Re: [Glencook-fans] Spoilers for Port of Shadows (initial reaction)
On Thu, Sep 20, 2018 at 9:18 PM, Stacey Harris <stacey.harris@slu.edu> wrote: S P O I L E R S for Port of Shadows S P O I L E R S S P O I L E R S for Port of Shadows S P O I L E R S
Wow. FInished it a few hours ago. Wow.
Okay, I shoulda seen it coming. I was asking myself all along, who/what IS this Mysterious Rain? I can't make head or tails out of it. Shoulda twigged, but > didn't. Just as well, that made it all the more staggering when Laissa greeted her with "Koneko!" and my rudimentary Japanese kicked in to translate that as "Kitten". Wow, all making sense!
That said.
Nice bilingual bonus! I never would catch that. Since none of the back story matches up with Whisper's notes, I wonder what's true. Maybe cleared up by Pitiless Rain?
Yeah, narrative voice is off from the old-style BC books. I thought I caught a whiff of the type of narrative voice from Instrumentalities that I don't much care for (too much mysterious stuff referred to mysteriously); but I'm not clear on that.
Definitely not to be read before "The White Rose"! But I think it might not be a bad thing to have it read then; gives a background explanation for Lady. In > fact...
The feel of ancient sorceries coming to the fore again is nice--a little bit more of what we saw in "Silver Spike". Wish there there descriptions of them. But > even without them it lays the foundation for the Kina and the like, of Really Powerful Stuff having happened in what is now pre-history, as no records have been found of those times (making Travellers' Rest all the more important!). And now we > know why: Sorcerious types go to great lengths to purge those records, even in living memories.
It is a nice tie-in to the world-building. It gives the history more depth. Deep History, if you will. This is a theme Glen visits a lot in his fantasy novels: The Swordbearer, The Tower of Fear, the Dread Empire series. The Star Fishers's SF series visits this theme a lot, too.
Reply below. On 9/21/2018 11:32 AM, Matt Cutter via glencook-fans wrote:
On Thu, Sep 20, 2018 at 9:18 PM, Stacey Harris <stacey.harris@slu.edu> wrote:
S P O I L E R S
for Port of Shadows
S P O I L E R S
S P O I L E R S
for Port of Shadows
S P O I L E R S
Wow. FInished it a few hours ago. Wow.
Okay, I shoulda seen it coming. I was asking myself all along, who/what IS this Mysterious Rain? I can't make head or tails out of it. Shoulda twigged, but > didn't. Just as well, that made it all the more staggering when Laissa greeted her with "Koneko!" and my rudimentary Japanese kicked in to translate that as "Kitten". Wow, all making sense!
That said. Nice bilingual bonus! I never would catch that.
Since none of the back story matches up with Whisper's notes, I wonder what's true. Maybe cleared up by Pitiless Rain? The note at the beginning indicates a suspicion that the papers from the Tower had been altered; the postscript indicates that Imperial historians still don't know which Senjak sister the Lady was. That's highly amusing given how all the baddies in the Books of the South know her true name.
The back story does give me some true name indigestion, though. If Howler and several other Taken were relatives of the Senjak family, why don't they know each other's true names? I'm OK with the sisters knowing (and there's some hints here and there that the family deliberately confused their identities), mostly. Also, given the power of a true name and the relative commonality of sorcery, why in the world does any family ever use someone's true name? The mother and father could select a true name and then employ a use-name from then on; the family name, if it matters, could function likewise. One or two generations of the practice and true names would be nearly impossible to ferret out short of going to the original namers themselves. It also makes me wonder why we don't see someone using Tobo's true name in an attempt to check his worst excesses. Maybe the problem is that everyone capable of doing so is occupied while he's getting out of control--that, and that they need him. David
reply below ________________________________ From: glencook-fans <glencook-fans-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> on behalf of David Ainsworth <Narsham@comcast.net> Sent: Friday, September 21, 2018 12:03 PM To: Glen Cook: Science Fiction/Fantasy Author Subject: Re: [Glencook-fans] Spoilers for Port of Shadows (initial reaction) Reply below. On 9/21/2018 11:32 AM, Matt Cutter via glencook-fans wrote:
On Thu, Sep 20, 2018 at 9:18 PM, Stacey Harris <stacey.harris@slu.edu> wrote:
S P O I L E R S
for Port of Shadows
S P O I L E R S
S P O I L E R S
for Port of Shadows
S P O I L E R S
Wow. FInished it a few hours ago. Wow.
Okay, I shoulda seen it coming. I was asking myself all along, who/what IS this Mysterious Rain? I can't make head or tails out of it. Shoulda twigged, but > didn't. Just as well, that made it all the more staggering when Laissa greeted her with "Koneko!" and my rudimentary Japanese kicked in to translate that as "Kitten". Wow, all making sense!
That said. Nice bilingual bonus! I never would catch that.
Since none of the back story matches up with Whisper's notes, I wonder what's true. Maybe cleared up by Pitiless Rain? The note at the beginning indicates a suspicion that the papers from the Tower had been altered; the postscript indicates that Imperial historians still don't know which Senjak sister the Lady was. That's highly amusing given how all the baddies in the Books of the South know her true name.
The back story does give me some true name indigestion, though. If Howler and several other Taken were relatives of the Senjak family, why don't they know each other's true names? I'm OK with the sisters knowing (and there's some hints here and there that the family deliberately confused their identities), mostly. Also, given the power of a true name and the relative commonality of sorcery, why in the world does any family ever use someone's true name? The mother and father could select a true name and then employ a use-name from then on; the family name, if it matters, could function likewise. One or two generations of the practice and true names would be nearly impossible to ferret out short of going to the original namers themselves. It also makes me wonder why we don't see someone using Tobo's true name in an attempt to check his worst excesses. Maybe the problem is that everyone capable of doing so is occupied while he's getting out of control--that, and that they need him. David _______________________________________________ It would make sense if all the Senjak-and-outlier families routinely muddled True Names from birth, as so many of the family are Talented. The real question, then, is why the four sisters didn't more thoroughly cover their True Names--all they did, it seems, is confuse which was which. (Or maybe that's just a reading from a time--Croaker's present--when those four names had already been uncovered, just with uncertainty over which was which. All the records that Raven translates for us may have been done after those names were uncovered.) Maybe Tobo isn't anything but a use-name; that would be sensible. Does Booboo have a True Name? Surely it's not "Booboo". Maybe Kina chose it? Being a demi-god, she might have that ability. Stacey
I think we've moved outside of spoiler territory now. It's clear Tobo's name is a use name, but I got the strong implication a number of people in the Company knew his true name. Then again, the Buried probably didn't. (I find it hard to believe that Lady didn't do some digging to discover it, though.) As for the Senjak sisters, the main problem may have been a large family in a central spot with relation to the Domination and a bunch of relatives. Certainly, all the evil wizards in the Books of the South know Dorotea's true name (though they seem surprisingly reluctant to make guesses at Soulcatcher's), but there's no evidence anyone else does. Booboo's true name might have been given to her by Narayan Singh. That would make it very hard to uncover, certainly. David On 9/21/2018 3:44 PM, Stacey Harris wrote:
reply below
------------------------------------------------------------------------ *From:* glencook-fans <glencook-fans-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> on behalf of David Ainsworth <Narsham@comcast.net> *Sent:* Friday, September 21, 2018 12:03 PM *To:* Glen Cook: Science Fiction/Fantasy Author *Subject:* Re: [Glencook-fans] Spoilers for Port of Shadows (initial reaction) Reply below.
On 9/21/2018 11:32 AM, Matt Cutter via glencook-fans wrote:
On Thu, Sep 20, 2018 at 9:18 PM, Stacey Harris <stacey.harris@slu.edu> wrote:
S P O I L E R S
for Port of Shadows
S P O I L E R S
S P O I L E R S
for Port of Shadows
S P O I L E R S
Wow. FInished it a few hours ago. Wow.
Okay, I shoulda seen it coming. I was asking myself all along, who/what IS this Mysterious Rain? I can't make head or tails out of it. Shoulda twigged, but > didn't. Just as well, that made it all the more staggering when Laissa greeted her with "Koneko!"   and my rudimentary Japanese kicked in to translate that as "Kitten". Wow, all making sense!
That said. Nice bilingual bonus! I never would catch that.
Since none of the back story matches up with Whisper's notes, I wonder what's true. Maybe cleared up by Pitiless Rain? The note at the beginning indicates a suspicion that the papers from the Tower had been altered; the postscript indicates that Imperial historians still don't know which Senjak sister the Lady was. That's highly amusing given how all the baddies in the Books of the South know her true name.
The back story does give me some true name indigestion, though. If Howler and several other Taken were relatives of the Senjak family, why don't they know each other's true names? I'm OK with the sisters knowing (and there's some hints here and there that the family deliberately confused their identities), mostly.
Also, given the power of a true name and the relative commonality of sorcery, why in the world does any family ever use someone's true name? The mother and father could select a true name and then employ a use-name from then on; the family name, if it matters, could function likewise. One or two generations of the practice and true names would be nearly impossible to ferret out short of going to the original namers themselves.
It also makes me wonder why we don't see someone using Tobo's true name in an attempt to check his worst excesses. Maybe the problem is that everyone capable of doing so is occupied while he's getting out of control--that, and that they need him.
David
_______________________________________________
It would make sense if all the Senjak-and-outlier families routinely muddled True Names from birth, as so many of the family are Talented. The real question, then, is why the four sisters didn't more thoroughly cover their True Names--all they did, it seems, is confuse which was which. (Or maybe that's just a reading from a time--Croaker's present--when those four names had already been uncovered, just with uncertainty over which was which. All the records that Raven translates for us may have been done after those names were uncovered.)
Maybe Tobo isn't anything but a use-name; that would be sensible.
Does Booboo have a True Name? Surely it's not "Booboo". Maybe Kina chose it? Being a demi-god, she might have that ability.
Stacey
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It has been far too long since I read the Books of the South - guess I have an "excuse" now :-) I thought Tobo was definitely a placeholder name, that Sahra wouldn't name him until Murgen was restored and they chose a name together. Then Murgen is rescued from the ice caves and... isn't quite all there. Not sure if failure to be given a True Name means he doesn't have one, of if Tobo ends up his true name by default... On Friday, September 21, 2018, 10:10:20 PM EDT, David Ainsworth <Narsham@comcast.net> wrote: I think we've moved outside of spoiler territory now. It's clear Tobo's name is a use name, but I got the strong implication a number of people in the Company knew his true name. Then again, the Buried probably didn't. (I find it hard to believe that Lady didn't do some digging to discover it, though.) As for the Senjak sisters, the main problem may have been a large family in a central spot with relation to the Domination and a bunch of relatives. Certainly, all the evil wizards in the Books of the South know Dorotea's true name (though they seem surprisingly reluctant to make guesses at Soulcatcher's), but there's no evidence anyone else does. Booboo's true name might have been given to her by Narayan Singh. That would make it very hard to uncover, certainly. David On 9/21/2018 3:44 PM, Stacey Harris wrote: reply below From: glencook-fans <glencook-fans-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> on behalf of David Ainsworth <Narsham@comcast.net> Sent: Friday, September 21, 2018 12:03 PM To: Glen Cook: Science Fiction/Fantasy Author Subject: Re: [Glencook-fans] Spoilers for Port of Shadows (initial reaction) Reply below. On 9/21/2018 11:32 AM, Matt Cutter via glencook-fans wrote:
On Thu, Sep 20, 2018 at 9:18 PM, Stacey Harris <stacey.harris@slu.edu> wrote:
S P O I L E R S
for Port of Shadows
S P O I L E R S
S P O I L E R S
for Port of Shadows
S P O I L E R S
Wow. FInished it a few hours ago. Wow.
Okay, I shoulda seen it coming. I was asking myself all along, who/what IS this Mysterious Rain? I can't make head or tails out of it. Shoulda twigged, but > didn't. Just as well, that made it all the more staggering when Laissa greeted her with "Koneko!" and my rudimentary Japanese kicked in to translate that as "Kitten". Wow, all making sense!
That said. Nice bilingual bonus! I never would catch that.
Since none of the back story matches up with Whisper's notes, I wonder what's true. Maybe cleared up by Pitiless Rain? The note at the beginning indicates a suspicion that the papers from the Tower had been altered; the postscript indicates that Imperial historians still don't know which Senjak sister the Lady was. That's highly amusing given how all the baddies in the Books of the South know her true name.
The back story does give me some true name indigestion, though. If Howler and several other Taken were relatives of the Senjak family, why don't they know each other's true names? I'm OK with the sisters knowing (and there's some hints here and there that the family deliberately confused their identities), mostly. Also, given the power of a true name and the relative commonality of sorcery, why in the world does any family ever use someone's true name? The mother and father could select a true name and then employ a use-name from then on; the family name, if it matters, could function likewise. One or two generations of the practice and true names would be nearly impossible to ferret out short of going to the original namers themselves. It also makes me wonder why we don't see someone using Tobo's true name in an attempt to check his worst excesses. Maybe the problem is that everyone capable of doing so is occupied while he's getting out of control--that, and that they need him. David _______________________________________________ It would make sense if all the Senjak-and-outlier families routinely muddled True Names from birth, as so many of the family are Talented. The real question, then, is why the four sisters didn't more thoroughly cover their True Names--all they did, it seems, is confuse which was which. (Or maybe that's just a reading from a time--Croaker's present--when those four names had already been uncovered, just with uncertainty over which was which. All the records that Raven translates for us may have been done after those names were uncovered.) Maybe Tobo isn't anything but a use-name; that would be sensible. Does Booboo have a True Name? Surely it's not "Booboo". Maybe Kina chose it? Being a demi-god, she might have that ability. Stacey _______________________________________________ glencook-fans mailing list glencook-fans@mailman.xmission.com https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/glencook-fans _______________________________________________ glencook-fans mailing list glencook-fans@mailman.xmission.com https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/glencook-fans
agreed - Tobo is a use name only - thought that was very clearly stated. Port brings up more questions (for me) than answers. am just re-reading the series -now on the Books of the South... will read Port after rereading all the others, and see if the family connections fit better afterwards. -----Original Message----- From: Michele Riccio via glencook-fans <glencook-fans@mailman.xmission.com> To: Glen Cook: Science Fiction/Fantasy Author <glencook-fans@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Sat, Sep 22, 2018 12:02 pm Subject: Re: [Glencook-fans] Spoilers for Port of Shadows (initial reaction) It has been far too long since I read the Books of the South - guess I have an "excuse" now :-) I thought Tobo was definitely a placeholder name, that Sahra wouldn't name him until Murgen was restored and they chose a name together. Then Murgen is rescued from the ice caves and... isn't quite all there. Not sure if failure to be given a True Name means he doesn't have one, of if Tobo ends up his true name by default... On Friday, September 21, 2018, 10:10:20 PM EDT, David Ainsworth <Narsham@comcast.net> wrote: I think we've moved outside of spoiler territory now. It's clear Tobo's name is a use name, but I got the strong implication a number of people in the Company knew his true name. Then again, the Buried probably didn't. (I find it hard to believe that Lady didn't do some digging to discover it, though.) As for the Senjak sisters, the main problem may have been a large family in a central spot with relation to the Domination and a bunch of relatives. Certainly, all the evil wizards in the Books of the South know Dorotea's true name (though they seem surprisingly reluctant to make guesses at Soulcatcher's), but there's no evidence anyone else does. Booboo's true name might have been given to her by Narayan Singh. That would make it very hard to uncover, certainly. David On 9/21/2018 3:44 PM, Stacey Harris wrote: reply below From: glencook-fans <glencook-fans-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> on behalf of David Ainsworth <Narsham@comcast.net> Sent: Friday, September 21, 2018 12:03 PM To: Glen Cook: Science Fiction/Fantasy Author Subject: Re: [Glencook-fans] Spoilers for Port of Shadows (initial reaction) Reply below. On 9/21/2018 11:32 AM, Matt Cutter via glencook-fans wrote: > On Thu, Sep 20, 2018 at 9:18 PM, Stacey Harris > <stacey.harris@slu.edu> wrote: > > > > S > P > O > I > L > E > R > S > > > > for Port of Shadows > > > > S > P > O > I > L > E > R > S > > > > > > S > P > O > I > L > E > R > S > > > > for Port of Shadows > > > > S > P > O > I > L > E > R > S > > > > >> Wow. FInished it a few hours ago. Wow. >> >> Okay, I shoulda seen it coming. I was asking myself all along, who/what IS this Mysterious Rain? I can't make head or tails out of it. Shoulda twigged, but > didn't. Just as well, that made it all the more staggering when Laissa greeted her with "Koneko!" >> and my rudimentary Japanese kicked in to translate that as "Kitten". Wow, all making sense! >> >> That said. > Nice bilingual bonus! I never would catch that. > > Since none of the back story matches up with Whisper's notes, I wonder what's true. Maybe cleared up by Pitiless Rain? The note at the beginning indicates a suspicion that the papers from the Tower had been altered; the postscript indicates that Imperial historians still don't know which Senjak sister the Lady was. That's highly amusing given how all the baddies in the Books of the South know her true name. The back story does give me some true name indigestion, though. If Howler and several other Taken were relatives of the Senjak family, why don't they know each other's true names? I'm OK with the sisters knowing (and there's some hints here and there that the family deliberately confused their identities), mostly. Also, given the power of a true name and the relative commonality of sorcery, why in the world does any family ever use someone's true name? The mother and father could select a true name and then employ a use-name from then on; the family name, if it matters, could function likewise. One or two generations of the practice and true names would be nearly impossible to ferret out short of going to the original namers themselves. It also makes me wonder why we don't see someone using Tobo's true name in an attempt to check his worst excesses. Maybe the problem is that everyone capable of doing so is occupied while he's getting out of control--that, and that they need him. David _______________________________________________ It would make sense if all the Senjak-and-outlier families routinely muddled True Names from birth, as so many of the family are Talented. The real question, then, is why the four sisters didn't more thoroughly cover their True Names--all they did, it seems, is confuse which was which. (Or maybe that's just a reading from a time--Croaker's present--when those four names had already been uncovered, just with uncertainty over which was which. All the records that Raven translates for us may have been done after those names were uncovered.) Maybe Tobo isn't anything but a use-name; that would be sensible. Does Booboo have a True Name? Surely it's not "Booboo". Maybe Kina chose it? Being a demi-god, she might have that ability. Stacey _______________________________________________ glencook-fans mailing list glencook-fans@mailman.xmission.com https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/glencook-fans _______________________________________________ glencook-fans mailing list glencook-fans@mailman.xmission.com https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/glencook-fans _______________________________________________ glencook-fans mailing list glencook-fans@mailman.xmission.com https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/glencook-fans
On Friday, September 21, 2018, 1:04:34 PM EDT, David Ainsworth <Narsham@comcast.net> wrote: Reply below. On 9/21/2018 11:32 AM, Matt Cutter via glencook-fans wrote:
On Thu, Sep 20, 2018 at 9:18 PM, Stacey Harris <stacey.harris@slu.edu> wrote:
S P O I L E R S
for Port of Shadows
S P O I L E R S
S P O I L E R S
for Port of Shadows
S P O I L E R S
<SNIP> Since none of the back story matches up with Whisper's notes, I wonder what's true. Maybe cleared up by Pitiless Rain?
Since every bit of info we get is passed along through at least one other teller/translator - can we trust any "fact"? Croaker's memories are altered by Lady in the Tower. Raven has his own agenda, so he might have left out a few things - ditto for any of the Taken. <SNIP> The back story does give me some true name indigestion, though. If Howler and several other Taken were relatives of the Senjak family, why don't they know each other's true names? I'm OK with the sisters knowing (and there's some hints here and there that the family deliberately confused their identities), mostly. <SNIP> David But how close were the relatives? It could be quite simple to keep distant-cousin Limper from knowing the True Name of your daughter (especially since Croaker(?) implies daughters weren't always named in public records) you simply lie when asked. I had more difficulty with the daughters knowing each others names because I seem to recall either Lady or Soulcatcher saying they had been kept apart and ignorant of each other's names in childhood. The sub plot contradicts that assertion. (I know, I was the one making the 'trust no fact' point a few paragraphs up...) I really enjoyed the sub-plot delving into the Senjak sisters' lives (right up until there were dozens of weird clones). Michele _______________________________________________ glencook-fans mailing list glencook-fans@mailman.xmission.com https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/glencook-fans
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Stacey Harris