can only be done by a select few individuals who are just "that type" of person. Often times, and also the reason for my harsh response, (even though i'm sure it wasn't forwarded on to him) is that the ONLY way to get these people out of their God bubble, is to pop it, and slap them across the face that they are just another guy looking for the allmighty dollar just like everyone else in the world, and one day they just may be surprised when some dolt out of high school exposes their secrets, and their job security goes to shit. At least in my industry, people DO tend to look for the certifications, so my job security is there whether I am a self protective guy or not, but As far as i can tell, for that industry, you just need to be creative, and show examples of your work...this is where the "protecting my secrets by being a self promoting jerk" mentality comes in..
-- Stuart Bruce - klf@atomiser.demon.co.uk or preferably stuart@atomiser.demon.co.uk The Utah Saints Mailing List http://groups.yahoo.com/group/utahsaints/
Except he had his facts wrong, and was telling me I was wrong.. ;) open mouth, insert foot.
But then, somebody who works professionally doing a particular job has the right to suggest that somebody else (a self-confessed amateur) has got some of his facts wrong.
__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards® http://movies.yahoo.com/
On Wed, Mar 27, 2002 at 09:41:40AM -0800, Chris Bennett wrote:
I do know this..I have met MANY people in the IT/AV/Music industry that are the same way..especially in the IT industry..example...Database administrators..they make a crapload of money..because of ONE reason..the whole industry has everyone else in the world believing that it can only be done by a select few individuals who are just "that type" of person. Often times, and also the reason for my harsh response, (even though i'm sure it wasn't forwarded on to him) is that the ONLY way to get these people out of their God bubble, is to pop it, and slap them across the face that they are just another guy looking for the allmighty dollar just like everyone else in the world, and one day they just may be surprised when some dolt out of high school exposes their secrets, and their job security goes to shit. At least in my industry, people DO tend to look for the certifications, so my job security is there whether I am a self protective guy or not, but As far as i can tell, for that industry, you just need to be creative, and show examples of your work...this is where the "protecting my secrets by being a self promoting jerk" mentality comes in..
Yeah, you're absolutely right. Oracle DBAs are hired for caustic personalities and snooty attitudes. Nothing to do with technical experiencei on a complex system. No sirree. But, er, what does creativity have to do with database admin? And how do you show examples of your work? Strip out an array of RAID disks from a database server at your previous employers and take them to an interview? Show them the CCTV footage of an all-night session rolling back a database and clearing all the queued jobs? This thread's making you look pretty stoopid to me. But please carry on, when I stop enjoying it I'll just stop reading it. -- "Alcohol kills more people than Heroin, crack, acid and Cannabis put together. And you'd think that all those drugs together would be lethal." - Dougal Macleod "Alcohol kills more people than Heroin, crack, acid and Cannabis put together. So you'd think that all those drugs together would be legal." - redi
participants (6)
-
Chris Bennett -
Don Gagen -
Jonathan Wakely -
laerm -
Martijn Melenhorst -
Stuart Bruce