what I meant is that no matter what you do and how you conduct yourself at some point you will be accussed of selling out. Example: a punk rock band like the Exploited never compromise their message, never have any hits, never sell any records and as soon as their fan base swells to more than 3 people they are accused of selling out. Credibility is an overated virtue and if you are going to be accussed of selling out anyway be accussed for selling millions of records and having number 1s rather than be accussed and live in a shithole somewhere with barely enough money to live on. Its all based on this belief that you can't have success and credibility at the same time. This is bollocks but if having credibility means being Mark E Smith, recording 30 odd albums and stll know ones heard of you (how the fuck did he manage that) Id rather be Bill, Jimmy, Richey Edwards, Liam Gallagher or Keith Flint and be a total sell out living in a mansion with two Jags as oppossed to being Wattie Buchanan, McCarthy, Crass or fucking Chapterhouse (the worst band in the fucking world) and a total sell out living off Pot Noodles and appearrances on The Terry & Gabby show. on Thursday 4th of September 2003 KLF Gyerek wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong, but according to Your logic, if somebody as The KLF/JAMS does anything and everything they want and don't give a damn about success (Doctorin' was a pure piss-take on almost everything), they have NO credibility, but when somebody else say they wanted succes from day one, they are "no sell out"? What's the point, then? And where's the logic in that? By the way, did You read "A Manic Street Preacher's Diary" in Melody Maker? That was always a good laugh. a Gyerek "Usually we lose but sometimes we win, so light up and let us begin" (Shivaree) _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963