http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221222486810 "Here we have a beta tape containing the master audio for KLF The White Room for cassette." I found this bit weird as it is Betamax video tape. I don't think anyone would send master audio tapes as a video..or..? anttil.
Back in the days I was told that Hi-Fi VHS had the same dynamic range as a CD and that video tapes was sometimes used as master tapes so I guess it could be true. In 1991 you might think that DAT would have taken over but for transfer to cassette maybe a video tape worked better? /Hans Antti Lavio skrev 2013-05-03 08:08:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221222486810
"Here we have a beta tape containing the master audio for KLF The White Room for cassette."
I found this bit weird as it is Betamax video tape. I don't think anyone would send master audio tapes as a video..or..?
anttil.
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I remember that There was a tape format called PCM that was used for digital mastering before DAT became popular. The mechanism was the same as VHS but the whole tape was used to store uncompressed digital audio, there was no picture, so you can't play them back on a VHS deck. See http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCM_adaptor for a bit more info. - Andy_R On 3 May 2013, at 07:47, Hans Hedman <ravekommissionen@gmail.com> wrote:
Back in the days I was told that Hi-Fi VHS had the same dynamic range as a CD and that video tapes was sometimes used as master tapes so I guess it could be true. In 1991 you might think that DAT would have taken over but for transfer to cassette maybe a video tape worked better?
/Hans
Antti Lavio skrev 2013-05-03 08:08:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221222486810
"Here we have a beta tape containing the master audio for KLF The White Room for cassette."
I found this bit weird as it is Betamax video tape. I don't think anyone would send master audio tapes as a video..or..?
anttil.
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I recall that it was generally good knowledge that Betamax was better quality than VHS, but VHS won the day and the format wars were pretty much over with by the late 80's so it is a surprise to see this on beta as late as '91' Tim. ________________________________ From: Andrew Robinson <andrew@bml.co.uk> To: "ravekommissionen@gmail.com" <ravekommissionen@gmail.com>; All bound for Mu-Mu Land. <klf@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Friday, 3 May 2013, 8:16 Subject: Re: [KLF] Interesting stuff on Ebay I remember that There was a tape format called PCM that was used for digital mastering before DAT became popular. The mechanism was the same as VHS but the whole tape was used to store uncompressed digital audio, there was no picture, so you can't play them back on a VHS deck. See http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCM_adaptor for a bit more info. - Andy_R On 3 May 2013, at 07:47, Hans Hedman <ravekommissionen@gmail.com> wrote:
Back in the days I was told that Hi-Fi VHS had the same dynamic range as a CD and that video tapes was sometimes used as master tapes so I guess it could be true. In 1991 you might think that DAT would have taken over but for transfer to cassette maybe a video tape worked better?
/Hans
Antti Lavio skrev 2013-05-03 08:08:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221222486810
"Here we have a beta tape containing the master audio for KLF The White Room for cassette."
I found this bit weird as it is Betamax video tape. I don't think anyone would send master audio tapes as a video..or..?
anttil.
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Betamax was still being used for broadcasting well into the 90's. In the consumer market, however, VHS won out - the story I've always understood (which could be complete rubbish!) is that porn rentals chose VHS over betamax, thus people bought VHS players to play porn! :-p As I say, probably complete and utter tosh and something that QI (UK TV programme) would rubbish in a few seconds! :-p On 3 May 2013 09:53, Tim Tim <gunsofmu@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
I recall that it was generally good knowledge that Betamax was better quality than VHS, but VHS won the day and the format wars were pretty much over with by the late 80's so it is a surprise to see this on beta as late as '91' Tim.
*From:* Andrew Robinson <andrew@bml.co.uk> *To:* "ravekommissionen@gmail.com" <ravekommissionen@gmail.com>; All bound for Mu-Mu Land. <klf@mailman.xmission.com> *Sent:* Friday, 3 May 2013, 8:16 *Subject:* Re: [KLF] Interesting stuff on Ebay
I remember that There was a tape format called PCM that was used for digital mastering before DAT became popular. The mechanism was the same as VHS but the whole tape was used to store uncompressed digital audio, there was no picture, so you can't play them back on a VHS deck. See http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCM_adaptor for a bit more info.
- Andy_R
On 3 May 2013, at 07:47, Hans Hedman <ravekommissionen@gmail.com> wrote:
Back in the days I was told that Hi-Fi VHS had the same dynamic range as a CD and that video tapes was sometimes used as master tapes so I guess it could be true. In 1991 you might think that DAT would have taken over but for transfer to cassette maybe a video tape worked better?
/Hans
Antti Lavio skrev 2013-05-03 08:08:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221222486810
"Here we have a beta tape containing the master audio for KLF The White Room for cassette."
I found this bit weird as it is Betamax video tape. I don't think anyone would send master audio tapes as a video..or..?
anttil.
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On 3.5.2013 11:59, Nick King wrote:
Betamax was still being used for broadcasting well into the 90's.
It's still weird to see it as a master tape. However, "Betamax also had a significant part to play in the music recording industry, when Sony introduced its PCM (Pulse Code Modulation) digital recording system as an encoding box/PCM adaptor that connected to a Betamax recorder. The Sony PCM-F1 adaptor was sold with a companion Betamax VCR SL-2000 as a portable digital audio recording system. Many recording engineers used this system in the 1980s and 1990s to make their first digital master recordings." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betamax) So it might be real, but still bit odd as KLF used lot of DATs. Maybe it was requirement from cassette manufacturer. Well, at least you can maybe count intended tracks for A/B-sides from those times :) -- anttil
My first master was on beta... On 3 May 2013 10:16, Antti Lavio <antti.lavio@possu.org> wrote:
On 3.5.2013 11:59, Nick King wrote:
Betamax was still being used for broadcasting well into the 90's.
It's still weird to see it as a master tape.
However, "Betamax also had a significant part to play in the music recording industry, when Sony introduced its PCM (Pulse Code Modulation) digital recording system as an encoding box/PCM adaptor that connected to a Betamax recorder. The Sony PCM-F1 adaptor was sold with a companion Betamax VCR SL-2000 as a portable digital audio recording system. Many recording engineers used this system in the 1980s and 1990s to make their first digital master recordings." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Betamax<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betamax> )
So it might be real, but still bit odd as KLF used lot of DATs. Maybe it was requirement from cassette manufacturer.
Well, at least you can maybe count intended tracks for A/B-sides from those times :)
-- anttil
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Home Beta was only one of a wide range of Beta formats - although it died, the professional range is still going strong today. There was the pro digital audio PCM formats that used the same size tape, Betacam, which also used the same tapes but recorded video at better quality (for less time), Betacam SP and Betacam SX, which I think used tapes about twice as big to boost quality to serious pro levels, Digital Betacam, Betacam SX S, and nowadays HDCAM which is used for HD broadcast work. - Andy_R On 3 May 2013 10:18, Orbstreperous Fritz <orb@ocara.org> wrote:
My first master was on beta...
On 3 May 2013 10:16, Antti Lavio <antti.lavio@possu.org> wrote:
On 3.5.2013 11:59, Nick King wrote:
Betamax was still being used for broadcasting well into the 90's.
It's still weird to see it as a master tape.
However, "Betamax also had a significant part to play in the music recording industry, when Sony introduced its PCM (Pulse Code Modulation) digital recording system as an encoding box/PCM adaptor that connected to a Betamax recorder. The Sony PCM-F1 adaptor was sold with a companion Betamax VCR SL-2000 as a portable digital audio recording system. Many recording engineers used this system in the 1980s and 1990s to make their first digital master recordings." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Betamax<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betamax> )
So it might be real, but still bit odd as KLF used lot of DATs. Maybe it was requirement from cassette manufacturer.
Well, at least you can maybe count intended tracks for A/B-sides from those times :)
-- anttil
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My understanding is that JVC, the patent owner on VHS, charged only a single penny per cassette to those who wished to manufacture VHS tapes and Sony, who owned Beta, charged significantly more. Thus, on the production end most companies simply chose not to manufacture Beta which is why VHS won even though Beta was the superior format. Dan On May 3, 2013, at 4:59 AM, Nick King <nickwking@ntlworld.com> wrote:
Betamax was still being used for broadcasting well into the 90's.
In the consumer market, however, VHS won out - the story I've always understood (which could be complete rubbish!) is that porn rentals chose VHS over betamax, thus people bought VHS players to play porn! :-p
As I say, probably complete and utter tosh and something that QI (UK TV programme) would rubbish in a few seconds! :-p
On 3 May 2013 09:53, Tim Tim <gunsofmu@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
I recall that it was generally good knowledge that Betamax was better quality than VHS, but VHS won the day and the format wars were pretty much over with by the late 80's so it is a surprise to see this on beta as late as '91' Tim.
From: Andrew Robinson <andrew@bml.co.uk> To: "ravekommissionen@gmail.com" <ravekommissionen@gmail.com>; All bound for Mu-Mu Land. <klf@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Friday, 3 May 2013, 8:16 Subject: Re: [KLF] Interesting stuff on Ebay
I remember that There was a tape format called PCM that was used for digital mastering before DAT became popular. The mechanism was the same as VHS but the whole tape was used to store uncompressed digital audio, there was no picture, so you can't play them back on a VHS deck. See http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCM_adaptor for a bit more info.
- Andy_R
On 3 May 2013, at 07:47, Hans Hedman <ravekommissionen@gmail.com> wrote:
Back in the days I was told that Hi-Fi VHS had the same dynamic range as a CD and that video tapes was sometimes used as master tapes so I guess it could be true. In 1991 you might think that DAT would have taken over but for transfer to cassette maybe a video tape worked better?
/Hans
Antti Lavio skrev 2013-05-03 08:08:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221222486810
"Here we have a beta tape containing the master audio for KLF The White Room for cassette."
I found this bit weird as it is Betamax video tape. I don't think anyone would send master audio tapes as a video..or..?
anttil.
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Sorry to interrupt, but I've noticed that the total track time listed on the Tape is 45:20. The UK CD release is only 43:54. So there's possibly some extra bits on here? Or it's just runs long from the silence at the end of each side? On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 3:42 AM, Dan Hutchins <danthutchins@gmail.com> wrote:
My understanding is that JVC, the patent owner on VHS, charged only a single penny per cassette to those who wished to manufacture VHS tapes and Sony, who owned Beta, charged significantly more. Thus, on the production end most companies simply chose not to manufacture Beta which is why VHS won even though Beta was the superior format.
Dan
On May 3, 2013, at 4:59 AM, Nick King <nickwking@ntlworld.com> wrote:
Betamax was still being used for broadcasting well into the 90's.
In the consumer market, however, VHS won out - the story I've always understood (which could be complete rubbish!) is that porn rentals chose VHS over betamax, thus people bought VHS players to play porn! :-p
As I say, probably complete and utter tosh and something that QI (UK TV programme) would rubbish in a few seconds! :-p
On 3 May 2013 09:53, Tim Tim <gunsofmu@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
I recall that it was generally good knowledge that Betamax was better quality than VHS, but VHS won the day and the format wars were pretty much over with by the late 80's so it is a surprise to see this on beta as late as '91' Tim.
*From:* Andrew Robinson <andrew@bml.co.uk> *To:* "ravekommissionen@gmail.com" <ravekommissionen@gmail.com>; All bound for Mu-Mu Land. <klf@mailman.xmission.com> *Sent:* Friday, 3 May 2013, 8:16 *Subject:* Re: [KLF] Interesting stuff on Ebay
I remember that There was a tape format called PCM that was used for digital mastering before DAT became popular. The mechanism was the same as VHS but the whole tape was used to store uncompressed digital audio, there was no picture, so you can't play them back on a VHS deck. See http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCM_adaptor for a bit more info.
- Andy_R
On 3 May 2013, at 07:47, Hans Hedman <ravekommissionen@gmail.com> wrote:
Back in the days I was told that Hi-Fi VHS had the same dynamic range as a CD and that video tapes was sometimes used as master tapes so I guess it could be true. In 1991 you might think that DAT would have taken over but for transfer to cassette maybe a video tape worked better?
/Hans
Antti Lavio skrev 2013-05-03 08:08:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221222486810
"Here we have a beta tape containing the master audio for KLF The White Room for cassette."
I found this bit weird as it is Betamax video tape. I don't think anyone would send master audio tapes as a video..or..?
anttil.
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-- Howk
You have to subtract 00:34 and 1:06. The first is probably due to the blank tape at the beginning and then there's the tape flip. /Hans Mark Howk skrev 2013-05-03 19:18:
Sorry to interrupt, but I've noticed that the total track time listed on the Tape is 45:20. The UK CD release is only 43:54. So there's possibly some extra bits on here? Or it's just runs long from the silence at the end of each side?
On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 3:42 AM, Dan Hutchins <danthutchins@gmail.com <mailto:danthutchins@gmail.com>> wrote:
My understanding is that JVC, the patent owner on VHS, charged only a single penny per cassette to those who wished to manufacture VHS tapes and Sony, who owned Beta, charged significantly more. Thus, on the production end most companies simply chose not to manufacture Beta which is why VHS won even though Beta was the superior format.
Dan
On May 3, 2013, at 4:59 AM, Nick King <nickwking@ntlworld.com <mailto:nickwking@ntlworld.com>> wrote:
Betamax was still being used for broadcasting well into the 90's.
In the consumer market, however, VHS won out - the story I've always understood (which could be complete rubbish!) is that porn rentals chose VHS over betamax, thus people bought VHS players to play porn! :-p
As I say, probably complete and utter tosh and something that QI (UK TV programme) would rubbish in a few seconds! :-p
On 3 May 2013 09:53, Tim Tim <gunsofmu@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:gunsofmu@yahoo.co.uk>> wrote:
I recall that it was generally good knowledge that Betamax was better quality than VHS, but VHS won the day and the format wars were pretty much over with by the late 80's so it is a surprise to see this on beta as late as '91' Tim.
*From:* Andrew Robinson <andrew@bml.co.uk <mailto:andrew@bml.co.uk>> *To:* "ravekommissionen@gmail.com <mailto:ravekommissionen@gmail.com>" <ravekommissionen@gmail.com <mailto:ravekommissionen@gmail.com>>; All bound for Mu-Mu Land. <klf@mailman.xmission.com <mailto:klf@mailman.xmission.com>> *Sent:* Friday, 3 May 2013, 8:16 *Subject:* Re: [KLF] Interesting stuff on Ebay
I remember that There was a tape format called PCM that was used for digital mastering before DAT became popular. The mechanism was the same as VHS but the whole tape was used to store uncompressed digital audio, there was no picture, so you can't play them back on a VHS deck. See http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCM_adaptor for a bit more info.
- Andy_R
On 3 May 2013, at 07:47, Hans Hedman <ravekommissionen@gmail.com <mailto:ravekommissionen@gmail.com>> wrote:
Back in the days I was told that Hi-Fi VHS had the same dynamic range as a CD and that video tapes was sometimes used as master tapes so I guess it could be true. In 1991 you might think that DAT would have taken over but for transfer to cassette maybe a video tape worked better?
/Hans
Antti Lavio skrev 2013-05-03 08:08:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221222486810
"Here we have a beta tape containing the master audio for KLF The White Room for cassette."
I found this bit weird as it is Betamax video tape. I don't think anyone would send master audio tapes as a video..or..?
anttil.
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-- Howk
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participants (8)
-
Andrew Robinson -
Antti Lavio -
Dan Hutchins -
Hans Hedman -
Mark Howk -
Nick King -
Orbstreperous Fritz -
Tim Tim