David,
Then let her criticize what is ACTUALLY the problem and not pepper it with the fictionalized version which certainly has a certain audience in mind. I'm fine with folks criticizing the errors in Mormon culture, as long as they don't create it into a mythology in which the big fish keeps getting bigger and bigger. Truth is always a better touch stone for truth than half-truths. So let us support those voices that are more honest and give less attention to those who use sensationalism and yellow journalsim to stoke the fire.
--Mahonri
David Pace <dcpace1025@???> wrote: Michael,
Perhaps I misread your comment. Here's my main point. Many people dismissed Beck's legitimate critique of Utah and Mormon culture because of the abuse claims. I believe that even if the abuse didn't happen as she claims, it could have easily happened based on the legitimate critique of the culture she gave, and gave compellingly. Granted, her book is a cautionary tale about how a brilliant and astute observer and writer can allow hubris to derail her: publishing the story of the ritual sexual abuse by her (now) aging father was not a healing act for anyone, in my view.
As far as her book being part of a needed discussion about Mormon fundamentalist (not polygamist) tendencies, that conversation has only been happening in intra-Mormon groups (for example Sunstone, and. . . this discussion group ?) The value of her book is that its audience was potentially broader (Random House), an audience that animates who we are more than we are willing to admit. The value of her book was that it could have helped position for Mormons their faith and culture in a broader context where we could potentially and usefully address the darker side of our tradition. The potential value of her book was that it could have been an opportunity to reflect on and heal our community instead of being yet another witch to burn so that we could all feel justified that our persecution made us "right." The LDS mob mentality that emerged around the pre-publication of the book was abominable, including the actions of Stephen R. Covey, and I admire the fact
that you seem to have had more sense than to start throwing stones before you reflected on what was happening.
Maybe you didn't dismiss Martha Beck's "Leaving the Saints," but I think it's wrongheaded to say the book isn't important, that it isn't valuable to our community in some ways as a legitimate critique of what I've called elsewhere our "provincial lunacies." The value of her book doesn't turn only on whether her claims of abuse are true. I recommend it to Mormons of all stripes.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: D. Michael Martindale
To: AML Discussion List
Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2006 5:25 PM
Subject: Re: [AML] Beck, Leaving the Saints
David Pace wrote:
> I beg to differ. The kind of bluntness that you exhibit does violence
> not so much to Martha Beck but to the conversation about how religious
> fundamentalism in the LDS community destroys people's lives because it
> fuses family with faith and faith with authority. I think we must talk
> about it because it's a chronic problem in Mormon culture. Martha
> attempted to enter that conversation, did it badly and for motivations
> that were suspect, in my view. But that doesn't mean that the critical
> eye she cast on Utah Valley Mormonism in the 70s, 80s and 90s isn't an
> important conversation to have. Frankly, the mentality of a mob that
> emerged in the LDS community in reaction to the book before it even
> published suggested that we have something profound to hide.
You're preaching to the choir, Dave, but Martha Beck's spurious
accusations toward her father have nothing to do with this issue. Aside
form the "women-good-men-bad nonsense," this is another social
phenomenon that drives me nuts: taking a legitimate criticism of
something and turning it into a criticism of some social issue that may
or may not have much connection with the original subject. This is the
phenomenon that causes people who legitimately criticize something a
Black or a Jew or a Gay says or does to be condemned as a racist,
anti-Semite, or homophobe.
Martha Beck's accusatons are without support, and that has nothing to do
with whitewashing the problems in Mormon culture. Moi, D. Michael
Martindale, trying to whitewash Mormon culture???? [hysterical laughter]
> The reaction of most LDS,
> including your own, suggests a shouting down of discourse, which in the
> end hurts everyone except those that abuse, those that obfuscate and
> those that dissemble. Are we looking for the truth or are we just
> looking for validation?
This is an insult to me. I never did any such thing. I've held back
comment and judgment for quite some time after this book came out. The
comment I made recently was the first significant one I ever made about
Beck, and it was only after listening to many sides of the issue and
thoughtfully assessing the evidence.
Plus, I defy anyone to give one single example if when I ever shouted
anyone down. I express my opinions in strong, sometimes caustic
language, but I never shout a blessed soul down. I speak my piece, then
sit back and let everyone say what they have to say about it. Then I
respond. I think that's called dialog, not shouting down.
> However valuable her book was (and I believe
> it is valuable), Beck was guilty of the latter--only looking for
> validation, more precisely, perhaps, revenge. Are we as well? Does our
> reaction to her just re-enact her crime?
No, because everyone has given her plenty of leeway to possibly be
right. That was one of the things that was frustrating me and evoked my
comment--I think everyone's giving her too much leeway. I think far more
than enough precincts have now turned in their results to be able to
call this race.
> I think the LDS community deserves her book because it gives us an
> opportunity to address something that profoundly needs to be addressed.
> Dismissing it out of hand doesn't work for me, and I don't think it
> should work for anyone who claims to care about their own people.
I already discussed the offensive accusation of dismissing her--which I
never did. But no, sir, we do NOT need this book. We do NOT need a book
full of lies and distortions to start any legitimate discussion.
Besides, that discussion has already been going on long before Martha
popped on the scene--we don't need to start anything. I know--I've been
part of that discussion for years.
--
D. Michael Martindale
dmichael@???
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