I have always had a tough time thinking of other people as "self-deceived."
It implies that I am not. I approached a man as a missionary who looked me
straight in the eye and told me that the Holy Ghost had told him his church
was true. He, as do we Mormons, consider that the end of the discussion. We
have testimonies from the right source -- all others testimonies disagreeing
with ours come from some other source. We seem uncomfortable nowadays
suggesting that others are deceived by Satan but it's okay to suggest
"self-deception."
Aren't we all "self-deceived" to some degree? It seems to me that as long as
the proofs of the Gospel's truths continue to exist only in our subjective
feelings (as opposed to objective truth that others, nonbelievers,
especially, would be forced to give credence to), we have to least wonder on
occasion if we are not deceiving ourselves. We really only know what "we"
know. not what others know. We seem to be able to profess undeviating
confidence in our own perceptions of reality but can't quite grant that
possibility to others' with whom we may disagree.
Martha may well be up in the night. It is also possible, and not without
precedence, that she speaks the truth and the rest of her family is in
denial. I don't think there is a way to ever determine for sure who's right
and who's wrong. I've stated my ambivalence about recovered memory. I used
to disbelieve them until my ex "had" one that seemed to explain everything
about our failed marriage. To this day, I'm not certain that her failed
memory was real of whether she created it in order to give her a reason for
leaving a marriage she could no longer deal with. Is Martha's recovered
memory a psychologically induced protective mechanism or a remembrance of
things past? How can we ever know?
But, as David Pace suggested in another post on this subject, we can't let
our natural tendency to discount uncomfortable stories about our icons
prevent us from discussing the reality that, even in our community, things
as heinous as what Beck suggests DO occur. At the same time, it is not wise
to assume that every story of sexual abuse is true. Careful study and
patience seem to be the best tools to use in dissecting the truth of these
matters. if we can every find the truth at all.
Thom Duncan replies to:
_____
From: aml-list-bounces+thomduncan=gmail.com@???
[mailto:aml-list-bounces+thomduncan=gmail.com@???] On
Behalf Of Mahonri Stewart
Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2006 10:01 AM
To: AML Discussion List
Subject: Re: [AML] Beck, Leaving the Saints
I think "lying through her teeth" and "lost all touch with reality" are both
very legitimate options with Martha Beck. Or perhaps self-deception.
The Nibley family is quite a diverse group these days. From the faithful to
the agnostic to the apostate. I was friends with one of his
grand-daughters-- a lovely, intelliegent, honest girl, a good person, but
totally disconnected from the Church and a belief in Christ (although she
certainly had some mystical beliefs last I checked-- including experiences
astro-planing). I was rather sad to lose touch with her.
--Mahonri
"D. Michael Martindale" <dmichael@???> wrote:
I'm baffled by everyone's efforts to bend over backwards with diplomacy
toward Martha Beck. So let me do what I am famous for: telling it
straight out with bluntness and clarity.
Martha Beck is either lying through her teeth or lost all touch with
reality. Or a combination of both. All the evidence supports that
conclusion, and she has none to support her accusations.
Period, end of story.
We need to get past this feminist-induced idiocy that men are always
demons and women can do no wrong. I have a close friend who right now is
being threatened with loss of his membership, and to a large extent
it's because of this insane bias against men. I have intimate knowledge
of the details of his circumstances and I know that he does not merit
what's happening to him any more than Hugh Nibley merited what his
daughter did to him.
--
D. Michael Martindale
dmichael@???
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