Very interesting; thanks for sharing. Spellcasters are complex, aren't they? The most complex I got was the outline below. Fester was a little man who'd attached himself to a remnant of the Company in the North. Maybe some brothers from Juniper who didn't march out with Elmo. Maybe the last Tonque brother restarted the band. Maybe Raven's kids get a bug up their butt. Whatever, as is always the case, the Company grew and at some point headed south to followup and rejoin their predecessors... Fester - Human low-powered spell caster: Hermit Background, Magic Use bonus skill, Self-sufficient as bonus feat. Level 1 - Jack of All Trades 1 - Dabbler feat, Self-sufficient (background bonus feat), Talent (Aflict, JOAT bonus feat). Level 2 - Jack of All Trades 2 - Talent (Necromancy, JOAT bonus feat). Level 3 - Academian 1 - Skill Focus (Magic Use, Academian bonus feat), Tracking (3rd). Level 4 - Spirit Shaman 1 - Level 5 - Spirit Shaman 2 - Level 6 - Spirit Shaman 3 - Talent (Animal Talent, 6th). Level 7 - Spirit Shaman 4 - Talent (Figment, SpSh Talent bonus feat). Level 8 - Spirit Shaman 5 - Armored Mage (SpSh Magic bonus feat). Level 9 - Spirit Shaman 6 - Physician (9th). Level 10 - Spirit Shaman 7 - (magnitude - from Dabbler to First Magnitude). Level 11 - Spirit Shaman 8 - Talent (Healing, SpSh Talent bonus feat). Level 12 - Spirit Shaman 9 - Spiritwalker (SpSh bonus feat), Master Crafstman (12th). Level 13 - Spirit Shaman 10 - Embed Spell (SpSh Magic bonus feat). Level 14 - Artificer 1 - Level 15 - Artificer 2 - Defy Time (15th). Level 16 - Artificer 3 - Level 17 - Artificer 4 - Level 18 - Artificer 5 - Talent (Dispel, 18th). Level 19 - ??? Level 20 - ??? -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 11/14/17, David Ainsworth <Narsham@comcast.net> wrote: Subject: Re: [Glencook-fans] Anybody interested in the Black Company Campaign Setting RPG? To: "Glen Cook: Science Fiction/Fantasy Author" <glencook-fans@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Tuesday, November 14, 2017, 8:42 PM In case anyone else is interested, here's a few stat blocks from that campaign, including my spell notes (which get complicated): Apothis “Cult Leader”, Rostem Thief 2/Wizard 5 AP 3 HD 6+6d6+31, hp 64 Mdt 25, Init +2, Spd 30 ft, AC 15 (Leather +2, D +2), ff 13, touch 13 [add up to +4 expertise] BAB +3/Grapple +1 Atk Dagger +1 melee (19-20, 1d4-2) SQ (Beggar), Knave, Sneak Attack +1d6, Evasion, First Magnitude, 10% fort F/R/W: +5/+8/+4 S 7 D 14 Co 18 I 14 W 11 Ch 18 Bluff +20, Detect Magic +11, Disable Device +9, Disguise +12, Escape Artist +8, Ghost Sound +14, Hide +6, Intimidate +9, Knowledge (arcana) +9, Knowledge (religion) +7, Magic Use +23, Move Silently +6, Open Lock +9, Perform +10, Prestidigitation +12, Sense Motive +5, Tumble +7 Feats: Toughness, Expertise, Skill Focus (Magic Use), Talent, Talent, Spell Energy, Talent, (1st)Talent, Talent, Talent Spells Known (DC 16; Spell Energy 7): Beguile (+2), Dispel (+2 to roll), Figment (+2), Glamer(+2), Pattern(+2), Wards Aptitude = 14 Swift Action: DC 14 or less (drain 1d8+2) 1 action: DC 15-19 (drain 1d8+3) 2 actions: DC 20-24 (drain 1d8+4) 4 actions: DC 30-34 (drain 1d8+6) [Auto succeed at DC 34 or less] Beguile: Base DC 15.  (+4 to 10' ray, +1/10'), (+1/rnd duration), (+15 for 20' range, 10' radius effect).  Beguile ray: 20' range, 5 rnd duration, DC 24, 2 actions, drain 1d8+4. Dispel: Base DC 10 for 1d20+3, 10' range.  (+10/additional spell), (+2 for a +1 to the roll) (+1/10' range), (+10 for a 10' radius). Quick dispel: 10' range, 1d20+4 roll, DC 14, swift action, drain 1d8+3.  Target dispel: 30' range, 1d20+9 roll, DC 24, 2 actions, drain 1d8+4. Figment: Base DC 10.  (+1/10', +1/rnd duration; +5/sense, +2/extra image, +18 for a script). “Wall of Fire” DC 34: 30' range, 10 rnd duration, 30' long area, thermal sense added, drain 1d8+5.  Death God DC 29:10' range, 5 rnd duration, audible/olfactory/tactile senses. Glamer: Base DC 10.  Anonymizer (on self): DC 19 for 10 rounds with Disguise +16, adding plate mail and a sword.  Look-alike: DC 24 for 6 rounds on all in a 10' radius of caster, Will save. Frightener (on self): DC 34 for 4 rounds with +3 to intimidate. Pattern: Base DC 15.  10' cone for 1 rnd.  (+1/rnd duration, +1/10' range, +5 per 10' radius burst or +2/5' square or +6/extra 10' cone range).  Quick blast: DC 19, 4 rnd duration, drain 1d8+3.  Stunning burst: DC 34, 60' range, 4 rnd duration, 20' radius burst, drain 1d8+6. Spells prepped: (DC 90=1 week prep, auto-succeed) “Bloodlust of Death:” Beguile talent, range 60', duration 5 rounds, 20' radius burst effect, first round all targets attack nearest creature. DC 59, drain 1d8+11 Battle Warding: Ward talent, range 10' burst, stops 5 points from S/P/B, duration 15 rounds DC 89, drain 1d8+17 Wears Fine Leather Armor (Fortified), Uses Fine Dagger (Guard) Nightcrawler Physician: Stitch, Physician: Academician 9/Noble 3 S 10 D 12 Co 14 I 18 W 18 Ch 15 HD 6+3d8+8d6+24 Mdt 26 Init +5 BAB +6/+1 F/R/W: +7/+6/+13 AP=11 Background: Physician–Physician heal check (see pg 57), Conc/Heal/Prof (Herbalist)/Survival Skill points: 144+12/24+3 Skills: 4/d add +4 to Diplomacy or Sense Motive check, Improved Reserarch (+10 library work), 3/d add +4 to all Int checks for 10 rounds, +2 to Cha and research in Mastery languages, -4 in Fair, -8 in Poor Concentration 12r +2 con = +14 Decipher Script 15r +4 int +3 focus = +22 Diplomacy 10r + 2 cha +2 synergy +1 diplomat = +15 Heal 15r + 4 wis +5 focus +2 comp = +26 +2 kit = +28 Knowledge (arcana) 7r + 4 int +2 education = +13 Knowledge (geography) 12r +4 int +2 education = +18 Knowledge (history) 12r +4 int +2 education +2 synergy +2 comp = +24 Knowledge (nature) 12r +4 int +2 education = +18 Knowledge (religion) 7r +4 int +2 education = +13 Listen 10r + 4 wis= +14 Profession (Herbalist) 12r +4 wis +2 comp = +18 Research 12r + 4 int + 3 focus +2 comp (+2 historical research or religious) = +21 Ride 10r +1 dex = +11 Search 12r +4 int +2 comp = +18 Sense Motive 12r +4 wis +3 focus +1 diplomat +2 comp = +22 Survival 12r +4 wis (+2 aboveground, +2 avoid hazards, +2 follow tracks) = +16 Languages (all include read/write except Finger Speech): Forsberger (mastery), Jewel Cities (Mastery), Jewel Cities (ancient-Good), Rosean (mastery), Jewel Cities, Opal (Mastery), Finger Speech (fair), TelleKurre (fair), UchiTelle (poor) Feats: Skill Focus (Heal) [B1], Skill Focus (Heal) [B1], Expertise [1], Gift of Tongues [B3], Track [3], Skill Focus (Research) [B4], Skill Focus (Decipher Script) [B6], Improved Init[6], Skill Focus (Sense Motive) [B8], Physician [9], Advanced Healing[12] Equipment: Excellent Medical Kit (Well-Crafted X 2), Stitch’s Armor (Exceptional Full Plate, Fortified X 2 and Thick), Fine Large Iron Shield (Guard), Fine Battleaxe (Sharp), Dagger AC: 21 (-1 to hit for +2 deflection, up to -5 to hit for +5 AC, max AC 28), Touch 11, FF 18 20% Fortification, 1/– DR Battle Axe: +6/+1 att, X 3 crit, dam 1d8+1 Dagger: +6/+1 att, 19-20 crit, dam 1d4 Nightcrawler wizard: Twilight, Nightstalker wizard 12 L Wizard S 13 D 15 Co 17 I 16 W 12 Ch 20 hp 82 Mdt 29 Init +2 Bab +6/+1 F/R/W +7/+8/+9 Background: Magician’s Apprentice (+I to Magic Use, +1 Det Mag and Prest) Skill points: 36+4/99+11 = 150 Skills: (+2 to spoken in Jewel Cities) Bluff 10r +5(ch) +3 (figment) = +18 Concentration 15r +3(co)= +18 Detect Magic 12r +3(in) +3 (Reveal) +2 (magic use) = +20 [Disguise 0r +5 (ch) +3 (Glamer)] = +8 (+10 act in character) Ghost Sound 15r +5 (ch) +2 (bluff)= +22 [Heal 0r +1 (wi) +3 (healing)]= +4 Hide 14hr +2 (dx) +3 (obscure)= +19 Intimidate 15hr=7.5r +5 (ch) +3 (fear) +2 (bluff)=+17 Knowledge (arcane) 15r +3 (in)=+18 Magic Use 15r +3 (in) +5 (ch) +8 (insight) +3 (focus) +2 (Know-arcane)=+36 Move Silently 10hr +2 (dx)=+12 Prestidigitation 15r +5 (ch)=+20 Resistance 15r +3 (co)=+18 [Search 0r +3 (in) +2 (Sense)]= +5 [Spot 0r +1 (wi) +2 (Sense)]= +3 Languages: Jewel Cities (mastery, written), TelleKurre (good, written), Forsberger (Good, written), Rosean (Good, written), (lp=15 (3r)) Feats: SF (Magic Use), Spirit Walk, Talent X 10, Combat Casting, Defy Time, Spell Energy Reservoir X 2, Talent Focus (Obscure) Equipment: Fetishes, Exceptional Light Mace (Crushing for +2 subdual per hit, Double Guard for -2 to att for +2 deflection to AC), Twilight’s Mask (projects 30' radius Twilight effect at all times), Dagger Second Magnitude: +8 insight to Magic Use, 9 spell energy (aptitude=23) Talents: Figment (+2) [1L], Glamer [1Lbonus], Sense [3L], Pattern [5L], Reveal (+2) [5L], Healing [6L], Fear [7L], Create Cold (+2) [9L], Obscure(+7) [11L], Hold [12L] (Save DC 21) Base DC (except Hold, which is 8 lower)=54, Boosted DC=84 (+3 energy), Panic DC=87 (+1 AP) Swift Action DC: DC 23, drain d8+4-E 1 action DC: DC 28, drain d8+5-E 4 action DC: DC 43, drain d8+8-E Prep DC: DC 78 (minutes to 1 hour CT); DC 103 (minutes to 1 day) City Search (Reveal Talent): 15 DC base Props: V, S, Fet; Range: 100 feet (+9) Duration: 1 hour+1 rnd (+20), Mobile sensor +15 = DC 59 8 actions casting time, 1d8+12 drain “Heart Out, 2 points” (Figment Talent): DC 10 base Props: All, Range: 10', Effect: 10' cube, Duration: 1 round, add audible, olfactory (+10)=DC 20 Swift Action casting time, 1d8+4 drain 3 prep spells possible: Lash of Cold (Create Cold Talent): 15 DC base Props: All, Range: 50' (+4), Area: 15' radius (+10), Damage 24d8 = DC 103 1d8+21 drain Cloak of Grey (Obscure Talent): 20 DC base Props: All, Duration: 1 hour (+20), Effect: +30% miss chance (+50) = DC 90 1d8+18 drain Hold It (Hold Talent): 20 DC base Props: All, Range: 100' (+9),  Duration: 15 rnds (+14), Area: 60' radius (+35)  = DC 78 On 11/14/2017 11:34 AM, Matt Cutter via glencook-fans wrote:

Yeah, the book needed one or two more editorial passes.  I don't know if there was ever any errata for it.

Balance was never a goal, though.  The setting itself isn't balanced.

Do you have stats for your

"priest?"  I've done some character generation, but never really seen anyone

else's characters.

I'm not sure 5ED could handle a freeform magic system, but I'd be willing to try.  I wonder if the Adventures in Middle Earth subset of rules (Lord of the Rings, between the Hobbit and the Trilogy, book, no movie)

would be a good basis.

--------------------------------------------

On Wed, 11/8/17, David Ainsworth <Narsham@comcast.net> wrote:

  Subject: Re: [Glencook-fans] Anybody interested in the Black Company Campaign Setting RPG?   To: "Glen Cook: Science Fiction/Fantasy Author" <glencook-fans@mailman.xmission.com>   Date: Wednesday, November 8, 2017, 11:26 PM    

      It's an interesting system, but the magic rules in particular have big problems and are   buggy and poorly proof-read. They aren't consistent within themselves and they also aren't very balanced: you can either be a really minor talent and do next to nothing, or you can be a   modestly leveled wizard throwing 20d6 fireballs as if you were 20th level.           Worse, many examples in the book of calculating spell DCs have some kind of mistake or error, so you can't even rely upon the sample spells some of the time.        

  Extracting magic or restricting it to encounters with

  Taken or the    

    Circle makes the system more playable. There's

  still the problem         that having minor magic is pretty central to the   setting.                     I ran a brief campaign starting with the PCs getting   recruited in         Opal by the Nightstalkers, who were training up prior   to tackling         the Plain of Fear on the way to Rust. The first  

"finale" would

        have featured a confrontation in the sewers below that   city         between the characters, a member of the Circle, the   Nightstalker's         wizard Twilight, and the Faceless Man. If they   survived, they'd         have been agents for the Faceless Man at that point,  

and the next

        campaign would have seen them flown to the Tower at  

Charm for the

        part of the battle there Croaker missed.                     The setting is pretty fantastic and the few missions I   was able to         run went really well, including a run into a ruined  

part of town

        to retrieve a stolen possession which involved a lot   of rooftop         climbing and jumping as a gang attacked them. The   final mission         saw them investigate a lost patrol and stumble across   a "priest"         who turned out to have magical talent, in conjunction   with some         kind of mutated creatures, which would have set up a   mystery         involving someone training minor talents for his own  

purposes.

    I'd be interested to see what a version based on

  5th edition         D&D would look like.                     David        

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