re: Qs re higher resolutions w Fractint w a new computer
how would anyone ever be able to tell if a new computer they were ordering would be able to generate fractals with Fractint to the higher resolutions?
About the only sure way that I can think of is to find someone who owns a recent machine that has been shown to create higher resolution fractals under Fractint. Then use Craig's list or eBay to purchase a machine that has that exact video card in it. I know that it is possible to put a second video card into a computer, so in theory one could install an older card that supported the higher resolution DOS video modes into a computer that has a video card that does not support these video modes. Newer computers now have different connectors to plug cards into, so the new machine needs to have a connector compatible with the older video card being installed into the new computer. However, I do not know how to force 'switching' between these video cards -- or if that is even possible in all cases. One other problem with video 'cards' is that often, current computers are manufactured with their video and audio chip sets on the main system board for cost reasons. Being able to 'turn off' these factory built-in functions and to get Windows to recognize a newly-installed card to replace these functions takes detailed knowledge and in some cases cannot be done at all. I note that Sylvie Gallet says that Windows Vista appears to not support the DOS version of Fractint. I pasted her message below my signature. Some good news is that there is a 'Fractint for Windows' being worked on right now and a fairly stable beta is available. It is intended to work on essentially any current computer's video card and on any version of Windows. This is because it writes to the video card using Windows drivers and graphics modes, not DOS graphics modes. The current beta (beta 5) is a first pass at creating a fully windowed version of Fractint. The current user interface is simply the DOS version text windows displayed in their current DOS form with the image being calculated resizing the window as needed. Keyboard commands work normally. The current 'Fractint for Windows' does not have mouse support, but movement of the zoom box and cursors can be done using the arrow keys (with and without the <ctrl> key being held down.) Richard of the Fractint Development Team did a lot of work to get the this functionality working under windows. I myself have not used beta 5 'Fractint for Windows' very much, but judging from the postings on [Fractint] from others, there are people using it successfully. Further development is planned. Richard's FractInt for Windows (Beta 5) 2007-02-18: http://tinyurl.com/2wqa7r You can uninstall beta 4 or you can install beta 5 over top of beta 4. If you install over top, beta 4 will be upgraded to beta 5. The list of known existing bugs in beta 5 Fractint for Windows is:
This file describes known issues in this release, from oldest to newest: There is no sound output support. There is no mouse support. Panning and zooming is by keyboard only.
Video modes with pixel dimensions other than 4/3 aspect ratio assume non-square pixels. The images all render fine, but they appear stretched or squashed. The choice of resolutions in fractint.cfg reflect this.
With debugflag=10000, error messages are reported for disk video mode when: start fractint, pick any disk video mode (e.g. 320x200), let it render, wait for completion, then go to the <v> screen, change 320 to 32, submit it. This problem is present in the DOS fractint.
<\> or <h> or <ctrl-h> just redraws the current image instead of moving backwards through the history buffer.
One other item. You say:
I have a couple of old machines I hang onto just because I can push the resolution, for printing.
Are you familiar with Fractint's Disk 'Video' Modes? These allow you to create high resolution images without them being written to the video card. I use this feature every day to create Jim Muth's Fractal of the Day at a resolution of 1024 x 768 or 1280 x 1024 with DOS Fractint. This feature completely gets around having to have a video card show the image while it is being calculated. My older computer with DOS Fractint will display images this large, but only if they take up the entire screen. The images no longer calculate or are corrupted if I try to shrink the image into a window to allow me to look at email, etc. So I simply use a Fractint Disk 'Video' Mode to calculate my larger images. Since the window showing the image calculation is simply a text status window I am able to shrink it to a small window and read my email, surf the web, etc. When Fractint's status window says, "The image has been completed" I can maximize the window to full screen and save the image and reload it into a visible video mode in DOS Fractint on my older machine. My newer machine would require me to view the large image that I calculated using Disk Video Mode using a different image viewing program. This is not too great a problem since you can keep both the image viewing program and Fractint for Windows open and running at the same time. Fractint's documentation has more information about Disk Video Modes. You can even define your own X and Y resolutions of Disk Video Modes. I have done this and it works well. Please ask me if you have any further questions about Disk Video Mode. Incidentally, I just tested adding a new set of X and Y resolutions in a Disk Video Mode of Richard's beta 5 version of Fractint for Windows. I added 2048 x 1536 pixels. It created the image correctly and I viewed it in an image viewing program. What resolution do you create your images at in order to print them? <---<< Is this info of any use to you? <---<< - Hal Lane ######################### # hallane@earthlink.net # ######################### Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 18:29:56 +0100 From: Sylvie Gallet <sylvie.gallet1@libertysurf.fr> Subject: [Fractint] Fractint (DOS) and Windows Vista To: Liste Fractint <Fractint@mailman.xmission.com> Hi All, I just got a new computer with Windows Vista Home Premium and I'm still in the process of customizing it and installing my favorite softs. Bad news: Fractint for DOS won't run, all I get is an error msg saying "This system does not support fullscreen mode. Choose 'Close'to terminate the application." Cheers, - Sylvie ###################################################### -----Original Message----- From: Kim Hagar [mailto:bkhagar@yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 12:28 PM To: Hal Lane Subject: Re: Did you ever get any replies to your question? No, I didn't, Hal, and was sure hoping to! I have a couple of old machines I hang onto just because I can push the resolution, for printing. My brand new machine at work, which is a REAL work horse, cannot do it! I just don't know how to find out, as you can imagine! As Fractint is one thing I LOVE to work with, I'd really hate to invest in a machine that can't do the job! Funny how newer isn't always better! Thanks! Hope somebody knows! I'll keep looking! Kim Hal Lane <hallane@earthlink.net> wrote:
Kim, Did you ever get any replies to your question?
I discovered that the highest resolution that my new machine will support Fractint at is 640 x 480. :-(
Kim wrote: --------------
I DO want to know, however, how would anyone ever be able to tell if a new computer they were ordering would be able to generate fractals with Fractint to the higher resolutions? I want a new computer but not to detriment!
Thanks for any suggestions!
Kim #########################################################3 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.6.1/778 - Release Date: 4/27/07 1:39 PM
THanks much, Hal! I usually print at 1280 x 1024, which is about as large as I have been able to push. I do not understand the disk video mode, though I've tried it- didn't really know what "happened." Do you allow it to run, then do a SAVE just as you would any other fractal, only sight unseen? I am such a novice, but trying to learn. It was only this year, I guess, that I learned from Paul how to increase my resolution, which I'm very proud of! An old dog CAN learn new tricks! Maybe the video mode is the way to go, and I would be interested in the Windows Fractinct- I guess we've all gotten used to the keyboard commands, so it doesn't bother me that there is no mouse control yet. It would be convenient, but not necessary. Yes, I have one laptop that will create images at a higher resolution, and this desktop. None of my newer machines will do it at work. I was excited to GET a new machine because I thought it would have the capacity. What is really necessary in the card that allows it to do so? Seems like if we knew that, we'd be one step up! I would order in a card if I was building out a machine, specifically so I could run Fractint! Thanks for your help, and any more info you might have to impart! Kim Hal Lane <hallane@earthlink.net> wrote:
how would anyone ever be able to tell if a new computer they were ordering would be able to generate fractals with Fractint to the higher resolutions?
About the only sure way that I can think of is to find someone who owns a recent machine that has been shown to create higher resolution fractals under Fractint. Then use Craig's list or eBay to purchase a machine that has that exact video card in it. I know that it is possible to put a second video card into a computer, so in theory one could install an older card that supported the higher resolution DOS video modes into a computer that has a video card that does not support these video modes. Newer computers now have different connectors to plug cards into, so the new machine needs to have a connector compatible with the older video card being installed into the new computer. However, I do not know how to force 'switching' between these video cards -- or if that is even possible in all cases. One other problem with video 'cards' is that often, current computers are manufactured with their video and audio chip sets on the main system board for cost reasons. Being able to 'turn off' these factory built-in functions and to get Windows to recognize a newly-installed card to replace these functions takes detailed knowledge and in some cases cannot be done at all. I note that Sylvie Gallet says that Windows Vista appears to not support the DOS version of Fractint. I pasted her message below my signature. Some good news is that there is a 'Fractint for Windows' being worked on right now and a fairly stable beta is available. It is intended to work on essentially any current computer's video card and on any version of Windows. This is because it writes to the video card using Windows drivers and graphics modes, not DOS graphics modes. The current beta (beta 5) is a first pass at creating a fully windowed version of Fractint. The current user interface is simply the DOS version text windows displayed in their current DOS form with the image being calculated resizing the window as needed. Keyboard commands work normally. The current 'Fractint for Windows' does not have mouse support, but movement of the zoom box and cursors can be done using the arrow keys (with and without the key being held down.) Richard of the Fractint Development Team did a lot of work to get the this functionality working under windows. I myself have not used beta 5 'Fractint for Windows' very much, but judging from the postings on [Fractint] from others, there are people using it successfully. Further development is planned. Richard's FractInt for Windows (Beta 5) 2007-02-18: http://tinyurl.com/2wqa7r You can uninstall beta 4 or you can install beta 5 over top of beta 4. If you install over top, beta 4 will be upgraded to beta 5. The list of known existing bugs in beta 5 Fractint for Windows is:
This file describes known issues in this release, from oldest to newest: There is no sound output support. There is no mouse support. Panning and zooming is by keyboard only.
Video modes with pixel dimensions other than 4/3 aspect ratio assume non-square pixels. The images all render fine, but they appear stretched or squashed. The choice of resolutions in fractint.cfg reflect this.
With debugflag=10000, error messages are reported for disk video mode when: start fractint, pick any disk video mode (e.g. 320x200), let it render, wait for completion, then go to the screen, change 320 to 32, submit it. This problem is present in the DOS fractint.
<\> or or just redraws the current image instead of moving backwards through the history buffer.
One other item. You say:
I have a couple of old machines I hang onto just because I can push the resolution, for printing.
Are you familiar with Fractint's Disk 'Video' Modes? These allow you to create high resolution images without them being written to the video card. I use this feature every day to create Jim Muth's Fractal of the Day at a resolution of 1024 x 768 or 1280 x 1024 with DOS Fractint. This feature completely gets around having to have a video card show the image while it is being calculated. My older computer with DOS Fractint will display images this large, but only if they take up the entire screen. The images no longer calculate or are corrupted if I try to shrink the image into a window to allow me to look at email, etc. So I simply use a Fractint Disk 'Video' Mode to calculate my larger images. Since the window showing the image calculation is simply a text status window I am able to shrink it to a small window and read my email, surf the web, etc. When Fractint's status window says, "The image has been completed" I can maximize the window to full screen and save the image and reload it into a visible video mode in DOS Fractint on my older machine. My newer machine would require me to view the large image that I calculated using Disk Video Mode using a different image viewing program. This is not too great a problem since you can keep both the image viewing program and Fractint for Windows open and running at the same time. Fractint's documentation has more information about Disk Video Modes. You can even define your own X and Y resolutions of Disk Video Modes. I have done this and it works well. Please ask me if you have any further questions about Disk Video Mode. Incidentally, I just tested adding a new set of X and Y resolutions in a Disk Video Mode of Richard's beta 5 version of Fractint for Windows. I added 2048 x 1536 pixels. It created the image correctly and I viewed it in an image viewing program. What resolution do you create your images at in order to print them? <---<< Is this info of any use to you? <---<< - Hal Lane ######################### # hallane@earthlink.net # ######################### Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 18:29:56 +0100 From: Sylvie Gallet Subject: [Fractint] Fractint (DOS) and Windows Vista To: Liste Fractint Hi All, I just got a new computer with Windows Vista Home Premium and I'm still in the process of customizing it and installing my favorite softs. Bad news: Fractint for DOS won't run, all I get is an error msg saying "This system does not support fullscreen mode. Choose 'Close'to terminate the application." Cheers, - Sylvie ###################################################### -----Original Message----- From: Kim Hagar [mailto:bkhagar@yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 12:28 PM To: Hal Lane Subject: Re: Did you ever get any replies to your question? No, I didn't, Hal, and was sure hoping to! I have a couple of old machines I hang onto just because I can push the resolution, for printing. My brand new machine at work, which is a REAL work horse, cannot do it! I just don't know how to find out, as you can imagine! As Fractint is one thing I LOVE to work with, I'd really hate to invest in a machine that can't do the job! Funny how newer isn't always better! Thanks! Hope somebody knows! I'll keep looking! Kim Hal Lane wrote:
Kim, Did you ever get any replies to your question?
I discovered that the highest resolution that my new machine will support Fractint at is 640 x 480. :-(
Kim wrote: --------------
I DO want to know, however, how would anyone ever be able to tell if a new computer they were ordering would be able to generate fractals with Fractint to the higher resolutions? I want a new computer but not to detriment!
Thanks for any suggestions!
Kim #########################################################3 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.6.1/778 - Release Date: 4/27/07 1:39 PM
--------------------------------- Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
I run a lower screen res to perfect the image, and when I like it, I switch to the higher video mode and it beeps to tell me when it is done, same as image save. I also fiddled around with ultrafractal, found out how to import formulas, so then I felt comfortable buying it- so now I can go even larger with images I like. I had a lot of trouble with the video modes until I ran the makecfg.exe ( I am not sure if that was packaged with fractint 20.0, or I picked it up somewhere along the way 8-10 years ago). I had forgotten about that utility. ( I sort of stopped doing fractals about 6-7 years ago- I had moved, had a drive crash, bought a new computer, and just recently dusted off some CD backups and reinstalled fractint and started playing with some of my images again, but I digress. This makecfg.exe. file read my GEForce card and configured a handful of video modes for my system.... At first glance Ultrafractal seems to have broken the 256 color barrier, which is what I wanted- to have more colors for higher resolution on larger image printing. (I prefer FI for the image exploration/tweaking and UF for the finishing touches) Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: Kim Hagar To: Hal Lane ; Philofractal ; Fractint_msg Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 2:43 PM Subject: [Fractint] re: Qs re higher resolutions w Fractint w a new computer THanks much, Hal! I usually print at 1280 x 1024, which is about as large as I have been able to push. I do not understand the disk video mode, though I've tried it- didn't really know what "happened." Do you allow it to run, then do a SAVE just as you would any other fractal, only sight unseen? I am such a novice, but trying to learn. It was only this year, I guess, that I learned from Paul how to increase my resolution, which I'm very proud of! An old dog CAN learn new tricks! Maybe the video mode is the way to go, and I would be interested in the Windows Fractinct- I guess we've all gotten used to the keyboard commands, so it doesn't bother me that there is no mouse control yet. It would be convenient, but not necessary. Yes, I have one laptop that will create images at a higher resolution, and this desktop. None of my newer machines will do it at work. I was excited to GET a new machine because I thought it would have the capacity. What is really necessary in the card that allows it to do so? Seems like if we knew that, we'd be one step up! I would order in a card if I was building out a machine, specifically so I could run Fractint! Thanks for your help, and any more info you might have to impart! Kim Hal Lane <hallane@earthlink.net> wrote: >how would anyone ever be able to tell >if a new computer they were ordering would be able to generate fractals >with Fractint to the higher resolutions? About the only sure way that I can think of is to find someone who owns a recent machine that has been shown to create higher resolution fractals under Fractint. Then use Craig's list or eBay to purchase a machine that has that exact video card in it. I know that it is possible to put a second video card into a computer, so in theory one could install an older card that supported the higher resolution DOS video modes into a computer that has a video card that does not support these video modes. Newer computers now have different connectors to plug cards into, so the new machine needs to have a connector compatible with the older video card being installed into the new computer. However, I do not know how to force 'switching' between these video cards -- or if that is even possible in all cases. One other problem with video 'cards' is that often, current computers are manufactured with their video and audio chip sets on the main system board for cost reasons. Being able to 'turn off' these factory built-in functions and to get Windows to recognize a newly-installed card to replace these functions takes detailed knowledge and in some cases cannot be done at all. I note that Sylvie Gallet says that Windows Vista appears to not support the DOS version of Fractint. I pasted her message below my signature. Some good news is that there is a 'Fractint for Windows' being worked on right now and a fairly stable beta is available. It is intended to work on essentially any current computer's video card and on any version of Windows. This is because it writes to the video card using Windows drivers and graphics modes, not DOS graphics modes. The current beta (beta 5) is a first pass at creating a fully windowed version of Fractint. The current user interface is simply the DOS version text windows displayed in their current DOS form with the image being calculated resizing the window as needed. Keyboard commands work normally. The current 'Fractint for Windows' does not have mouse support, but movement of the zoom box and cursors can be done using the arrow keys (with and without the key being held down.) Richard of the Fractint Development Team did a lot of work to get the this functionality working under windows. I myself have not used beta 5 'Fractint for Windows' very much, but judging from the postings on [Fractint] from others, there are people using it successfully. Further development is planned. Richard's FractInt for Windows (Beta 5) 2007-02-18: http://tinyurl.com/2wqa7r You can uninstall beta 4 or you can install beta 5 over top of beta 4. If you install over top, beta 4 will be upgraded to beta 5. The list of known existing bugs in beta 5 Fractint for Windows is: >This file describes known issues in this release, from oldest to newest: >There is no sound output support. >There is no mouse support. Panning and zooming is by keyboard only. >Video modes with pixel dimensions other than 4/3 aspect ratio assume >non-square pixels. The images all render fine, but they appear stretched >or squashed. The choice of resolutions in fractint.cfg reflect this. >With debugflag=10000, error messages are reported for disk video mode when: >start fractint, pick any disk video mode (e.g. 320x200), >let it render, wait for completion, then go to the screen, >change 320 to 32, submit it. This problem is present in the DOS fractint. ><\> or or just redraws the current image instead of moving >backwards through the history buffer. One other item. You say: > I have a couple of old machines I hang onto just because > I can push the resolution, for printing. Are you familiar with Fractint's Disk 'Video' Modes? These allow you to create high resolution images without them being written to the video card. I use this feature every day to create Jim Muth's Fractal of the Day at a resolution of 1024 x 768 or 1280 x 1024 with DOS Fractint. This feature completely gets around having to have a video card show the image while it is being calculated. My older computer with DOS Fractint will display images this large, but only if they take up the entire screen. The images no longer calculate or are corrupted if I try to shrink the image into a window to allow me to look at email, etc. So I simply use a Fractint Disk 'Video' Mode to calculate my larger images. Since the window showing the image calculation is simply a text status window I am able to shrink it to a small window and read my email, surf the web, etc. When Fractint's status window says, "The image has been completed" I can maximize the window to full screen and save the image and reload it into a visible video mode in DOS Fractint on my older machine. My newer machine would require me to view the large image that I calculated using Disk Video Mode using a different image viewing program. This is not too great a problem since you can keep both the image viewing program and Fractint for Windows open and running at the same time. Fractint's documentation has more information about Disk Video Modes. You can even define your own X and Y resolutions of Disk Video Modes. I have done this and it works well. Please ask me if you have any further questions about Disk Video Mode. Incidentally, I just tested adding a new set of X and Y resolutions in a Disk Video Mode of Richard's beta 5 version of Fractint for Windows. I added 2048 x 1536 pixels. It created the image correctly and I viewed it in an image viewing program. What resolution do you create your images at in order to print them? <---<< Is this info of any use to you? <---<< - Hal Lane ######################### # hallane@earthlink.net # ######################### Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 18:29:56 +0100 From: Sylvie Gallet Subject: [Fractint] Fractint (DOS) and Windows Vista To: Liste Fractint Hi All, I just got a new computer with Windows Vista Home Premium and I'm still in the process of customizing it and installing my favorite softs. Bad news: Fractint for DOS won't run, all I get is an error msg saying "This system does not support fullscreen mode. Choose 'Close'to terminate the application." Cheers, - Sylvie ###################################################### -----Original Message----- From: Kim Hagar [mailto:bkhagar@yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 12:28 PM To: Hal Lane Subject: Re: Did you ever get any replies to your question? No, I didn't, Hal, and was sure hoping to! I have a couple of old machines I hang onto just because I can push the resolution, for printing. My brand new machine at work, which is a REAL work horse, cannot do it! I just don't know how to find out, as you can imagine! As Fractint is one thing I LOVE to work with, I'd really hate to invest in a machine that can't do the job! Funny how newer isn't always better! Thanks! Hope somebody knows! I'll keep looking! Kim Hal Lane wrote: >>Kim, Did you ever get any replies to your question? >>I discovered that the highest resolution that my >>new machine will support Fractint at is 640 x 480. :-( Kim wrote: -------------- >>>I DO want to know, however, how would anyone ever be able to tell >>>if a new computer they were ordering would be able to generate fractals >>>with Fractint to the higher resolutions? I want a new computer but not to >>>detriment! >>>Thanks for any suggestions! >>>Kim #########################################################3 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.6.1/778 - Release Date: 4/27/07 1:39 PM ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Fractint mailing list Fractint@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fractint
participants (3)
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Hal Lane -
Kim Hagar -
Paul Kyle