Because it took me a while to write, I'm going to get value-for-money out of this post I've just sent to the KLF list on Yahoo Groups, and post it here as well... **** --- In klf@y... </group/klf/post?protectID=200128047003196091033082>, Dave Bryant <dave_bryant23@y... </group/klf/post?protectID=114166018056159202218097175101249226068098100046209130>> wrote:

I've become aware of the fact in recent months that a few people have been joining this list purely to sell KLF produce to other members by e-mail, or post their sales on here. I may as well remind everyone now that I don't particularly like this (and will delete such posts asap as from now). This is for several reasons:

Well, to be honest I completely disagree. I think that for many (not all) KLF fans, the actual collecting of the obscure vinyl and crazy rare items is part of the fun, and I think you should allow people to have the option of trading KLF items if they want to. This being a KLF list and all. Just because you yourself are not a record collector and don't appreciate that part of things (or you just can't afford the items!), I don't see why that means you should stop everybody else from doing it. So let's consider your reasons...

1/ I can't guarantee the legitimacy of any poster, especially people who have suddenly emerged out of the blue.

This is a fair concern if you yourself are a buyer, but what you're saying is tantamount to stopping complete strangers from walking into a cheese shop because you think that there is a chance the cheese is mouldy, despite yourself claiming to be a fan of cheese. eBay, as an example, has levels of protection when it comes to unreliable sellers, items that aren't as advertised or legitimate, etc. Let people make up their own mind.

2/ Auction sites such as e-bay and magazines such as "Record Collector" (spit) are there for a reason. The KLF are obviously incredibly collectable, and

But what is the harm of posting a *link* to an eBay auction that you have just started? Not everybody has the time to do a search for "KLF" on eBay every three days.

if all our posts consisted of "I want to sell my copy of '1987' for £100" it would get to the stage where this would become nothing more than an auction site

Trust me, on the other (frankly bigger & more popular) KLF discussion list that I'm on, anyone is allowed to post auctions & trading information, without any moderation, and it does *not* overtake the amount of other KLF posts. I've never heard of any other list (and I'm on loads!) where trading items of the actual band in question is forbidden. And the reason why nobody else forbids it? Because forbidding it is ridiculous, perhaps?

rather than a site for people to find out information and pass on information (and yes, I'm well aware things have been a bit dead recently, but I will take steps to rectify this soon!).

Well your post about "no sales" certainly seems to have killed things off.

3/ Off-board spamming (and this is my particular bug-bear) is intrusive and irritates other subscribers, and ultimately causes them to leave the group.

This is a completely different issue to that of auctions & trading. If spam-collectors join this list using false names in order to gather e-mail addresses to later spam them (which does happen across Yahoo Groups), what has that got to do with auctions/trading posts? Nothing.

4/ As a footnote point on a level of personal bias (which I'm allowed for as long as I moderate here), I actually don't like the record collecting market.

You admit yourself this is personal bias. I happen *to* like the record collecting market. Maybe we should take a vote on it. But if trading of KLF items is forbidden here, what would be the point of staying with this list, when you can just send an e-mail to klf- request@mailman.xmission.com with the word "subscribe" in the body of the text, and you'll be subscribed to a more popular and active list?

What makes most KLF sites online great is the fact that they offer fans the chance to hear music and watch videos which are otherwise almost impossible to get hold of. Therefore, if you do have access to an obscure KLF item, I'd urge you to offer an MP3 link to others so they can likewise appreciate it. This is the way things should be.

The way things should be are as above, *but* if things are to be truly 'free', then people should be free to share, buy and sell those vinyl or CD items as well if they so choose.

The upper end of the record collecting market is largely dominated by business folk with their eye on vinyl as a commodity rather than music lovers - it's often completely beyond me why white labels attract more money than (for instance) the fully finished product with its printed label, sleeve and liner notes.

Right then- you're forbidding record trading because you don't understand or appreciate it. That, of course, is just biased prejudice, not reason.

If such elitist, anal behaviour floats some people's boat and they have the money to indulge their whims, then fine.

Well you seem to be disagreeing with yourself here. Obviously you *don't* think it's fine, otherwise you wouldn't be forbidding trading notices. Speaking from experience, people don't like moderators who make decisions based on personal opinion rather than group interest. Please reconsider. Not that I've even got any KLF items to trade at the moment, just trying to keep this list sane. Stuart. -- Stuart Bruce / Web Video / 0208 348 9566 ext. 2610 07729 164044 / stuart.bruce@fameacademy.endemoluk.com -- Stuart Bruce / Web Video / 0208 348 9566 ext. 2610 07729 164044 / stuart.bruce@fameacademy.endemoluk.com ______________________________________________________________________ Any views or opinions expressed in this e-mail are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of ENDEMOL UK plc unless specifically stated. This email and the information it contains are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify us immediately and delete the copy you have received from your system. You should not copy it for any purpose, re-transmit it, use it or disclose its contents to any other person. If you suspect the message may have been intercepted or amended please call the sender.