From Dave Bryant:
Well what is to stop you from adding fair comment after a post, commenting that you do not think a particular item is legitimate, or that a particular seller can be trust?
Because I don't actually know the facts behind either issue, and can't speak for items I haven't seen or people I haven't spoken to. What I can't physically see I can't comment on. I've thought about this one, and maybe the most sensible solution would be to carry a warning at the top of this group about illegitimate trades. The net effect of that is merely going to be that nobody will post trades here at all (possibly not even links to e-bay) as nobody particularly wants to flog something with a massive warning at the top of a site suggesting it may be a fraud. So far as I'm concerned this would be an upside, but you seem to disagree. The other downside of this is that most people access this group mainly via e-mail, and wouldn't see the warning anyway. Also, if I were to post a warning after every single poster's deal, do you not think this would actually cause _more_ offence, and more complaints in the long run? If no prior warning were given to me and I posted a message saying I wanted to sell an item, only for the moderator to immediately follow the message with a warning saying "This may be a fraud, be careful who you buy from", I'd be fairly pissed off at the suspicion being levelled at me. In short, this little argument we're having right now would run and run. Now that's something I'm not particularly keen on arranging...
I am concerned that people might get run over by cars when they cross the road, but I don't announce that I am going to ban roads or ban cars. If anybody were to ever ask me, I'd tell them where I thought was a sensible place to cross.
Which is why it's illegal for pedestrians to cross motorways, certain branches of trunk roads, etc. Sorry, I'm just taking your analogy to obvious levels, though I take your point. To be honest, I'm rather bored of this whole issue. I'm totally prepared to throw it all open to group consensus and maybe even stick a warning at the top of the site if everyone thinks that's a better solution, but if I do that I honestly never want to hear about this again. No more complaints, because I've heard both sides of the story here and it's grating on my nerves a bit.
Self-interest is where you have an egotism associated with the fact that you 'own' this list, and you're upset at the idea that there is a better, bigger list out there (whose owner imposes no rules and moderation and yet which still ticks over without any problems), and which other people prefer to use.
I've already said I don't really have a problem with this. You're correct, I probably do have a raging ego when it comes to certain things in my life, but running a Yahoo KLF group is (you'll be happy to hear) not something I'd place high as being one of my defining achievements, one of my crowning glories I'm desperate to protect. As for this other group, I might even join myself if it's that bloody good... but I think you'll find it's a commonly acknowledged fact that it's not really good net etiquette to complain on-board about one site, and then announce there's a far better one elsewhere and everyone should leave. It's a bit like storming into a a pub, screaming that the place is shit, the landlord is a fascist arsehole, and everyone should buy their drinks elsewhere. Nobody in the bar would dispute your right to democratic opinion, but on the other hand the landlord probably would arrange for you to be thrown out. Such stuff does tend to get flamed and/or deleted, and if you're doing it elsewhere you're probably causing offence. In fact, on one of Yahoo's group discussion sites about maintaining and moderating the groups, they specifically mention and attempt to discourage people from doing this, and in the past (in my naive days) when I tried to promote similar sites on other people's I found my attempts were either abused or deleted (or at the very least greeted with the comment "Oh thanks very bloody much, I'm working hard trying to build a successful site here and you barge on saying you've got another one, blah blah blah..."). I'll try to find the link to this FAQ when I've got a spare bit of time on my hands. For the record, I couldn't give a shit about this and have allowed people to link to Orb sites, KLF associated groups, etc, loads in the past (somebody back me up on this please!), but I've not found other people so accommodating unless there's been some mutual arrangement made. My point was really that I'm not the jackbooted figure you're trying to paint me as. For my part, I accept this group has been a bit poor on its feet for the last few months, largely due to having a lot of other things on my hands and not trying to keep the posts rolling, promoting it, updating the front end, etc. Therefore, if people want to sod off, by all means... it's not as if I make any money or gain anything from being here, least of all arguments like the ones in private and on-board in the last few weeks. And that is hardly an altruistic attitude
for the greater good, is it?!
No it isn't ,Stuart, but your comments don't apply to me, and most people start online groups or mailing lists for bizarre reasons. And the reasons aren't always altruistic.
Sorry, but hypocrisy is one of the many things that irritate me.
Jesus Christ, besides perceived hypocrisy, what are the others?! And do you get more or less irate about them? Please forewarn me, I may need to take a week off work to deal with them when they arise. As for the comment from Andrew "I think you should keep this board going", well, there are no plans for it to be shut down at all. If I felt sick of the periodic work involved in searching for KLF news, updating the front end, searching for links, etc (which is normally a pleasure rather than a chore) I'd simply do what I've done in the past and hand the group over to somebody else to moderate, and cease to have any involvement. Don't worry about that. Stuart might even get control if he's lucky (sniggers evilly). Cup of tea, anyone? Oh, and what's everyone's general consensus on this whole issue about online sales of fake KLF stuff? If everyone feels strongly enough about my stance, I'll back down, provided I *never* have to hear about it again. And that's the deal. Dave. -- Stuart Bruce / Web Video / 0208 348 9566 ext. 2610 07729 164044 / stuart.bruce@fameacademy.endemoluk.com ______________________________________________________________________ Any views or opinions expressed in this e-mail are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of ENDEMOL UK plc unless specifically stated. This email and the information it contains are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify us immediately and delete the copy you have received from your system. You should not copy it for any purpose, re-transmit it, use it or disclose its contents to any other person. If you suspect the message may have been intercepted or amended please call the sender.