Its very enjoyable reading all these arguments , ahem , sorry I mean discussions, but you guys are getting in a bit of a rut now , your just make the same point in different ways. Please come up with something new, or start a new "discussion" ;) p.s. does anyone think they will ever change the others mind by a few posts on a mailing list? perhaps you could "discuss" that. H _________________________________________________________________ On the move? Get Hotmail on your mobile phone http://www.msn.co.uk/msnmobile